Topic: Removing old Kreme liner with MEK....now what UPDATE

[greenjeans]

Have a tank that has a Kreme liner.   I currently have a quart of MEK in there that is doing a great job of softening the liner...almost disolving it.  I can pretty easily brush off what's left inside the filler neck but of course can't reach down in the tank.  I'm giving it a shake every 10 minutes or so that I'm home, and left it all day in the bottom....

Any brilliant ideas that I've missed in my searches ? 

drain and refill with new ?   

I'm afraid that I'm going to end up with a big pile of goo......

[jreich]

I removed a red-kote tank liner by filling the tank nearly full with water, and then pouring (slowly and gently) a container of the works or comparable toilet bowl cleaner (hydrochloric acid) in to top it off. Let it set for a couple of days, and the tank was spotless...I didn't have to put in nuts and bolts and shake it, and it left no residue or balls of sticky mess.

This idea is definitely not brilliant by any means, but it an inexpensive method.

cheers
JD

[greenjeans]

Hmmm......  I'll give it a shot.

hydrochloric acid ?  Is that the ingredient I should be looking for ?    My chemistry is a bit fuzzy...would this
eat away at the metal or is that what the water is there for - to dilute it ?

[jreich]

I bought a container of "the works" toilet bowl cleaner and used that---most toilet bowl cleaners also have the hydrochloric acid that is necessary to eat away at this lining.

Adding this to the water (and make sure that you always add any acid to water, not vice versa) dilutes it enough where it is effective, yet not damaging to the metal.

There was a thread on here about hydrochloric acid eating away at the metal. My thoughts are that if it eats away enough to cause pinholes, then the tank structure itself needed attention.

[MikeB]

Hi greenjeans
I have been searching for a few days to solve this same problem
and came across this post
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=35402.msg364755#msg364755

seems "Aircraft remover" found at Auto Zone (1gl. $30.00 didn't find the qt.) seemed to work for
73 CB750 cafe racer really well, followed up by the works cleaner
I will be trying to remove the cream in my tank also

will be interested how just the MEC does on this

Mike

[greenjeans]

The MEK definitely works to soften the liner and dissolve parts of it....problem is you can't get in there to scrub it away.
I think if you had enough of it, it might dissolve the liner completely, but that gets expensive.

I'm going to rinse it out as best I can this evening and try some of  "The Works"   It's the right price...and I just finished
reading more posts about it - sounds like it will do the trick.

I'll report back with my results.

[greenjeans]

Here's the update:

Ok, I drained the MEK last night after work and rinsed it out with a couple tanks full of water, which almost immediately turned what was left of the goo,
less gooey - more like it was originally.   There WAS less of the liner in there.  I suspect that if you had a gallon or so of the MEK and was able to repeatedly
shake the tank, it would eventually disolve the liner. I then filled it back up and put 2 bottles of "The Works" in there  (WalMart $1.12 a bottle  20% Hydrogen Chloride)
As of this morning, doesn't really look like much of anything is happening, I see some of the rust is dissolving, but liner remains.   Hopefully, after work, I'll
see some better results.    The MEK was $9 for a quart vs $1.12 for 28oz. "The Works" 

Again, I'll report back after work and see if "the Works" has done it's job more....

[leekellerking]

I have a buddy who has used CLR (Calcium, Lime and Rust remover) on the tank of his restoration-in-progress with good results.

CLR is not hydrochloric acid like the works, but Gluconic Acid, Lactic Acid, Lauryldimethyl Hydroxysultaine and Propylene Glycol Normal Butyl Ether.

http://jelmar.com/msds/CLR_MSDS_03C0309_3-17-09.doc

I am going to try CLR first, and if that doesn't work I may try The Works.

http://cctankwash.com/content/00/01/42/07/24/userimages/MSDS/The%20Works%20Toilet%20Bowl%20Cleaner%20MSDS.pdf

Worse comes to worse, I go with POR-15's PorStrip, but I like the idea of using locally-available stuff, first.

The POR-15 Strip is $15.95 a quart plus shipping! (But more chemically complex than either The Works or CLR)

http://www.por15.com/POR-STRIP/productinfo/RSG/

http://www.actiocms.com/MsdsDisplaycode_adm_australian.cfm?msds_id=613693&dbname=actioauthor1&Language=1&CFID=1016238&CFTOKEN=62733302

Interestingly, it only adds about $5.00 to the cost if you upgrade from the POR-15's standard utility/cycle tank repair kit to the heavy duty kit.  Hmm...



Lee

Here's the update:

Ok, I drained the MEK last night after work and rinsed it out with a couple tanks full of water, which almost immediately turned what was left of the goo,
less gooey - more like it was originally.   There WAS less of the liner in there.  I suspect that if you had a gallon or so of the MEK and was able to repeatedly
shake the tank, it would eventually disolve the liner. I then filled it back up and put 2 bottles of "The Works" in there  (WalMart $1.12 a bottle  20% Hydrogen Chloride)
As of this morning, doesn't really look like much of anything is happening, I see some of the rust is dissolving, but liner remains.   Hopefully, after work, I'll
see some better results.    The MEK was $9 for a quart vs $1.12 for 28oz. "The Works" 

Again, I'll report back after work and see if "the Works" has done it's job more....

[seaweb11]

If you are able to get it gooy and sof why not put in a length of chain in there and shake it all around.
Worked with one of my tanks with final rust removal.

[hapakev]

what are you guys plugging the petcock hole with?  I have a 78f so there is a threaded nipplt that the petcock mounts to.

[jeepster]

I'm thinking of buying the Por 15 heavy duty cycle tank repair kit: http://www.por15.com/HD-CYCLE-TANK-REPAIR-KIT/productinfo/HDCTRK/ It's a bit pricey at $50, but it includes the Por Strip, "marine Clean", Metal Ready and the Por 15 liner. I figured if I am going to recoat the tank anyway, I might as well spend a bit more and get the top shelf stuff. Maybe I'll even be able to stop running an inline filter...a boy can dream right?

I have a buddy who has used CLR (Calcium, Lime and Rust remover) on the tank of his restoration-in-progress with good results.

CLR is not hydrochloric acid like the works, but Gluconic Acid, Lactic Acid, Lauryldimethyl Hydroxysultaine and Propylene Glycol Normal Butyl Ether.

http://jelmar.com/msds/CLR_MSDS_03C0309_3-17-09.doc

I am going to try CLR first, and if that doesn't work I may try The Works.

http://cctankwash.com/content/00/01/42/07/24/userimages/MSDS/The%20Works%20Toilet%20Bowl%20Cleaner%20MSDS.pdf

Worse comes to worse, I go with POR-15's PorStrip, but I like the idea of using locally-available stuff, first.

The POR-15 Strip is $15.95 a quart plus shipping! (But more chemically complex than either The Works or CLR)

http://www.por15.com/POR-STRIP/productinfo/RSG/

http://www.actiocms.com/MsdsDisplaycode_adm_australian.cfm?msds_id=613693&dbname=actioauthor1&Language=1&CFID=1016238&CFTOKEN=62733302

Interestingly, it only adds about $5.00 to the cost if you upgrade from the POR-15's standard utility/cycle tank repair kit to the heavy duty kit.  Hmm...



Lee

Here's the update:

Ok, I drained the MEK last night after work and rinsed it out with a couple tanks full of water, which almost immediately turned what was left of the goo,
less gooey - more like it was originally.   There WAS less of the liner in there.  I suspect that if you had a gallon or so of the MEK and was able to repeatedly
shake the tank, it would eventually disolve the liner. I then filled it back up and put 2 bottles of "The Works" in there  (WalMart $1.12 a bottle  20% Hydrogen Chloride)
As of this morning, doesn't really look like much of anything is happening, I see some of the rust is dissolving, but liner remains.   Hopefully, after work, I'll
see some better results.    The MEK was $9 for a quart vs $1.12 for 28oz. "The Works" 

Again, I'll report back after work and see if "the Works" has done it's job more....

[BeSeeingYou]

what are you guys plugging the petcock hole with?  I have a 78f so there is a threaded nipplt that the petcock mounts to.

I picked up a rubber stopper from Home Despot.  Works great.

[kghost]

Throw some Wood Screws in there with the MEK and shake it.

Use steel ones. The sharp edges on the screws help peel off the old liner and you can fish them out with a magnet.

Leave the MEK and screws in there till it dissolves the liner....just shake it every once and a while.

If its sealed up the MEK evaporates much slower.

It took me about 3 days to get the Kreem out of a BMW tank .

[Steve F]

You need to first remove the KREEM with a solvent that will soften the stuff, like you were doing.  The ACID is for removing rust, and that would be AFTER you remove the KREEM which is covering the tank metal.  ACIDS won't tuch the kreem liner, solvents will.  And be careful with solvents and paint removers unless of course, you're planning on repainting the tank.
Good luck.
Steve F

[leekellerking]

I am planning on repainting, but not immediately.  Any suggestions on what I can do to protect the paint from the stripper?


Lee

You need to first remove the KREEM with a solvent that will soften the stuff, like you were doing.  The ACID is for removing rust, and that would be AFTER you remove the KREEM which is covering the tank metal.  ACIDS won't tuch the kreem liner, solvents will.  And be careful with solvents and paint removers unless of course, you're planning on repainting the tank.
Good luck.
Steve F

[jeepster]

I'm planning on wrapping the entire tank except for the gascap with plastic and painters tape.

I am planning on repainting, but not immediately.  Any suggestions on what I can do to protect the paint from the stripper?


Lee

You need to first remove the KREEM with a solvent that will soften the stuff, like you were doing.  The ACID is for removing rust, and that would be AFTER you remove the KREEM which is covering the tank metal.  ACIDS won't tuch the kreem liner, solvents will.  And be careful with solvents and paint removers unless of course, you're planning on repainting the tank.
Good luck.
Steve F

[mtherrmann]

I was going to use a Por 15 HD kit on my 1980 honda cb650.  I plan on taking off the petcock and plugging that up, but what about the gas cap?  What do you do to cover the filler hole when using the liner?

[736cc]

To protect paint, use hobby 'dope" aka liquid mask found online in hobby stores. Itsa brush-on rubber cement sorta. Muriatic acid won't harm paint, btw. It will disolve rust stat (and a petcock, too, and don't ask how I know....)

[MCRider]

what are you guys plugging the petcock hole with?  I have a 78f so there is a threaded nipplt that the petcock mounts to.

I'm sure a rubber plug is fine. I had to have something more secure, just for me.


It is a 1/2" FIP cap (female iron pipe) from Loews

[shizzomynizzo]

I re coated my cb550 tank this past week. I was going to purchase the top dollar por 15 heavy duty because I have a kreem liner that was peeling. After talking to my dad (he did his old Norton Commando tank a few years back and it turned out perfect) i realized the por 15 products, can be substituted by other brand, except the tank sealer.


I had a gallon of paint stripper laying around the garage, equal to por strip
I also had a gallon of simple green degreaser in the garage, equal to marine clean
I purchased a quart of Phosphoric Acid for $4 from my local lowes, equal to metal ready by por 15
I purchased an 8 oz size tank coating from por 15, 18.25 shipped, 2 days to receive

cost me a total of $24.25

If you had to buy the simple green and stripper, expect to pay another 15-20 dollars.

In the end I save only about $30 with shipping, but if you don't have all this laying around you will only save 10-15 dollars.

Just my 2 cents

BTW tank turned out great

[mtherrmann]

Thanks for the advice.....I found something to cover the petcock drain with, and i was going to wrap the tank in plastic and painters tape. 

             What should i use to cover the filler hole?  I have to slosh around all kinds of different chemicals to clean the tank, then slosh around the liner, so i am for sure not going to leave the cap on.  Any ideas?

[Bob Wessner]

What should i use to cover the filler hole? 

Go to your local hardware store and look for a plumber's plug. They come in various sizes so measure tank opening. They go into the opening and you snug them by screwing down a center nut I believe. Jonesy (member) used one and has a picture of it in his post. I'll let you search for it.