Topic: "Who killed the electric car?" Anyone got a copy of this movie?

[Ecosse]

forgive the brief hijack. scottish inventions.
http://www.magicdragon.com/Wallace/thingscot.html

and many believe kirkpatrick macmillan invented what we now consider the first real bicycle. with john dunlop inventing the pneumatic tire can we not credit them for a part in the motorcycle?

ooh come on.




if it weren't for the bicycle getting back to town after your electric car ran out of juice would have taken much longer.

[Terry in Australia]

Geez mate, you're really anti-electric cars, aren't you? I'm not saying that they should eventually replace all vehicles with electric alternatives, but I'd like to keep an open mind on anything that will keep my little corner of the world liveable? You don't work for an oil company, do you? 

[Ecosse]

Geez mate, you're really anti-electric cars, aren't you? I'm not saying that they should eventually replace all vehicles with electric alternatives, but I'd like to keep an open mind on anything that will keep my little corner of the world liveable? You don't work for an oil company, do you? 

  i cannot confirm or deny that question...

don't take me too seriously on this one. while i think my criticisms have some merit this subject just brings out the contrarian in me i guess. the more people lap it up the more i dig in. it's a gift really.

let me just throw in that i usually don't form opinions over night so i tend to be hard pressed in changing them- stubborn i think is the word. but my mind is never closed. i'm not perfect and information/ facts do change. only a fool shuts out opportunities to have their mind changed.

[Ecosse]

Just read about this little bugger. The hotted up version I mean.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/tesla-power-2009-01-19

[Terry in Australia]

Ahhhhh, well that's where my own bias comes in, as much as an electric car that can happily keep with gas powered cars while producing no harmful emissions is a wonderful idea in my opinion, I like my sports cars (and bikes) with real engines, with at least 8 cylinders.

It does look nice though, in a RC toy car kind of way. The "Tesla" tag is a little "pompous", considering that there's nothing particularly earth-shattering in putting an electric motor in a car, I would have thought?

[Bob Wessner]

Interesting, but I'm not sure a $100,000+ sports car or the $45,000 GM Volt will be embraced by the masses.

[Ecosse]

I can't help but to think of that 80's hair band.

What I do like a lot is the Lotus this car is based on. Drool...

+1 on cost too; the eco-elites in Hollywood will scoop 'em up by the dozen me thinks.

Gotta give them points for trying I suppose. BTW: have ya heard that there are infrastructures in place western California for wind and sun power but the eco weenies are wetting their pants about the 'ugly' power lines needed to transport the energy to the cities where most of the power is needed. Someone shoot these MoFo's please.

Reminds me of our guy Teddy Kennedy. He's all for the alternative energy but blocks wind farms off the coast of Martha's Vineyard. Geez, ya can't even see them from the 'Compound' there Irish!

[Terry in Australia]

Is the "Volt" another hybrid, like the Prius, Bob? I don't understand the hybrid, it's a compromise of a gutless little gas engine trying to power a compact, but heavy car. (due to the weight of the electric motor and batteries)

It's been proved that there are gas-only small cars (not just econo cars like the Smart) that get better overall fuel economy than the Prius, so the only advantage that I can see with hybrids is the non-polluting time, using "electric only" power.

That's why an "electric only" car like the little beastie in the DVD that Mark is gonna send me (what a top bloke!) is, in my opinion, the ultimate for environment-friendly vehicles, so I just don't understand why we even bother with hybrids. Cheers, Terry.

[Retro Rocket]

Even the "all" electric cars are a compromise here in Aus, due to our filthy coal fired power stations.

Mick

[Bob Wessner]

Is the "Volt" another hybrid, like the Prius, Bob?

Hmm, sort of. As I understand the Volt, first 40 miles on the battery (assuming fully charged via plug-in), then after that a small engine produces additional elec. power via a generator.

I think electrics have a place, but some things need to be worked out. Still don't know how well the batteries work in excessive heat or cold, how long they will last and how much it costs to replace them. I've read studies that indicate we have the capacity to charge electrics... provided it is done off-peak hours. How's that to be regulated and controlled. Lots of unanswered questions.

[Joel]

Is the "Volt" another hybrid, like the Prius, Bob? I don't understand the hybrid, it's a compromise of a gutless little gas engine trying to power a compact, but heavy car. (due to the weight of the electric motor and batteries)

It's been proved that there are gas-only small cars (not just econo cars like the Smart) that get better overall fuel economy than the Prius, so the only advantage that I can see with hybrids is the non-polluting time, using "electric only" power.

That's why an "electric only" car like the little beastie in the DVD that Mark is gonna send me (what a top bloke!) is, in my opinion, the ultimate for environment-friendly vehicles, so I just don't understand why we even bother with hybrids. Cheers, Terry.

Hybrids such as the Prius and Volt are series hybrids where only the electric motor powers the wheels.  Series hybrids can be thought of as replacing the mechanical gearbox transmission with an electric transmission.  The electric transmission is infinitely variable within its range allowing the internal combustion engine to run at a single speed where it's most efficient.  Until battery technology advances, they are a compromise to allow range and "refueling" capabilities to remain comparable to gasoline powered vehicles.  The Tesla roadster uses high capacity, but more expensive, lithium batteries.  Many people only want or can afford one vehicle to serve both short-range commuting and long-range traveling needs.

[Joel]

Very few people need 700 horses.  That's one of the reasons we don't see more fuel efficient cars.  Drivers want powerful acceleration and good fuel economy.  Being mutually exclusive with current technology means compromising between the two.  Yet another good reason to ride a motorcycle.   

[Terry in Australia]

Even the "all" electric cars are a compromise here in Aus, due to our filthy coal fired power stations.

Mick

That's bloody true Mick, with a huge land mass with almost no population in the centre, I'm sure Kevin Rudd could build a huge wind or solar power station, to give us cleaner, greener energy.

That should keep the greenies happy, and provide a huge infrastructure program to give jobs to all the miners about to lose their jobs in outback Australia, due to the Chinese scaling back on their manufacturing operations because of the world-wide recession.

The only problem that I could see would be the "traditional owners" sensing an opportunity to demand some "Land Rights" bucks, (not that they'd actually want to get off their butts and actually work at the new power stations) and screwing the whole project.

Oh well, I still want a little electric car, even if it's gonna be a long wait...............

[Bob Wessner]

Terry,

Rick Wagoner just responded to my eMail request. He promises to deliver the first "Volt" to your door as soon as it is produced. 

[Joel]

There are a few websites out there with info on swapping the petrol engine out for an electric motor.  I've seen one or two that also have instructions on building a battery pack from individual cells.  It could probably be done for a few thousand dollars worth of parts.

[Terry in Australia]

Terry,

Rick Wagoner just responded to my eMail request. He promises to deliver the first "Volt" to your door as soon as it is produced. 

Are you sure Bob? I'm not doubting your good intentions, but there was the time you promised to send me some dope, and George W Bush knocked on my door? 

[BobbyR]

Electric cars make sense for local driving. When you get past the 40 miles you need some fuel. Since I commute 60 miles round trip I would only burn gas for 20 miles or so. I would gladly plug it in at night. On my 1,250 mile trips. The drill is empty my tank, fill the cars tank, and get back on the road ASAP.
One downside is that in the northeast and other places we actually have a winter. How do I heat the interior using an electric car?  

[cb650]

Here in the US the watermelons wont let nuclear produced electricity so it is COAL produced.  That is a no no. I imagine a accident with all the #$%* in a battery would be nasty. Anyhow the movie has played several times on PBS. 

[Ecosse]

Hybrids make more sense as urban cars; outside stop and go driving they have little benefit. One of the wisest applications I've seen is an experiment using Ford Escape 'SUV's' as New York City cabs.

From all the Euro mags I read it seems they didn't understand our (US) orgasmic acceptance of the hybrid over, say, the Euro spec diesel- low sulfur diesel. Diesel cars still have a bit of a stigma here. One periodical tested a Insight against a Polo diesel and decided the extra cost of the Honda wasn't worth it- overall economy (fuel & cost of operation) was about par. I think that among other factors the American acceptance of the hybrid is due in part because we are so enthralled by anything Japanese... cars/technology. And we know the Japanese are so heavily vested in hybrid technology whereas (correct me here) Europeans are favouring  diesel and fuel cell/hydrogen potential.

[Terry in Australia]

One downside is that in the northeast and other places we actually have a winter. How do I heat the interior using an electric car?  

G'Day Bobby, that's easy mate, before the Brits went to conventional heating in cars, they used under-dash electric heaters. (like a little fan heater)

My first car, a 1967 Aussie built (but US designed) Ford Falcon had a heater, but it wasn't fan forced, so took forever to warm the car and demist my windscreen.

I bought an accessory electric fan heater and plumbed it into the Fords vents, and it worked great. Cheers, Terry.

[Retro Rocket]

Love the "XR" falcon and fairmont, great cars, i have owned 5 V8 models .

[Terry in Australia]

Ha ha, now you're talking Mick, I've had the XR, (wheezy old 200 cube 6) XY, (GTHO PHIII 4V 351 and running gear from a "write off" in my GS Futura)
XA (302 Fairmont) XB (302 GS Fairmont) and XC GXL. (351)

I'd have any of them back now if I could, but the XY was my favourite, 150 MPH on the Hume Highway on more than one occasion, man, what a car that was!

I've just "inherited" a worked 4V 351 with a cracked piston out of a 1980's race car, all I need now is a car to put it in!

[Retro Rocket]

Very cool. I wish i had my XR GT, HK GTS and my SLR, all great cars....

Mick

[Bob Wessner]

Terry,

Rick Wagoner just responded to my eMail request. He promises to deliver the first "Volt" to your door as soon as it is produced. 

Are you sure Bob? I'm not doubting your good intentions, but there was the time you promised to send me some dope, and George W Bush knocked on my door? 

Sorry about that one. 

Rick did say not to hold your breath though, they still have a few kinks to work out.

[BobbyR]

One downside is that in the northeast and other places we actually have a winter. How do I heat the interior using an electric car?  

G'Day Bobby, that's easy mate, before the Brits went to conventional heating in cars, they used under-dash electric heaters. (like a little fan heater)

My first car, a 1967 Aussie built (but US designed) Ford Falcon had a heater, but it wasn't fan forced, so took forever to warm the car and demist my windscreen.

I bought an accessory electric fan heater and plumbed it into the Fords vents, and it worked great. Cheers, Terry.

I am with ya mate. Here is my problem. An electric heater would draw down some power from the batteries thereby decreasing the range of the vehicle.
I was looking at some of the buzz about using natural gas. I drove a natural gas Police Car in the 70's and with all the smog crap taken off the motor, it was really quick. With the Natural Gas, I would fuel up the car in my own garage using the gas that comes into the house.
I don't want to be the Ugly American here, but, my first car was a 1955 Ford I bought for $50.00, and it had a heater and a radio. Never saw an American car without fan forced heating and defrosting.