Topic: Lowering a 650's front end, Qs

[Frankenkit]

Hey, I'm working on lowering my 650 so I can flat foot it a little bit better, but the handlebars don't allow much room for me to slide up through the triple tree- 1/2" at best... I've seen posts ad nauseum about cutting springs (and not cutting springs)  tossing 750 tubes for 500/550 tubes b/c they're 2" shorter, PVC spacers, etc etc.  I'm not going to go the clip-on route because I'm a little short and pretty new and like the upright position a lot more. I'd use barbacks, but that's exactly where Honda put the 650's fuse box, unfortunately.  I don't want this to turn into a big production, I just want to be able to lower my front end to match or come close to my (proposed) 11" shock length.  I haven't installed the 11" shocks yet because I had a feeling just this kind of thing would happen.

I want to lower the bike as much as possible while still maintaining the stock angles as much as I can, though I guess I could tolerate the front being a bit higher than the rear, 'cruiser' style as long as it didn't affect handling to the point of being unsafe. 

If none of that's possible, I'd be interested in seeing if I could make the clip-on handlebars from a yam. venture work (and look good), because the angle should be right, extending right from the fork, that is... if only the internal diameter of the yamaha's clipon portion (or something similar) is 35mm.  Sadly, I haven't seen clip-ons like that anywhere else, and I think they look kinda neat.
here's a sorta lousy pic but you can get the point...



If all else fails, I can still reach the ground with this set-up, just not really well enough to *push* the bike anywhere very well, should I need to (like backing out of a space or something)  ...but I'd still like to find an answer.

I have a pic of what we're working with, cockpit wise... don't see much of the triple tree, but the handlebar overlaps it about 1/4-1/2 of an inch... didn't measure, shame on me...

[Really?]

That is interesting to see someone contemplating VR bars.  Those bars are kind of wide but very comfortable and adjustable.  Note that these bars have one bar wieght on one of the sides.  If needed, I can try and figure out why for you.  The mounting position of these VR bars on a VR would be closer together than when you mount them to the fork tubes (if you decide to go this route).  These bars are plentiful but some might be slightly bent from owners dropping these bikes on thier sides (800lb's).

I do not know the size and setup of the bars on the 650 but would a little shorter handlbars (to match your current handlebar top height) and dogbones (to make the mounting point in the center of the bars higher) help you sliding the tubes up more than you already have?   I hope that made sense.

I think I have seen a bike from a frequent member that used dogbones and dragbars on his bike. I cannot remember who it was.

Hope I help at least a tad. 

Edit:  I was just looking at your recent pics.  If you use the VR bars, there is a strong chance you will not be able to mount your shield.  The silver/black center bar pieces are not round.  They are rectangular.

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Clip-ons or bars like you gave that clamp directly to the fork tube can be shimmed.  That is to say you can buy a larger diameter than your fork tubes and use a slotted steel spacer.  Slotted to allow the clamping action to still occur and steel so they don't compress.  I added an additional safety feature by using a small paint mark on each bar to indicate to be if they had slipped or moved.  I used this method on the red Yamaha Street Tracker on my site. 

http://kingcustomcycles.com/pastprojects.html

[fishhead]

They wont fit on the fork tubes like clip on handlebars. The Virago has a very simular style handle bar and it mounts to a stud on top of the triple tree (Maybe 15mm in diameter). The pic shows the same type of bars on a Virago.
  Clip on bars with a rise like what you want were made years ago for Rickman, Montesa or Bultaco. Actually I'm not sure who they were made for, but they were made years ago. I think it was probably Bultaco.
 

[HavocTurbo]

Kit -

PM me a pic or post it here of your actual set-up. I might be able to do something about it.

[Hush]

I have same problem with my Custom Kit, am trying to figure out how to lower it for Jaffa.
You are right about the forks, you only get about half an inch then you hit the bottom of the bars.
Would decreasing the amount of oil in the forks work?
I remember in my youth (last week) changing the fork oil on my Suzuki T350, I put an apple box under the frame, took off the tops of the forks and filled them up (who knew?) anyhow when I removed the apple box the bike stayed up in the air and I rode around with extended forks for a few weeks until I realised that cornering was becoming decidedly dodgy.
Would it work the other way round by lowering the fork oil or do Honda springs go from top to bottom of forks?

[CBJoe]

I believe that the '81 CB650 (not custom... ie. standard) had shorter forks.  I'm pretty sure that it was just the springs and the tubes that were shorter. 

Here's a picture of the three different sets of forks.  Left is '81 CB650C - Middle is '81 CB650 - Right is '80 CB650C

Might be an option if you find a good deal on a set.

Cheers...Joe

[CBJoe]

the 81 standard was a single disk front as well, so you'd be able to use the same brake setup.

Joe

[Frankenkit]

Woah, Joe.  interesting pics... I had no idea.  That'd be interesting to investigate.


Ok, these pics are a little big, but I hope they show what you need to see.  I tried to post a pic this morning but for some weird reason, it kept coming up sideways, and I had to rush to school...

This one is from last year with the original drag bars on (they stretched me out way too far over the tank) but you can kinda see how it juuuust doesn't clear the base of the handlebar, as I think Hush can attest. That was at its max with the edge of the top of the fork touching the handlebar.

Here's the fuse box, in the least convenient place it could be at the moment, and another view of the drag bars...

...and here's a shot of the current bars that I want to keep if at all possible, and for some dumb reason I actually lowered the forks through the triple tree after rebuilding them because I didn't remember (from the previous batch of pics) where they were 'supposed' to be.

[HavocTurbo]

Ok... sorry for all the requests but....

Can you take a pic of the fuse box cover off?

I want to see how the bars mount to the top clamp.

[Frankenkit]

That I need to probably do tomorrow morning, but what it is, is , the bottom is set up a lot like regular "dog bones" handlebar clamps, two allen bolts go through the fuse box on either side (four total) and simultaneously clamp the handlebar in place and hold the fuse box.  Two phillips screws hold the top of the fuse box on.

Here are some ebay shots in the mean-time...

Triple clamp, two nubbins at the bottom to (I think?) support the fuse box...

Fuse box sits on top with the four bolts acting as a handlebar clamp.

There's the whole shebang, minus accessories, and I think there you can get a better idea of alignment.  I photoshopped a yellow line that I think is properly aligned per the angle of the triple tree- drew the lines from one fork clamp to the other, then moved them to where the handlebar would come through, just to see it.

[Frankenkit]

This has become a curiosity for me... tell me what you think...
(relocating the fuse box)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20035.msg208557#msg208557

[CBJoe]

If you relocate the fusebox, you might be able to put some handlebar risers on there. 

EDIT:  I'd get some other opinions on risers though.  I have never used them and i'm not sure how that would effect handling and such.

Cheers, Joe

[Frankenkit]

the plan of action on that thread is usu. implemented on bikes where the fuse box is under the seat.  For the 650 I'd have to find somewhere to put them that they'd be protected from the elements.  What I like about it, though, is how it implements bladed fuses that I could get at any hardware store or gas station, a major plus with these old bikes.

I want to keep all this minimal if I can, but if subtle risers or barbacks would work, that'd be great. It's a shame I can't just put the angles of the bars in a vise, or take a hammer to them or something to create juuuust enough operating room for those fork tubes...

Oh, CBJoe, those '81s are air-assisted, right? how do they work/feel compared to the old school versions?

[Hush]

OK been out staring at my old girls in the shed, the 82 Custom is totally diff to the 82 Police bike, even the forks are thicker on the Custom and they have like air hoses on top?
The Custom does have one edge though, single bars, like there are two separate pieces, looks totally unsafe to me but does give more room to let forks slide up through the top of the triple.
My serious suggestion Kit is to fit your "shorties" and see how the bike looks/feels then play with the front end if you have to.
You could then use lower bars to alter your riding position.
I just fitted some on Jaffas 400 from a guy who imports them and they are wider than originals but lower too.
Harley make something that would work for you and they get fitted on choppers with a single bar across the top that the controls go onto, (harley unfortunately use 1 inch tubes and we use I think 7/8ths).
You could stuff your fuses in your headlight bucket or just relocate them into a waterproof case and shove them into the triple tree area, this would save you time and $$$ on rewiring etc.
Anyhow apart from your Frankenstien wish list, how is your bike going generally?
Oh yeah and how do you find your bikes handling with the screen? I fitted one on my Police bike and am interested to know.

[Frankenkit]

I like the screen but will probably want to tip it up a little more, I get kind of a lot of wind in my face instead of at the top of my helmet.  At least it's not hitting me square in the chest like before!  It snowed pretty good here and she ended up sitting for about a month, and I didn't drain the carb bowls, so #4's slow jet is clogged. (part of that was the rust and some kind of sandy crap from the old tank that kept somehow making it through the petcock filter AND the inline filter... )  so with the new tank, I'm hoping to avoid some of that garbage...

 I'm waiting to take the carbs off and clean them until I have my new throttle cable in because the motionpro one just isn't cutting it (too long) oh, and Honda apparently discontinued their 'push' cables for the 650.  Bollocks. 

After that, it's time for a valve re-check and carb sync because having lapped new valves in etc last year, I think I put enough miles on that I need to check the clearances again.

I guess I should say I want to keep things as stock-looking as possible if I can, but if I HAVE to replace the fork tubes with shorter ones, I'll want to put the rubber boots up front to save the tubes. ...but I really, really don't want to have to replace the tubes. that costs $$.

[Really?]

One thing I did notice when I changed out the stock ape hangers to the superbike bars, the tubes did slide up a bit further.  Where the bars started the first bend, right in the middle of the bars where they mount, they started the bend before the stock ape hangers.  This gave the tubes a little more room to move up.  Might be a cheap option, just new bars.

[HavocTurbo]

Check out these...

How high are you looking to go?

eBay item numbers....

300281918580   
290284084203
290284084186
300281918575

Black and aluminum.

[Really?]

I can't even figure out how those work.

[HavocTurbo]

I can't even figure out how those work.

The risers??

They clamp in place with longer bolts. Pretty standard stuff. Just a different design.

I admit.... they look a little weird.

[Really?]

You mean between the clamp and the bar, bending around the bar at the same time?  That is the best I can get my brain to picture.

[754]

Didnt click on the ebay link,
but, Sounds like you are talking about those spacers that go under the bars, use your top clamp then longer bolts.. it would be a simple 20 min fix..

[HavocTurbo]

Didnt click on the ebay link,
but, Sounds like you are talking about those spacers that go under the bars, use your top clamp then longer bolts.. it would be a simple 20 min fix..

Bingo!!!

[754]

They look like an early 750 bar clamp, or 450 or 350.. from the side
BUT.. on the face opposite of the half-moon cutout.. there is a halfmoon solid to fill the hole..

just picture them early riser clamps upside down over the the notch for the handlebar on the triple-tree. Then place the bar in that, riser cap above that (or fuse holder), then bolt down with longer bolts..

[Frankenkit]

we talkin' something shaped like this?