Author Topic: 70's Triumph Bobbers- How To? (Read 20032 times)

JAG · « **on:** January 07, 2009, 12:09:21 AM »

I've have had my eyes set on the old school triumph, for my next project, and I would like to go for the bobber look. But what is involved with the process? It seems like in order for it to go from factory to the bobber style, one would have to do some fabricating on the frame, or are people just buying another frame to achieve the look???

Here is a Triumph Bonneville Before and After.

Any thoughts on the process??

Thanks JAG

Shenanigans · « **Reply #1 on:** January 07, 2009, 12:13:45 AM »

I hope that was not the VERY same bike

You could always weld on a hard tail, but a new hard tail frame is the way to go. I think they look a lot better.

okie · « **Reply #2 on:** January 07, 2009, 04:30:48 AM »

This thread needs to be renamed. Call it, "How to turn a $10,000 bike into a $4,000 bike in a few easy steps".

gerhed · « **Reply #3 on:** January 07, 2009, 07:34:28 AM »

On my '67 Triumph 650, the entire rear portion of the frame
--from just in back of the gas tank--can be unbolted.
So, theoretically you can bolt on a hardtail and
later when you realize that what you did was a bad mistake,
you can take it back to stock.
Please don't cut the stock front fender--!

nickjtc · « **Reply #4 on:** January 07, 2009, 08:21:47 AM »

Quote from: okie on January 07, 2009, 04:30:48 AM

This thread needs to be renamed. Call it, "How to turn a $10,000 bike into a $4,000 bike in a few easy steps".

What he said, tripled. If the 'donor' bike is complete and in good shape it will be worth waaay more in it's original state.

Find a deserving older (mid 80s) Japanese twin and resurrect it.

JAG · « **Reply #5 on:** January 07, 2009, 09:44:33 PM »

I completely agree that the original state of the Triumph's is the way to go, but I found a lot in some pretty bad conditions, that would make it seemingly more appropriate to alter the state of the original specs. Also, at my price range, it would unpractical for me to invest into going back to factory beauty.

So the answer is, it can be done, but only by completely changin to another frame, aside from the late 60's models? What about the 70's models?

If that IS the case, then I again agree, I should take one and make it back to original specs.

JAG

nickjtc · « **Reply #6 on:** January 07, 2009, 10:28:06 PM »

Quote from: JAG on January 07, 2009, 09:44:33 PM

What about the 70's models?

The '70s models had a redesigned, oil-in-frame, set up. So I would guess that it would not be any easier to do a custom job on one of those.

jreich · « **Reply #7 on:** January 09, 2009, 07:10:33 PM »

If you want to recreate what might have been considered a bobber, and do it for the least amount of money, it is best to find a decent running bike from the get-go. If you can find one where you know the sludge trap has been cleaned, and ideally, replaced, this in and of itself will save you quite a few bucks. Rebuilding the triumph motor requires quite a few special tools. Not too mention, a few whitworth tools for the earlier '60's models. If you want it to last, and don't know the history of the motor, you really need to have it stripped down and the sludge trap cleaned.

In regard to the hardtail...don't weld to the stock frame. Not only because you (or someone else) may want to put the stock rearend on, but also because quite a few builders feel that welding to cast material isn't the safest. There are quite a few really nice bolt on rear-ends out there now for around $250.

Find a nice unit construction, pre-oif bike and throw on the hardtail and a solo seat, and there ya go.

Cheers
JD

nickjtc · « **Reply #8 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:26:38 PM »

Here is one from 1965.

jreich · « **Reply #9 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:32:11 PM »

Quote from: nickjtc on January 09, 2009, 08:26:38 PM

Here is one from 1965.

That is beautiful...love the ducktail style front fender and using the stock rear end....looks so clean

That must be pre-65 however, as it is a pre-unit engine

nickjtc · « **Reply #10 on:** January 09, 2009, 08:35:58 PM »

You are right; the bike was featured in a '65 magazine. The front fender 'effect' was created by mounting it back to front.

jreich · « **Reply #11 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:40:59 AM »

Quote from: nickjtc on January 09, 2009, 08:35:58 PM

You are right; the bike was featured in a '65 magazine. The front fender 'effect' was created by mounting it back to front.

Oh, I'm with ya now! I appreciate you posting that picture...just a nice clean setup

BeSeeingYou · « **Reply #12 on:** January 10, 2009, 09:42:57 AM »

Quote from: nickjtc on January 07, 2009, 08:21:47 AM

Quote from: okie on January 07, 2009, 04:30:48 AM
This thread needs to be renamed. Call it, "How to turn a $10,000 bike into a $4,000 bike in a few easy steps".

What he said, tripled. If the 'donor' bike is complete and in good shape it will be worth waaay more in it's original state.

Find a deserving older (mid 80s) Japanese twin and resurrect it.

The Yamaha XS650 seems to be one of the best choices for a project like this. Specifically the 78-85 Special models due to the fact that they are readily available. It is usually frowned on to use an XS1, XS2, TX650, or 74-79 XS Standard model due to rarity of these models. One guy on the XS650 forum did make a bobber out of a mint 77 Standard and though he did a nice job he did get a degree of guff about it. The Yamaha 650 twin is a simple, reliable, bullet proof engine that is readily adaptable. There is a large supply of after market stuff available, stock and custom, for virtually any part on this bike. The exception would be certain engine parts on the XS1,XS2, and TX. There is also a hardtail kit available specifically made to modify the XS frame. They even have a bit of resemblance to a Triumph. They have sometimes been described as the best Triumph that Triumph never built.

JAG · « **Reply #13 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:09:59 PM »

Thanks guys that is some really great info! I didn't even stop to think about using a Yamaha. I know with going with a Triumph, the parts would probably be more expensive and harder to find. A Yamaha, like you say is more accessible, then maybe I can put one together for a few thousand dollars and make it look great.. Looks like I need to go find some pictures of the XS650, and alter my research criteria a bit to include it in the search.

Thanks again.

JAG · « **Reply #14 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:47:07 PM »

Here's a yamaha I found, not sure if it's the "Special" or not, but it does look almost identical to the triumph, as far as design and engine. I don't like the forward controls, or the exhaust, but it's a start. :Dmm

I don't know anything about Yamaha's and their power/horsepower, and all that jazz. Guess it's time to do some research

What would be a good price for a decently running xs650 special, but bad on the cosmetics-since all that will change anyways?

Winter time sucks because ya can't ride, but I do love winter time cause it allows me to tinker around and start other projects!!

BeSeeingYou · « **Reply #15 on:** January 10, 2009, 03:54:44 PM »

A few good places to start your research:

http://www.650central.com
http://www.mikesxs.net
http://xs650temp.proboards29.com/index.cgi
http://xs650.org.au An Australian site and one of my favorites

Have fun. Around here an excellent running/looking 650 Special will run $900-1200. One not running or in poor cosmetic shape under $500. Among the Special model years the 78-79 are the same and the 80-85 are similar. The early two years have disc brakes front and rear, points ignition, 38mm Mikuni cv carbs. The later years had electronic ignition, rear drum brake, and 34mm Mikuni cv carbs. If you like the classic look of spoked wheels look for a Special II or Heritage Special. So you have some choice here too. The 77-85 years had a little better fork than the earlier years.. The Special had a smaller sleeker gas tank so that may be a better fit than the Standard tank. Once modified it can be hard to say what that bike was as many of the differences between Standard and Special where cosmetic. I think it was around 52hp but like I said earlier this engine lends itself to a lot of modification.

JAG · « **Reply #16 on:** January 10, 2009, 05:45:28 PM »

Quote from: srust58 on January 10, 2009, 03:54:44 PM

A few good places to start your research:

http://www.650central.com
http://www.mikesxs.net
http://xs650temp.proboards29.com/index.cgi
http://xs650.org.au An Australian site and one of my favorites

Have fun. Around here an excellent running/looking 650 Special will run $900-1200. One not running or in poor cosmetic shape under $500. Among the Special model years the 78-79 are the same and the 80-85 are similar. The early two years have disc brakes front and rear, points ignition, 38mm Mikuni cv carbs. The later years had electronic ignition, rear drum brake, and 34mm Mikuni cv carbs. If you like the classic look of spoked wheels look for a Special II or Heritage Special. So you have some choice here too. There is quite a lot of parts interchangeability between all years 1970-1985. The 77-85 years had a little better fork too. The Special had a smaller sleeker gas tank so that may be a better fit than the Standard tank. Once modified it can be hard to say what that bike was as many of the differences between Standard and Special where cosmetic.

Thanks so much! Great Info.. That'll get me on the ground running!!

Soos · « **Reply #17 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:00:37 PM »

I always thought a "bobber" was simply a bike you stripped EVERYTHING not needed to run off it to make it lighter, therefore accelerate quicker, and possibly higher top speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobber_(motorcycle)

l8r

JAG · « **Reply #18 on:** January 10, 2009, 06:37:14 PM »

Quote from: Soos on January 10, 2009, 06:00:37 PM

I always thought a "bobber" was simply a bike you stripped EVERYTHING not needed to run off it to make it lighter, therefore accelerate quicker, and possibly higher top speed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobber_(motorcycle)

l8r

I agree completely. And a chopper is usually designated by it's long front forks and what not.

BeSeeingYou · « **Reply #19 on:** January 11, 2009, 11:16:27 AM »

One thing to keep in mind is when I see XS650 Specials on ebay or graigslist they are sometimes misidentified as to model year. I don't think this is for any nefarious reason as one year is not any better or worse than another. To many they all look alike but there are obvious visual clues to help tell them apart. For your purpose it may not matter what year unless you want a specific feature that one year has over another.

fuzzybutt · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2009, 09:19:17 AM »

the xs650 is the best motorcycle triumph never built i've heard.

BeSeeingYou · « **Reply #21 on:** January 12, 2009, 06:17:23 PM »

Sweet.
Has the XS Special rims and the front and rear disc brakes of the 78-79 model year.

JAG · « **Reply #22 on:** January 12, 2009, 07:54:35 PM »

I like the way that one looks srust58. Simple yet effective. Are those the stock forks?

I found a website (www.650motorcycles.com) with literally thousands of pictures, and I'm getting a lot of good ideas. I'm having a difficult time trying to find anyone with their builds/projects in any detail. I'd like to know what kind of things I am getting myself into; re-wiring, engine rebuilding, what kind of frame to get, or to cut it in half and weld a hardtail, mounting battery, what kind of tank to use, foward controls, etc., etc.

I really like the more simpler ones. No long forks, or big fat rear tires. Although some of them that I have found, actually doesn't look bad with the big tire. I suppose after building my honda, it seems like there are a lot more options with this build. It's all down to personal preference and style.

Jonathan

JAG · « **Reply #23 on:** January 12, 2009, 07:57:40 PM »

Oh, and what the heck is a rephased engine? Is that another way of saying it's been bored or something??

BeSeeingYou · « **Reply #24 on:** January 12, 2009, 09:52:04 PM »

Jag
This may not be 100% accurate but I think it's pretty close. The XS650 has what is known as a 360 degree crankshaft. The pistons rise and fall in unison. The crankshaft can be modified to make the right cylinder lead the left by 90 degrees giving a 270 degree firing interval. This reduces vibration substantially. It requires an extra crankshaft as a donor. The #3 flywheel is removed and replaced by the #2 flywheel from the donor. It also requires modification to the ignition and cam. There is an explanation on the Australian site under the tech menu giving more detail. The engine can also be rephased at 83 degrees with a 277 degree firing interval. I think the stock crankshaft can be used for this but it is not as effective as the 90 degree mod. I would assume the cam and ignition would still need to be modified but this approach may be easier for the DIY'er and still reduce vibration over the stock engine.

If you have not already checked the XS650 forum http://xstemp.proboards29.com/index.cgi has some extensive build threads with many photos under the project heading. Those do look like stock forks with Brit style boots. The rotors and calipers are also stock though they look to be polished as they are normally black.

AHuff · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:43:42 AM »

Anymore info on the third one, littlebike2bi0?

JAG · « **Reply #26 on:** January 13, 2009, 01:13:12 PM »

Thanks for the forum link and info srust. So is the only reason for the rephasing is because of the vibration? Does it do anything for the longevity of the engine (wear and tear), horsepower, anything else?

Quote from: AHuff on January 13, 2009, 03:43:42 AM

Anymore info on the third one, littlebike2bi0?

AHuff, I know for a fact I found it on the www.650motorcyles.com website, in the choppers bobbers link http://www.650motorcycles.com/ChoppersBobbers.html, but with 68 links to peoples builds, I'm not sure which one it is. The website itself is laid out quite poorly. On the main page, there are over 1700 links to people's rides. It would be a lot nicer if there were atleast thumbnails or something besides a link..

AHuff · « **Reply #27 on:** January 13, 2009, 08:48:16 PM »

Quote from: JAG on January 13, 2009, 01:13:12 PM

AHuff, I know for a fact I found it on the www.650motorcyles.com website,

You sure, its not watermarked with 650motorcycles.com, and the picture is quite a bit bigger than 600x400.

KARamsay · « **Reply #28 on:** January 14, 2009, 01:54:55 PM »

jockeyJournal.com is the internet hang out for folks that like to bob and chop old truimphs. Some make great donors, but if I had a cherry late 60's Bonniville - I would never do that.

I love the cafe and Bobber bikes, well before they bacame the latest fad, but respect the originals much more than a bob job. Build a bobber out of scrap parts...

JAG · « **Reply #29 on:** January 14, 2009, 08:46:25 PM »

Quote from: AHuff on January 13, 2009, 08:48:16 PM

Quote from: JAG on January 13, 2009, 01:13:12 PM

AHuff, I know for a fact I found it on the www.650motorcyles.com website,

You sure, its not watermarked with 650motorcycles.com, and the picture is quite a bit bigger than 600x400.

You're right AHuff, I searched for over an hour for this file and I finally found it's location, but it doesn't seem to have any more details about it.

http://www.xs650.nl/cpg/displayimage.php?album=2&pos=15

Quote from: KARamsay on January 14, 2009, 01:54:55 PM

jockeyJournal.com is the internet hang out for folks that like to bob and chop old truimphs. Some make great donors, but if I had a cherry late 60's Bonniville - I would never do that.

I love the cafe and Bobber bikes, well before they bacame the latest fad, but respect the originals much more than a bob job. Build a bobber out of scrap parts...

I've scrolled around JockeyJournal a bit, and there is some pretty good info and pics there. I am in complete agreement with not slaughtering a triumph, I've been pretty much talked out of doing that. However, when I do find a yamaha xs650, it will be in pretty bad shape. I find it quite ridiculous to purchase an almost mint bike like these and just rip it apart, and this is for two main reason: 1. I don't have the money to by a mint bike ($1500-10,000) bike just to rip it apart and turn it into a bobber. I do however have time to kill during the winter season to ressurect an xs650 from the brink of the scrap yard and turn it into a nice sleek styled, good running bobber.

I suppose this thread should be renamed to XS650 Bobber How to.

I am searching quite a bit for one, so when I do finally get it, I'll be starting a thread in "Other Bikes" cataloguing the build. I just hope I don't catch too much grief about turning a bike into a bobber. I know for some it's sacrileges (so to speak) to do so, but I really do love the style and uniqueness of it. I think the task will be challenging and quite fun to do.

nickjtc · « **Reply #30 on:** January 16, 2009, 09:17:27 PM »

Or you could be creative and stay with the 'original' look and do something special with the engine.......

gerhed · « **Reply #31 on:** January 17, 2009, 06:26:10 AM »

Quote from: srust58 on January 14, 2009, 10:05:34 PM

I have to admit that I cringe a bit when I see a nice older bike of whatever make cut apart. A basket case or cosmetically challenged bike is another matter and I think it's pretty cool to see some of the bobbers/choppers that get built. Up here near Minneapolis are we have a huge motorcycle salvage yard that would be heaven to you guys who like to do this called Sport Wheels. http://www.sportwheel.com

As for the rephasing I am no expert on this but it seems it is mostly done to lessen the vibration. There is also a 750 kit made for the XS650 and often these two modifications are done together. I don't see why it should affect the longevity or increase horsepower to any great degree.

I visited SportWheels several years ago, in the winter, looking for a right side disc for my 750F.
The CB750's were all lined up on the edge of a 10 foot drop off.
Everything frozen in the mud!
Quite a challenge !
I got my disc, though.
What great place !

JAG · « **Reply #32 on:** January 18, 2009, 03:36:41 PM »

Quote from: AHuff on January 13, 2009, 08:48:16 PM

Quote from: JAG on January 13, 2009, 01:13:12 PM

AHuff, I know for a fact I found it on the www.650motorcyles.com website,

You sure, its not watermarked with 650motorcycles.com, and the picture is quite a bit bigger than 600x400.

I found the bike and it's detailed build.. http://www.650motorcycles.com/BulletinBoard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40

Quote from: nickjtc on January 16, 2009, 09:17:27 PM

Or you could be creative and stay with the 'original' look and do something special with the engine.......

I love that idea, but I'm just so very stuck with the bobber style. Those bikes look pretty cool though.

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Author Topic: 70's Triumph Bobbers- How To? (Read 20032 times)

okie

fuzzybutt

KARamsay