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upperlake04

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surveillance
« on: January 12, 2009, 05:22:54 AM »
  It occurs to me after reading this news article on state trooper surveillance that some of the spirited and open discussions we have had on this forum could be a potential problem for some of our American friends.  :-X 

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2009/01/08/f-rfa-macdonald.html
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2009, 06:34:53 AM »
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 06:36:46 AM by Bob Wessner »
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Offline Soos

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2009, 07:17:38 AM »
Look at the % of the population in jail/prison/ on probation in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.


Last I checked, we have a larger % of our population in jail/prison than any other 1st world country on earth.






It's all a business to them.

The inmates are their service, and the taxpayers their paying customers.
The more the inmates, the more employees/buildings/etc. needed, therefore the higher $$ bill to the taxpayers.
So the tighter the laws, and the more of them, the more inmates.



I think a good chunk of inmates could do better with counseling, community service,  and probation than prison/jail. At least they could live at home, and HAVE a JOB to help pay the bill for their re-habilitation.



I'm not paranoid, they watch anything they can.
I'm quite sure a few things I have said on the 'net would have raised a few flags to say the least.



l8r
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Offline my78k

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 09:07:45 AM »
Hey maybe that is where Heff and Ed have been....rest assured my tongue is firmly planted in cheek!

Dennis
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Offline mark

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 10:22:07 AM »
Quote from: Soos on January 12, 2009, 07:17:38 AM
Look at the % of the population in jail/prison/ on probation in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.

........

It's all a business to them.

The inmates are their service, and the taxpayers their paying customers.
The more the inmates, the more employees/buildings/etc. needed, therefore the higher $$ bill to the taxpayers.
So the tighter the laws, and the more of them, the more inmates.

I think a good chunk of inmates could do better with counseling, community service,  and probation than prison/jail. At least they could live at home, and HAVE a JOB to help pay the bill for their re-habilitation.

........

l8r


Look at the % of the population being just outright worthless thugs in the US as opposed to the rest of the world.

Eisenhower warned against the rise of 'The Military-Industrial Complex'...... we now have 'The Prison-Industrial Complex'.

'Rehabilitation' may actually work in a handful of rare instances but is simply a naïve fantasy with respect to the vast majority of convicts. Robbers... rapists... murderers... drunk drivers... hanging and burying is a lot cheaper than warehousing and far more effective than 'counseling' in preventing repeat offenses. Flogging could replace prison for petty crimes.

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Offline nickjtc

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 10:52:53 AM »
For a vision (excuse the pun) of what the ultimate surveillance would be like, watch the film 'Eagle Eye'. The tragedy is that most of the technology shown in this fiction story is actually possible today. :( :-\
« Last Edit: January 12, 2009, 10:54:44 AM by nickjtc »
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Re: surveillance
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 01:42:29 PM »
yep, we have a multitude of laws here and the goal is to make everyone a lawbreaker.
Adds to the revenue that a way.
Welcome to the united States of Amerika.
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Offline ghost

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 01:53:37 PM »
those hangings and floggings should also be done in the local town square, might discourage other thugs from being thugs.
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Offline tramp

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 02:07:29 PM »
there will always be bad people
what your seeing are dr. spock babies finally getting thier rewards
this is what happens when you don't spank your kid for being stupid
also so many were raised without a father to guide them
kids have to know where bounderies are and what is right from wrong
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 02:23:10 PM »
Careful there, tramp. You may offend the sensibilities of the younger members of this esteemed group. :)
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Offline racerx95

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 02:47:14 PM »
I for one would not shed a tear if all the communist in the world DIE! They have killed one hundred million people world wide(and counting)boo hoo some commies were spied on. All other protestors carry on ,your fighting the good fight.
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Offline my78k

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 06:13:12 PM »
Quote from: racerx95 on January 12, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
I for one would not shed a tear if all the communist in the world DIE! They have killed one hundred million people world wide(and counting)boo hoo some commies were spied on. All other protestors carry on ,your fighting the good fight.


LMAO!!!! That is the funniest thing I have read in a long time....oh wait I hope I wasn't wrong in assuming that you must be friggin joking right?!?!!?

Dennis
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Offline Shenanigans

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 06:23:10 PM »
Just sayin'

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Offline mrbreeze

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 06:54:35 PM »
Quote from: tramp on January 12, 2009, 02:07:29 PM
there will always be bad people
what your seeing are dr. spock babies finally getting thier rewards
this is what happens when you don't spank your kid for being stupid
also so many were raised without a father to guide them
kids have to know where bounderies are and what is right from wrong
Man!!!!!.....you hit the nail right on the head Tramp!!
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 07:09:52 PM »
Quote from: racerx95 on January 12, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
I for one would not shed a tear if all the communist in the world DIE! They have killed one hundred million people world wide(and counting)boo hoo some commies were spied on. All other protestors carry on ,your fighting the good fight.

Wow :o
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billybobobrain

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 07:37:09 PM »
" Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin

You have all by now realized that the news and TV have brain washed all of you! Welcome to the USSA.
And dont blame me I voted for Chuck Baldwin.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 07:58:23 PM »
These things tend to swing back and forth in the US and probably elsewhere. After 9/11 there was hysteria especially in NY and I guess since Maryland is essentially where most government agencies are housed.
If there is to be a thwarted terrorist attack on the US and I am sure some were thwarted, it was done by people quietly working in the shadows, and not rummaging through your jockey shorts at the airport. 

I took a Ferry to Ellis Island and next thing I know the TSA is there since the boat stops at the Statue of Liberty. Yes the Statue would be a target. Noting you could carry on you would even damage it from the outside.
Americans will grow tired of this and challenge intrusions through the Courts. That is why we need good courts that will uphold the Constitution.

Is the US a target, sure we are, must we live in fear, no. We need to go about our lives. We must defend our freedom in a peaceful and legal manner. We must also support freedom when and where we can. You may not like the ALCU, but outfits like them do defend freedom. You may not like some of their causes, but it does help you and me directly or indirectly.

I am a conservative Republican, I have an FBI file from when I was the Editor of my College paper. When I requested it, it was drivel.
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2009, 06:16:13 AM »
They do have their ways. When I was drafted into the military in 1966  :o my MOS required a security clearance. This required a lengthly questionnaire and an interview. One of the questions on the questionnaire was had I ever been out of the country (U.S). I answered no.

During the interview my answer was challenged, they claimed I had been in Canada (that foreign bed of..  ;D) only two years earlier. I had forgotten about it. Several of us were camping in northern N.Y. during July of that year and a very nasty thunder storm was developing. Rather than hang in tents we pulled them down and took off for a little trip. We crossed into Canada at Ogdensburg, a very lightly used and out of the way crossing at least back then. We grabbed a bite to eat and a beer and then headed back. To this day, I have no idea how they knew this. As far as I know, there was no record at the crossing. Back then you barely had to stop.  ??? I did get the clearance, so I guess they considered it a minor oversight on my part.
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Offline tramp

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 07:02:38 AM »
the moment you start to constrict movement between countries that you had not before you let terrorist win
you have to let terrorist know that you will not change because of them, people will still be free
what you have to do is fight terrorist on thier level
terrorist care not for civilians and will kill innocent people
when you catch a terrorist you have to kill him his family all his brother and sisters to let him know his bloodline stops because of him
believe me he doesn't care if you brother or sister dies because of his actions
once a terrorist knows his family will end he may not want to be a terrorist anymore
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Offline mark

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 07:13:40 AM »
Quote from: tramp on January 13, 2009, 07:02:38 AM
...
what you have to do is fight terrorist on thier level
terrorist care not for civilians and will kill innocent people
when you catch a terrorist you have to kill him his family all his brother and sisters to let him know his bloodline stops because of him
believe me he doesn't care if you brother or sister dies because of his actions
once a terrorist knows his family will end he may not want to be a terrorist anymore


how about taking a page from the old Roman manual for dealing with such barbarians.......

... his family? nay. may his village be leveled so that not one stone rests upon another, all life exterminated even unto the beasts and vermin, and the fields sown with salt so that none may ever return..... and so on.

 8)

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Offline BobbyR

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 07:24:48 AM »
I had the same experience almost. When I got out some guys and I all VietVets decided to go back to the land. We were on the Quebec border so went went across because it was cheaper and the girls were better looking.
They typed in your plate number as you crossed. Thrid trip I got yanked over. They searched my car and me for being a "border crosser". This would have been 1973. The fact we are being monitored has not changed, they now have better tools.
  
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Offline ofreen

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 07:45:46 AM »
It is simple, really.  It is not a question of whether the government minions will abuse their authority, power and trust, but when.  And how often.  And to what extent.  And who will be hurt.  And they all say the same thing.  "If you are not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."  And "You are either with us or against us."
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Offline nickjtc

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 08:27:52 AM »
Quote from: racerx95 on January 12, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
I for one would not shed a tear if all the communist in the world DIE! They have killed one hundred million people world wide(and counting)boo hoo some commies were spied on. All other protestors carry on ,your fighting the good fight.

In the interest of a good, open, discussion, please explain this.....
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billybobobrain

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Re: surveillance
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2009, 10:32:35 PM »
Quote from: nickjtc on January 13, 2009, 08:27:52 AM
Quote from: racerx95 on January 12, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
I for one would not shed a tear if all the communist in the world DIE! They have killed one hundred million people world wide(and counting)boo hoo some commies were spied on. All other protestors carry on ,your fighting the good fight.

In the interest of a good, open, discussion, please explain this.....
Quote from: billybobobrain on January 12, 2009, 07:37:09 PM
" Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin


Explained.
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