Topic: kiss the 1100 goodbye

[ofreen]

i'll agree with you there! it's unfortunate the bigger is better mentality often prevails. although it was swayed- if just a bit, small still is equated with cheap. and i don't mean the good kinda cheap.
(snip)
i think momentum can be built upon the slow shift away from the simplistic view that small=bad.

I think there is more limiting the market for small bikes than that.  Sure, zipping around small bikes is fun (my CB125S is a blast), but I don't want to travel, or even commute, on a bike that is turning 6000+ RPM at 60mph.  Or have to change down a few gears and rev the rings out of it to pass a truck on a grade.  Or try to haul a passenger and gear with a 400.  Sure it can be done (I used to tour on an SL350), but it is hardly optimum.  Bigger is better quite a lot (most?) of the time.   When talking about size, I am talking about engine displacement, not chassis bulk.  I am not arguing for Cadillacs and Goldwings.  I see a lot of scoffing at the "bigger is better mentality", but there are good reasons why it is that way.  Unless all the motorcycle is to a person is a utilitarian tool for getting around on short trips.  Then why not just get a 50cc scooter and be done with it?

[6pkrunner]

The 919 was a flop because people didn't buy it. Why didn't they? Where did the market research go so wrong? I for one never liked the looks of it, but to carte blanche say that naked or UJM bikes are no longer desired is totally off base. The 1100 may cast a similar shadow but the bikes are nothing the same. And if Honda's market research group can't tell the difference - then they are going to lose more sales.

And I'd have to say distances in North America are the differences between small and large bikes. It's nothing to put 200, 300 or even 400 miles on in a day. Not too much fun on a 250, 400, or 500cc machine. To swallow large distances in relative comfort requires something that can hold 70 or more mph all day and not be buffeted by crosswinds or other traffic. Bulk and mass make the job easier. But for city squirting the smaller bikes are  hoot.

[Ecosse]

ofreen and 6pkrunner, i must be losing it.... you brought up something i have rattled on about to anyone who will listen and i missed it here. the us doesn't follow the 'progressive' and eco-friendly low carbon world view and flock to small vehicles because we're selfish you know whats. well, at least no worse than anyone else. so much of what has shaped what we drive/ride is our geography... and an economy that tends to out pace others at any given time. if the uk had the lower taxes, big open roads, etc... they'd be just as evil as we! 

funny, i just had this conversation with a buddy today. who wants to ride a 250 even on the relatively short highways of massachusetts? even our side roads are kinda wide open. but.... i think there's still room for something other than 140 hp crotch rockets and cruiser bikes so big they need a reverse gear. around here, college town, scooters are big! maybe a future generation will not be so dismissive of having at least a second bike in the barn for in town jaunts.

that's why i say offer a standard in more than 1100cc's and it has a shot.

[ofreen]

that's why i say offer a standard in more than 1100cc's and it has a shot.

Well, the air-cooled 1200 Bandit sold here for years and is a very good bike.  Hell of a bike for the money, torque-monster, bullet proof engine with good aftermarket support, easily upgradable if stock didn't suit you.  Good fuel mileage if you used a little restraint.  Comfortable.  I always thought if my 750 ever wore out, I'd get one for a commuter scooter.  However, I used to go into dealerships and see new two year-old bikes still on the showroom floor.  The new liquid-cooled bike is not doing any better.  How about the SV1000?  A great bike by any measure.  Except sales.  Remember the VX800?  If you ever get the chance to ride one, take it.  Better roll-on numbers than a FJ1200.  But it was a sales flop, too.  The same thing with a Z-REX, there is no more entertaining bike to ride.  Gone now.  The manufactures cannot fail to notice these things.

Ecosse, I hope it doesn't seem like I am picking on your posts.  I wish there was a little more diversity in the American market, too.  But I don't think the manufacturers are to be blamed for being a little gun-shy at this point.

[Ecosse]

Ecosse, I hope it doesn't seem like I am picking on your posts.  I wish there was a little more diversity in the American market, too.  But I don't think the manufacturers are to be blamed for being a little gun-shy at this point.

no man not at all. as far as i'm concerned you certainly know what you're talking about and in no way do i think this thread has gone ugly, well... havoc's avatar excepted. personally, i think the answer lies within all the opinions voiced so far. bottom line is we're not getting a really cool bike or it's sister.

[6pkrunner]

  I wish there was a little more diversity in the American market, too.  But I don't think the manufacturers are to be blamed for being a little gun-shy at this point.

I have to agree. I guess at this point in life our demographic footprint isn't large enough to warrant another attempt for the naked bike. Shame - its either plastic bubbles or Harley clones. But manufacturers have to follow the money and if that's where it is, so be it. A lot of great bikes are getting passed over.

[SteveD CB500F]

Don't you get Speed and Street Triples over there?

Best "naked" on the market and absolutely cleaning up over here!

[tramp]

that is a good looking bike
the 919 would have sold better with a better looking tank
and don't forget the 919 only came in one color a year, lots of choices there

[333]

One thing I think hurt the 919 and bikes like it is the "sport" aspect.  Yes, speed sells, but many of us want a true UJM.  And for me, that means sitting straight up(and my feet right below, not out in front of me).  The 919 puts you leaning forward more like a sport bike than a UJM.  Us GHOFs with bad backs just can't do that.

As far as the "bigger is better" thing, yes a decent sized bike is nice for those long days on the highway, but how much of that do we really do?  A huge majority of our daily travel is around town.  To and from work, trips to the store, other errands.  I used to weekend about 1.5 hours from home, and did the trip on my CB125S a few times.  By choice!  I have done a few poker runs on it as well.  Yes, I had a little trouble keeping up, but when can you run a bike all out and not attract the attention of the police?

[HavocTurbo]

Ecosse, I hope it doesn't seem like I am picking on your posts.  I wish there was a little more diversity in the American market, too.  But I don't think the manufacturers are to be blamed for being a little gun-shy at this point.

no man not at all. as far as i'm concerned you certainly know what you're talking about and in no way do i think this thread has gone ugly, well... havoc's avatar excepted. personally, i think the answer lies within all the opinions voiced so far. bottom line is we're not getting a really cool bike or it's sister.

Lol are you implying that I am bringing down the aesthetic appeal of this thread and all threads by association??


You sir.....


Would be correct!! 

[j-conn]

i'll throw 2 cents in...
i grew up in indonesia and i know it to be true in most of the world (asia at least). they have cc caps in alot of countries. you have countries like indo (5/4th most pop) and bangladesh (3rd soon to be 2nd i think) and there is a cc cap . my thought would be the manufactures pov is who cares about the x number of bigger cc bikes that will be sold in the us/euro/japan ect. thats just a drop in the bucket.

[333]

Yes, but comparing the U.S. with the rest of the world isn't fair.  Only in America are motorcycles considered recreational.  The rest of the world truly uses bikes for transportation.

[j-conn]

Only in America are motorcycles considered recreational.  The rest of the world truly uses bikes for transportation.

i agree... for the most part. there are rich people with more money than they know what to do with in every country...
why is it unfair to compare US?
i dont know if i even was. maybe just contrasting.

[UnCrash]

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/02january08_honda_cb1100f.htm



When it hit the floor at the Tokyo Motor Show last year, the Honda CB1100F looked like much more than a concept. With its engine acting as a stressed member of the chassis, and its engine an all-new air-cooled design (that allows air between the two middle cylinders of the inline four), this looked a lot like a future production model.

MCN in England is reporting that the bike will go into production in 2009, and will immediately be available in the U.S. market that year. I can hear our baby-boomer readers rejoicing right now!

[nickjtc]

Man, that  is a good looking motorcycle. Probably a b#gg@r to clean, but what the hey!

I'm in the process of clearing out my 'stuff' and have been reading through my old magazines. In a "Cycle" (remember that one?) from 1966 the biggest bike on test was the newly launched Honda CB450. The rest of the mag was full of ads and reviews for bikes up to 250 from all kinds of obscure manufacturers. And in several of the ads the manufacturer is describing their 250 as a 'tourer'.

Did riders not want to go distances in those days? Was the popularity and huge variety of models because these smaller bikes were so much less expensive than the Harleys, Triumphs, BSAs or what-not?

My biggest regret about todays whole North American 'bigger must be better' ideology is that as an instructor I see novice riders jumping on machines that are totally inappropriate for their riding skill. I am quiet impressed that the new Ninja 250 has proven to be the big seller it is.

[Ecosse]

Only in America are motorcycles considered recreational.  The rest of the world truly uses bikes for transportation.

i agree... for the most part. there are rich people with more money than they know what to do with in every country...
why is it unfair to compare US?
i dont know if i even was. maybe just contrasting.

I could be wrong but it does seem that for whatever reason many, if not all, other countries with a notable bike population regard bikes as something more than a recreation vehicle- a generalization for sure but not far off the mark. The darn Brits ride in weather I wouldn't dream of! Ya got moxie brothers and sisters.

[6pkrunner]

Much like the falling auto industry the huge profit margins come from the big bikes. While having no factual motorcycle data in front of me, I'll wager it would take nearly 60-80, or more of the Asia bound cc capped bikes to rival the profits of one sport bike sold in North America.
The Big 3 in Detroit based their future off of that creed and of course they lost, but it shows that the profits are so huge for the SUV (large motorcycle) that they abandoned all other avenues. Clip all workers and lines to supply the lower models and cruise of immense profits. Unfortunately all eggs should never be in one basket unless you can private jet to Congress and ask "Please sirs, can I have some more"

[kpier883]

...
Did riders not want to go distances in those days? Was the popularity and huge variety of models because these smaller bikes were so much less expensive than the Harleys, Triumphs, BSAs or what-not?

Maybe before the interstate system was complete, the roads were traveled more slowly and with more stops as you went through towns and such.  Today, for long distances, you generally use the interstate system.  So you need the capability to run 75 mph or more to stay with most traffic, and you need some extra oomph to pass even at that speed. 

[754]

Part of the problem , acording to 754..

In America, you can travel through a different state every day, and not be finished in a  month..

In Europe, if you ride all day you can easily pass through 3 countries 

[HavocTurbo]

Part of the problem , acording to 754..

In America, you can travel through a different state every day, and not be finished in a  month..

In Europe, if you ride all day you can easily pass through 3 countries 

ROFL way to "quote" yourself.... I like it!! 

So much so that I agree with you.

[Ecosse]

...In America, you can travel through a different state every day, and not be finished in a  month..

And if it's on a new Honda you'll be doing it on a pensioner's Gold Wing, an Asian Harley, or something that looks like every other plastic missile out there... available in as many as two colors!

[HavocTurbo]

...In America, you can travel through a different state every day, and not be finished in a  month..

And if it's on a new Honda you'll be doing it on a pensioner's Gold Wing, an Asian Harley, or something that looks like every other plastic missile out there... available in as many as two colors!

Don't forget the airbags..... Woman's ..... um.... not included.

[upperlake04]

Only in America are motorcycles considered recreational.  The rest of the world truly uses bikes for transportation.

 I don't.  I think that statement is generalized BS.

 

[Joel]

I'm disappointed.  This was the only bike other than the Buell Lightnings that would've seriously interested me in a new bike.  The style of the 70s CBs is one of the main reasons I'm interested in them.  I hope Honda will reconsider.

[tramp]

the rep told me they couldn't sell the 919 so they figured the 1100 won't sell here either
for some reason they seem to think it will sell overseas better