Topic: Urban four-wheel drives....

[Terry in Australia]

OK, we all buy our vehicles a little as a status symbol, but I find stupid to buy it only for that.
Raul

Well, I don't own a car (my company Toyota pickup doesn't count) at the moment, but I've never owned a new car, like Gordy I'd prefer to buy a good used car for half the retail after only a couple of years, so much for the "Status Symbol" theory, ha ha!

I'm not a "Euro Trash" fan though, some people here spend enormous money on new Mercs, Beemers, Audi's etc, but for mine, I'd much rather have an Aussie or American Muscle-Car, with a real engine, not a pissy 4 or 5 (what's going on there?) cylinder engine with a turbo hanging off it just to keep up with real cars that produce stump pulling torque, not just Bhp.

Funny thing is that old Mercs, BMW's, Audi's, Volvo's etc, are cheaper than a lot of other cars because of the ridiculous price of spare parts, and "specialist" servicing. My cuz bought a very clean late 1980's merc for his daughter, because the head-gasket was blown, and the owner decided that it wasn't worth repairing! Gimme a 4V 351 Cleveland any day. (or Buffo's Suburban, woohoo!) Cheers, Terry.

[Uncle Ernie]

Give me a '60 Morris Minor Traveller, '62 Volvo 122S painted Dodge truck grey with little blue and purple ghost flames and full Moons, a '54 Citroen Traction Avant, a '62 MGA Coupe, same year TR3, '38 Morgan 3 wheeler, any Datsun Fairlady, '70 280Z, mid-'60s Lotus, '65 VW Bug, '60 Plymouth Valient w slant 6, '62 Falcon w a 289...
~you kinda got me going there.

[popeye]

economics 101......due to the current price of fuel, the price of gently used (soccer mom) SUVs has plumeted....for the price of a clapped out adolescent abused civic or neon POS one could be driving a durable, comfortable, safe, luxurious, go anywhere, seriously spacious loadhauler....one could buy a (nice) comperable year and mileage compact gas saver at a premium price...but...with the current price differential, one could buy a hell of a lot of gas at todays prices and drive with some class.......go figure....( social issue...when hydrogen powered SUVs become available, I'll be first in line to buy one....let's put the onus where it belongs...unresponsive government...greedy energy companies...penny-pinching manufacturers).....my dos centavos...(one last thing...in the event of a head-on crash...would you rather have your wife and children riding in a big SUV or a Mini?)

[MetalHead550]

Id rather they where in a wide assed 2 ton B-body Chevy that gets 25mpg on the highway with an LT1 and wont flip a million times after the impact because its not top heavy!

[mick750F]

Id rather they where in a wide assed 2 ton B-body Chevy that gets 25mpg on the highway with an LT1 and wont flip a million times after the impact because its not top heavy!

  Mr. Impala speaks his mind! I always liked those myself...the wagon more so. 

Mike

[egar]

You know what they say about SUVs. The bigger it is, the more likely you're compensating for some kind of , er, inadequacy.

[DRam]

I have been following this for the last few days and collecting thoughts.  In general I don't care what anyone drives.  My own transportation consists of a CB650, a CBR1000F, a Honda Civic and a Dogde 3/4 ton 4wd.  As well a my feet and a bicycle.  All get used when appropriate, and it seems the bike are most appropriate whenever there isn't snow and ice on the road.  The Civic is most appropraite unless lumber, garbage, bikes, etc. need to be carried since they won't fit in the Civic.  Now that I've admitted my guilt in owning and occassionaly driving a monster sized vehicle, I will rant about SUV's.  SUV's (which I define as anything larger than a Jeep Grand Whatever, 4wd or 2wd) irritate me no end.  They are oversized, clumsy, inefficient, and generally unecessary.  Vehicles half their size will accomplish the same tasks while using far less resources to manufacture and run.  They are a pain to follow down the highway - nothing can been seen past them, or through the frequently blacked-out windows.   On one hand I realize it is the consumer's right to pay buckets of money to buy something that costs an arm and a leg to fill the tank, on the other I see it as an incredible waste of a limited resource.  What began as a vehicle to used by business that needed a cargo carrier that would also carry people and were, for their day, not much more inefficient than the general run of vehicles, have become a (see above description) status symbol for those who feel the need to impress everyone else with their wealth - and that is the SUV's total reason for existence today.  The excuse of "we have to drive in snow" doesn't impress me, especially from those who never get off the pavement.  Smaller 4wd drive vehicles will go just about anywhere one needs to go.  And, with snow tires my Honda Civic, and the Ford Crown Victoria we owned prior to that, have taken us everywhere in Montana during all seasons in all weather with no problems.  Monster SUV's just aren't needed.  But then, I'm living in a house twice as big as I need (2800 sq. ft.), and have a bike that travels twice as fast as anyone ever needs to travel.  Maybe I have no room to gripe.

[pmpski_1]

But I can't help finding ridiculous how many people get into debt for buying a car not as transportation, but mere status symbol. OK, we all buy our vehicles a little as a status symbol, but I find stupid to buy it only for that.

Raul

I have to admit, my CB550 is a bit of a status symbol to me. It symbolizes taking something old that somebody doesn't want or can't fix, and using my brain to figure it out and get it going. (And my brain to ask the geniuses on this board for help .

I love it when I'm next to some person on a new bike (usually a Harley, but that's another thread), decked out in the latest fashionable gear, shiny chrome, and a dealer tech tuned engine. You see the familiar biker smile or wave, but they know that they bought it and you brought it back to life.

[dpen]

pmpski 1  you are a genius.

In your last sentence you stated the meaning of life.

You are truly a blessed man.

[Gordon]

You bought it, I brought it back to life!

I want to stencil that on the back of my helmet so they can read it as I'm passing them.

[mcpuffett]

here's a picture of my other half's new car ,it is very nice to drive it has all the toys as they say ,leather seats electric this that and the other,air bags ,good sound system ,it was cheap won it on ebay and i know she and the kids will be safe in it     mick.

[Uncle Ernie]

That's funny. Speaking of resurection- I was sitting at a light on my Indian and this guy pulls up next to me. After a couple seconds he shouts over, "Sounds like one of your valves is loose!"   I yelled back, "Yeah. It needs a little tune-up- they're all supposed to sound that way!"

                                                                   Yeee-HAW- Gitty- UP! 

[bryanj]

OK, OK, I got a shed full of parts that will someday get resurrected, a kit car based on a Fiat panda 4x4 (YES a FIAT PANDA---Awsome mechaniclals, instant rust body) But my daily is a Mitsubishi L200 4x4 4 door pickup. Second ever new vehicle--first one was a Mitsubishi 2 door pickup Both got Very dirty on the first day out. Before that a gas guzzling 304 Jeep Cherokee that had been stretched and converted to a pickup. As an ex "spanner man" I just got fed up at working on my own stuff. Now the rant:-
Cant these green minded idiots keep their damned nose out of my businees, I earn the sodin money and i will waste it as i want and as for the F*%$i*g government and their taxes every time i depen my pockets they grow their arms!!

[Terry in Australia]

here's a picture of my other half's new car ,it is very nice to drive it has all the toys as they say ,leather seats electric this that and the other,air bags ,good sound system ,it was cheap won it on ebay and i know she and the kids will be safe in it     mick.

Wot's it called Mick, a "Freeloader"? Ha ha, Cheers, Terry.

[Gordon]

No one's complaining about people owning large gas-hog vehicles if they actually put them to good use.  And as for spending your own money however you want, that's perfectly fine, too.  It's when we're talking about using up a limited resource that everyone has to share, that inefficient use of large vehicles becomes a problem. 

Think about it like this:  If you were locked in a building with several other people and a limited amount of food, wouldn't you be kind of pissed at the two really fat guys who have to eat three times as much as you just to maintain their weight? 

Anyway, I'm really just playing devil's advocate here.  I may not own any gas-guzzling trucks, but I do tend to take long, pointless rides on my bike and use up several gallons of gas just because it makes me happy.

[mcpuffett]

yep something like that,or is that what she call's me   lol mick.

[Terry in Australia]

You know that the dumbest thing about this whole argument is that the world oil shortage is something that could be easily avoided if our governments weren't in bed with the oil companies to the point where they have not financed the development of alternate fuel technology.

Someone mentioned hydrogen, but ethyl-alchohol (Ethanol) has been around for years, is cheap, and a renewable resource. Trouble is, the lobbyists that work for the big oil companies have frightened generations of governments away from this technology, so we'll all live in the shadow of a world wide oil crisis and bend over while the Arabs rape us at the pumps, right up until everything grinds to a halt, unless we put some pressure on our governments to act now. Cheers, Terry.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel

[Bob Wessner]

Terry,

I agree for the most part, but couldn't get the link to open for me. My biggest concern about alternative fuels is are we really being told the truth about the cost, or possible consequences. I don't know, just asking. What is the true cost of ethanol from planting to harvest, to process and what fuel is used for these processes. What would happen if this were to succeed and become the primary source of energy and we had a major, prerhaps multi-year drought? Some similar cost questions about hydrogen.

I've just never seen it all laid out and we humans have repeatedly ignored the law of unintended consequences.

[mick750F]

You know that the dummest thing about this whole argument is that the world oil shortage is something that could be easily avoided if our governments weren't in bed with the oil companies to the point where they have not financed the development of alternate fuel technology.

Someone mentioned hydrogen, but ethyl-alchohol (Ethanol) has been around for years, is cheap, and a renewable resource. Trouble is, the lobbyists that work for the big oil companies have frightened generations of governments away from this technology, so we'll all live in the shadow of a world wide oil crisis and bend over while the Arabs rape us at the pumps, right up until everything grinds to a halt, unless we put some pressure on our governments to act now. Cheers, Terry.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_fuel

   The Carter administration instituted financial incentives for the developement of alternative energy sources. When Reagan was elected one of his first acts was to eliminate those very incentives. I wonder where we would be now if those incentives had remained in place. Possibly in a much better situation as far as reliance on oil goes.

Mike

[Terry in Australia]

And considering that the Bush family got all their money from the Saudi Royal Family, don't think things are gonna get better under the present administration. Cheers, Terry.

[dusterdude]

i seem to remember hearing and/or reading about ethanol eating the rubber parts of the fuel systems it comes in contact with.anyone know if that is true or not.

[Bob Wessner]

I believe that was an issue when ethanol was first introduced, but since then auto manufacturers have made necessary changes to accommodate ethanol.

[dusterdude]

cool,thanks bob

[Uncle Ernie]

So in other words, when all you can get is ethanol, go in the back yard and bury your cool stuff.

Well, if you're worried about wasting resources, how much are you using in materials and energy to make new vehicles? I'm saving the planet by running my old bikes and cars.
To paraphrase the NRA- the only way you're getting my old biikes is by prying them out of my cold, stiff fingers.

             Thank you Jesus! Can I get a witness?! Where's the choir?!  A-MEN ! ! ! !
 
And I'm serious! The government of the USA can't even rinse out it's own underwear-

[DRam]

Uncle Ernie, you and I seem to think a lot alike.  I like the old stuff too.  You don't have to bury it though.  All you'll have to do is change out the fuel lines and maybe the float valves (sometimes called float needles) - if they have rubber tips, and perhaps the o-rings in your carbs.  A couple hour's work and away you go, although with less power and perhaps not quite the mileage you're used to.