Topic: 21 inch cafe?

[Industrial Cafe]

is it so ridiculous?
has anyone ever seen this?
i wanna try it, to see what it'd look like on a cb750 cafe bike

i stuffed together a list of mods:
4 inch stretch swing arm
112 or so link chain
tall shocks to compensate for the length of the swingarm or relocate the mounting points
long spokes (dunno where to get spokes for a 21 inch wheel to a cb750 hub)
and a 21x2.25 inch rim

heres what gave me the idea

oh god thats sexy

 

[scunny]

yep that is nice. go for it and post pics please

[Soos]

Looks nice there...
That bike looks like it's set up for nothing more than WOT on a nice road or the salt flats.




l8r

[void909]

I absolutely love that bike.

[ProTeal55]

I did a 21'' front wheel on my old CB750 --->

The next bike I build (that will actually run under it's own power) will def. be more of a board tracker setup, with either as 23'' front and 21'' rear or something
along those lines.. That bike above is def. sweet. Gotta give a bike props for looking like it's going fast when it's standing still...

[greenjeans]

saw that bike last year in Vegas...incredible workmanship in person.  Front brake is a 1-off drum machined out of aluminum  etc. etc. etc.
Buchanons can make spokes for you

[754]

Those are 23" rims, but it gives you an idea of what 21,s will look like.
21,s might not be very wide rubber as 23s come failrly wide.

We went to see that guy last Monday, he started it up inside.. , loud beast it is.

 It has been on the salt twice, has hit 160mph.. on 1 cylinder.

[crazypj]

What size is the cylinder though?
Guy I work with was building a 890cc Buell Blast motor, haven't heard anything about it for a while though (course' it don't vibrate much) 
 Personally, I think 21" or 23" works well with a narrow V-twin or single, vintage style motor for vintage style bike, but, on an across the frame inline four................................nope!
 If you want different, cut off the transmission and turn engine sideways 
PJ

[ProTeal55]

Personally, I think 21" or 23" works well with a narrow V-twin or single, vintage style motor for vintage style bike, but, on an across the frame inline four................................nope!

I def. agree.
Skinny wheels look best on twins, where wider tires look best on inline 4's.

[Geeto67]

what's the point? it certainly isn't to improve the way the bike functions as a bike. Are you going to run bonneville like the owner of that sreamliner HD based bike does? You are going to spend a lot of money setting that up just to have a bike that maybe looks cool (depends on how you do it) but works crap as a motorcycle. That bike you posted a pic of was built with a purpose (LSR), what is your purpose? to look cool? to be different? So ask yourself are you a modern artist or a motorcyclist? because with one of these types of projects you really can't be both.

I want you to take a real hard look at the level of craftsmanship in that bike you posted a pic of and ask yourself - are my fabrication skills on par that I could build that. Not do I want my fabrication skills to be that good someday but could you actually go out and crank that out in your garage right now. Because the mods you are leaving out of your little initial list are:

Custom (sub) frame - what you though a 21" rear wheel was going to fit the stock frame and still have some semblance of suspension travel? - you are taking 1.5 inches out of the suspension just by going that big in the first place. You don't have to touch the engine cradle but at full bottom out that rear tire is going to be 1" into your seat pan.

Custom rear bodywork - gotta cover that custom rear section somehow, plus you need a place to sit

BTW, where are you going to find a rear tire for a 21 rim that isn't a dirtbike tire or a converted front? she gonna look really funny with a 100 or 110 rear tire on there.

[Industrial Cafe]

thats why i posted, to get some opinions.
the point is for looks, and I guess I do consider myself a modern artist as well as a motorcyclist.
that's why God made more than one motorcycle Geeto. So you can do yours up how you want it, and I can do mine in the most ridiculous fashion possible.
I have free roam of a machine shop too, so the fabbing is no big deal.


and yes, it will probably handle like crap after that, but I think it'll look cool.
I can always put my 16 back if I don't like it.



does anyone have pics or a video of that bike? these are the only one i got and i wanna see more.

[greenjeans]

roger goldhammer  - when I saw the bike it was still in bare metal - just with the painted rims.  And yes, it is a single cylinder.....takes a while
to notice.  The craftmanship on the metal work was great.   It didn't need paint.

http://www.goldammercycle.com/hispeed/gallery.php?g=0

Don't let Geeto get to ya....everybody has their way.  He does make good points, but  I'd like to consider myself more an artist as well. 
My projects may not be as practical, but they will always look good to me.   I have a "normal" cycle to ride when conditions warrant.

Good luck with your build

[Industrial Cafe]

thanks greenjeans, i have a "normal bike" too
his name is Drago (pronounced draw-go) from Russia. my ratbike

[greenjeans]

My buddy sells a 200  in a 21"  since you're gonna need a new swing arm, these might work.... might have more sizes than what is listed...but check here:  https://www.fullerhotrods.com/CART/Default.aspx?CategoryID=2

[Geeto67]

thats why i posted, to get some opinions.
the point is for looks, and I guess I do consider myself a modern artist as well as a motorcyclist.
that's why God made more than one motorcycle Geeto. So you can do yours up how you want it, and I can do mine in the most ridiculous fashion possible.
I have free roam of a machine shop too, so the fabbing is no big deal.


and yes, it will probably handle like crap after that, but I think it'll look cool.
I can always put my 16 back if I don't like it.

A motorcycle is a purpose built creation. The best custom motorcycles are ones that are built with a purpose in mind and then styling is added to that. It isn't a motorcycle if it doesn't function - it is sclupture. Is there a reason roger goldammer would run such a narrow tall wheel on the back of that bike? well one could easily say that the taller the wheel the more effect it has on gearing. Same applies to the width of the tire and running on salt, since the top layer of salt is loose pack the more weight you can get into your contact patch the better. Whiel I cetrainly can't argue that he made the final package pretty - everything has a function to serve as well and that is what makes it a great bike.

With regard to this bike - since looks are your only purpose for running such a large rim in the rear then are you really building a motorcycle or are you building a sculpture? you may consider your self a motorcyclist with regard to other bikes but in regard to this project the primary end result is not to function like a motorcycle. Could very well be pretty when it is done, and you could be talented enough to pull it off, who know, all I can tell you from your post is that your estimation as to what will do the job or what will do it right is severly lacking.

And that is why god made opinions also...so when you say "I think it will look cool" and I say "it is a stupid idea" we can both be right.

[greenjeans]

And that is why god made opinions also...so when you say "I think it will look cool" and I say "it is a stupid idea" we can both be right.
[/quote]

Amen brother.   Most of my stupid ideas generally turn out lookin' "cool"  at least in my eyes

[Industrial Cafe]

 The list was just a start of the idea, I thought of it as I was typing it out. sure there's tons more than just that.
 But, what if I did get away with just those parts? Wouldn't that be amazing?
wouldn't you poop your pants and say "you only spent 400 bucks to do that?"

 I like Geeto, I'm gonna add you on my buddy list thing dude.
It's great to get the other side of the coin from people. you remind me of my father in law, he shoots down all my ideas when I.... wait a minute, is this Rick? Is this my father in law?
 
the bikes purpose is to get me to and from work on a dollars worth of gas.
It's a 20 minute drive. I don't wanna go fast or take the twisties at break neck speeds.
and everyone out here rides the dorkiest bikes ive ever seen.

and maybe I am making a sculpture, maybe I'll cover it in playdoh, construction paper, and macaroni, and hang it on the fridge with a magnet.

[eldar]

motorcycles are purpose built? What a crock. A motorcycle can be ANYTHING you want. Clearly it is not your style geeto and thats fine but maybe a little less lecturing on your part.  What is the cb built for? If you can answer that then you are wrong. A cb has been a racer, it has been a tourer, it has been a fixture. All in stock form even. I got it, maybe give him a little credit for know what he is doing. Just cause he does not like every weld he might have to make or every little part he has to fab, does not mean he is not aware of things. Ease up Mr. motorcycle policeman.

[Industrial Cafe]

THANK YOU eldar,
I get #$%* form local people all the time, just for making a cafe. That's what I get for livin' in a closed minded hick town i guess.
 geeto ain't phasin' me.

P.S. 
     I LOVE a good debate, I'm a fire startin' anarchist, man.

[Industrial Cafe]

I also thought about 19's front and rear, my russian has 18's front and rear, and it looks good.
just throwin' ideas at the wall.

[Geeto67]

motorcycles are purpose built? What a crock. A motorcycle can be ANYTHING you want. Clearly it is not your style geeto and thats fine but maybe a little less lecturing on your part.  What is the cb built for? If you can answer that then you are wrong. A cb has been a racer, it has been a tourer, it has been a fixture. All in stock form even. I got it, maybe give him a little credit for know what he is doing. Just cause he does not like every weld he might have to make or every little part he has to fab, does not mean he is not aware of things. Ease up Mr. motorcycle policeman.

Eldar - I think you misunderstand. You may think it is a crock but if all it does is sit there and look pretty and you can't ride it, it isn't a motorcycle it is sculpture. A motorcycle by its very existence has a function - in the case of a CB it is to be able to move under its own power and carry a rider. When I say purpose built I mean the inherit function of a motorcycle, not the sub divisions of race bike, street bike, cafe, whatever. As a racer and a tourer it is still a motorcycle - as a fixture it is not, it becomes sculpture.

At any rate: goldammers bike is a LSR. You can look at it and see right away that it might be an ok LSR racer but a lousy street bike. Take away that LSR component and all you have is a Lousy street bike. Either way how often you think that thing sees use the way it is?

as for:

But, what if I did get away with just those parts? Wouldn't that be amazing?
wouldn't you poop your pants and say "you only spent 400 bucks to do that?"

more likely I would say wow, look at that piece of crap motorcycle. No suspension travel and the rear wheel hit everything at the slightest bit of suspension compression. and you can't even ride the thing since it is the length of a school bus. Espically if you spent only $400 since that is not even going to buy you quality parts out of the stuff you listed.  The shocks you need to run with that kind of travel alone will cost you $400, not to mention what buchananns is going to charge you for spokes. Maybe you could get off that cheap if you hardtailed it, and it would solve the rear suspension issues, but then you have a hardtail bike with a really big rear rim - what's impressive about that.

a 19" rear rim is probably more manageable situation - you are talking about .5 inch of suspension travel loss which you can offset with a tire with a smaller aspect ratio - provided you can find a rear tire for it in that size.

[eldar]

So you have already decided that if he pulls this off it is going to look like crap. Nice. I guess you just cant give a person credit for something you do not like.

As for your backpedal about purpose built, I doubt he is going for a sculpture. But I suppose in your eyes there is something wrong with being unique.

[Industrial Cafe]

look at this.
I did a quick photoshop- the drum is out of scale, but you get the idea.

My shocks are 15 inches long, and at any rate I could relocate the shock mount 2 inches forward and change out the spring for a stiffer rate, or add the short coil from my old progressives.
I don't care how comfy it rides, If I cared about ride quality I'd be riding a Sofa Davidson.

[eldar]

Do you actually have all those holes in your drum?

[Geeto67]

So you have already decided that if he pulls this off it is going to look like crap. Nice. I guess you just cant give a person credit for something you do not like.

As for your backpedal about purpose built, I doubt he is going for a sculpture. But I suppose in your eyes there is something wrong with being unique.

There was no backpedal about purpose - I clarified my point. Had I used short easy to understand words the first time around maybe you would have gotten it then.

As for whether I have decided it will look like crap or not, no I have no tseen it so I have not decided it but I pointed out the odds were against it coming out looking like a pro job wiht a $400 budget using a similar manner in which he assumed I would poop my pants. Really, you don't have anything better to do? In all the years I have been a member of this board I have yet to see you actually build something other than a reputation for defending the ugliest cb750s made....

photoshop ain't the same as a measuring tape. That big gap where the swingarm doesn't line up should be a clue to that. Tell you what - take the bike apart, take photos, take measurements and let's go from there. Adding 2 inches to the shock height (15") means you are talking about an overall increase of 3.5 inches in the rear from stock, what is your rake going to look like? If you extend the swingarm (probably the only way I can see you getting away with it) you get some of that added height back but how much? and that plate mount is going to have to go...