Topic: So are you sure you wanna buy a Mac ,huh?

[Spikeybike]

expect the hot lava after one season



i took alot of little short trips  (sneak in a ride here and there ya know)



i just found this just now,   i think i have some navel jelly, but have never had good results with it,  aside from media blasting it out,  what can i do 

[Spikeybike]

in the past i was always against a drain hole, because ,it was my thinking that a hole drilled in the pipes would be breading ground for rust.     i see now that not having one can be just as bad.       

[mark]

.........  what can i do 

get some o' them stainless ones from Benjie.

[mark]

.........  what can i do 

braze up the holes when they happen.

[Spikeybike]

get some o' them stainless ones from Benjie.

but i really like the 4 to 1  look and sound ,     wish i could find a kerger, i gave up looking long ago

maybe i'll try The Works,  i've been wanting to see that trick in action for years since i read about it here
then if that doesnt work
 i'm thinking i will go , ...blast it - coat it - wrap it - f@ck it

[bender01]

Wow. Im  Going to pull my baffle on my 350f soon! To take a look. Ive been thinking of losing it anyway. (Might as well sound like im going fast since fast isnt an option) Ive been modifying/removing it bit by bit anyway.

[Terry in Australia]

Drill a drain hole or two Spiker, then run some two stroke fuel through yer engine occasionally, and it'll never rust out. Cheers, Terry.

[TwoTired]

Drill a drain hole or two Spiker, then run some two stroke fuel through yer engine occasionally, and it'll never rust out. Cheers, Terry.

Why won't the two stroke oil gunk up the back of the intake valve?

Cheers,

[KingCustomCycles.com]

Your short trips are what is killing you.  Heat will eliminate that sort of condensation build-up.  If you think that is bad, imagine what kind of water has accumulated in your oil.  Oil has to reach the boiling point at least once a month, somewhere in the engine, to boil off the accumulated fuel and water.  Moral of the story? ride hard, ride long, and ride often.

[Spikeybike]

 i took plenty of long rides too , more so even.   real moral here: pipes need a drain hole .

and there was nothing in the oil

[goon 1492]

There is a way to use electrolysis, using the same method that is used for removing rust from inside the gas tank. If I can find the link off of powerblocktv's site I will post a link.
 

[MCRider]

i took plenty of long rides too , more so even.   real moral here: pipes need a drain hole .

and there was nothing in the oil

Long trips won't undo the damage done by the short trips. Condensation occurs then rust.

Still you're correct, needs a weep hole.

Terry's idea of running some oil through the gas is clever.

Still needs a weep hole.

Or you could park it at a steep angle. 

[johnyvilla]

Spikey: That's really weird. I live in your neck of the woods, and my Mac system has no rust after two seasons.

[sparty]

Spikey: That's really weird. I live in your neck of the woods, and my Mac system has no rust after two seasons.

johny, you might be running a richer bike and hence have coated your pipes with some carbon, which will deter rusting.  The insides of my Kerker have a nice thin layer of carbon because I was sure to run rich for just that purpose.  A leaner mixture with new pipes = rust in my experience.

[Spikeybike]

i'll have to keep that in mind ..    less fuel= more air .  more air = oxidation 

and i already have to rejet all over again because of the ported head.  so whateva

[scondon]

i'll have to keep that in mind ..    less fuel= more air .  more air = oxidation 

and i already have to rejet all over again because of the ported head.  so whateva

    Hypothesize, experiment, observe, and revise. All for the sake of a bigger,better mousetrap. That's where the real fun is, right Spikey. Of course the riding part is pretty fun too  

[billybobobrain]

The more efficiant the burn the more moisture in the exhaust, I think I would do the "hole" thing and clean the pipe.

[Spikeybike]

    Hypothesize, experiment, observe, and revise. All for the sake of a bigger,better mousetrap. That's where the real fun is, right Spikey. Of course the riding part is pretty fun too  

hit the nail on the head with that one Scondon


the Works is in fact "the business" , that stuff works fast 




now i'm coat the inside with something, not sure what yet ,

[Terry in Australia]

Drill a drain hole or two Spiker, then run some two stroke fuel through yer engine occasionally, and it'll never rust out. Cheers, Terry.

Why won't the two stroke oil gunk up the back of the intake valve?

Cheers,

No mate, why would an occasional tankful of gas with a little two stroke oil mixed through it cause any problems? It's an old remedy for rusty pipes (and to help prevent gas tanks rusting too) that goes back to the days when our bikes were new, and the OEM pipes would often rust out in one season.

The two stroke oil mist just coats the interior of the pipe, and creates a waterproof barrier. I've never heard of this "cure" causing any problems with valves, and I suspect you'd need a heck of a lot of oil to gunk up the valves. Dirty engine oil in old worn cylinders would be a more common cause, I'd imagine.

I've also heard of guys using a cup of diesel fuel in a tank of gas to loosen up sticky valves in cars, (I put some in my oil once, which worked well in my old Ford V8 to loosen up a sticky lifter when I tried it many years ago) and even transmission fluid in the fuel, as an "upper cylinder lubricant".

I've got stainless steel pipes on my BMW K1100LT, beautifully made as you'd expect with 1.6mm wall thickness header pipes, but the problem with SS is that it's brittle, and so far I've had to weld broken header pipes up twice in three years. (not a real problem, considering the bike has now done 100,000 miles without any other repairs of note)

If you're gonna use them, make sure that the pipe is well "clamped" at either end of the pipe, I suspect that my rubber mounted, (but heavy) OEM muffler assembly occasionally "flexing" on rough Aussie roads is exacerbating the situation, and if it wasn't such a nice quiet touring device, I'd install a smaller, lighter muffler. Cheers, Terry.

[scondon]

now i'm coat the inside with something, not sure what yet ,

   I've been using copious amounts of VHT 2000degree paint to coat the inside of my headers. I don't know about the rust preventing qualities of this paint but the smoke and the smell of the very first start-up are not to be missed.

[goon 1492]

what about using some of that cylinder fog and spray up the pipes?

[JLeather]

I've got stainless steel pipes on my BMW K1100LT, beautifully made as you'd expect with 1.6mm wall thickness header pipes, but the problem with SS is that it's brittle, and so far I've had to weld broken header pipes up twice in three years. (not a real problem, considering the bike has now done 100,000 miles without any other repairs of note)

If you're gonna use them, make sure that the pipe is well "clamped" at either end of the pipe, I suspect that my rubber mounted, (but heavy) OEM muffler assembly occasionally "flexing" on rough Aussie roads is exacerbating the situation, and if it wasn't such a nice quiet touring device, I'd install a smaller, lighter muffler. Cheers, Terry.

I find that strange Terry.  I've run SS exhaust on my car for years, header included, with no problems.  I don't even think mine is that thick on the walls.  Must be from flexing or something.

[Terry in Australia]

I find that strange Terry.  I've run SS exhaust on my car for years, header included, with no problems.  I don't even think mine is that thick on the walls.  Must be from flexing or something.

Yeah, I think you're right mate, I meant to post a question on the BMW site I occasionally look at to see if the problem was common with my model bike, but I haven't yet. I'm assuming that the cracking is caused by the weight of the muffler assembly (big heavy thing) not well enough clamped to the frame.

It cracked the first time around 3 years ago (just before I bought it) and although the repairer did a beautiful job of welding, then polishing the repair, it cracked through the repair, and cracked through the header pipe beside it.

When I welded it this time, I also welded all the header pipes together, (the headers run parallel about 5-6mm apart at the point where they broke) so it probably won't be an issue now, although I'm tempted to add another bracket off the muffler to the frame.

I've always wanted a SS exhaust on my car, then I can build my hydrogen booster, and not worry about the pipe rusting out. Cheers, Terry.

[Spikeybike]

 I've been using copious amounts of VHT 2000degree paint to coat the inside of my headers. I don't know about the rust preventing qualities of this paint but the smoke and the smell of the very first start-up are not to be missed.

thats exactly what i did , lots of it ,    hoooly sh1t that stuff is noxious.  i mean seriously ,  filled the house ,from the garage.   if the start up smell tops that , plus smoke . ... that should be fun 

coated the outside as well , and was already planning on wrapping it ,  and went back and forth on weather to use black or grey , ....at first ,black was the obvious choice.  but everyone always does black (or tan) . then i saw the grey and thought i'll go with that , ...then changed my mind again and ordered black, and the guy sent grey instead, i figured it was a sign from the bike gods that i should go with my first choice   



this should have been a pic of it on the bike but , i totally forgot to get the mounting hardware,..... my new head has the exhaust studs removed so i can use puurty shiny ones instead  (to bad i forgot to get um  )

[ev0lve]

Hey, would you mind giving a quick rundown of how you wrapped your headers? I picked up a used Kerker and if I can't shine the chrome up on it and get rid of the rust I'm thinking I'll wrap em. Top to bottom? Collector to top? How do you transition from 2 to 1 etc? Any tips at all cause those look pretty damn good.

Thanks

[goon 1492]

+1 on the wrap and what Iggy asked, that looks good dude. Where did you get the gray from I haven't seen it in Jegs or summit catalogs, is that two thin stainless pipe straps at the end by the collector?
I plan on giving the header that you fixed for mike that I got like this, hopefully this paycheck I can get the cherry bomb pipe bought and see how much it is to get the header ends flared so I can use the original spigots and clamps that came with my original 4into4's. The gray you used will go killer with the dark bronze hammered paint I am going to do, I just gotta source a fishtail muffler tip.......
Man you gotta show new pics of the beast when its all back together!

[KingCustomCycles.com]

I start at the rear and work forward wrapping very tightly so each layer holds the last layer tightly and starting at the rear keeps the wind from trying to lift each seam.  It takes 2 or 3 tries to get the woven fiberglass wrap to form and fit snuggly.  Wear latex gloves or you will itch between your fingers for days.  Rural King Farm Stores sell stainless steel tye wraps that are the hot set-up for securing.  Also available on ebay from the same guys that sell the header wrap.  I have also used a double row of aircraft safety wire to secure the ends.  Does this make me a rapper?

[billybobobrain]

I start at the rear and work forward wrapping very tightly so each layer holds the last layer tightly and starting at the rear keeps the wind from trying to lift each seam.  It takes 2 or 3 tries to get the woven fiberglass wrap to form and fit snuggly.  Wear latex gloves or you will itch between your fingers for days.  Rural King Farm Stores sell stainless steel tye wraps that are the hot set-up for securing.  Also available on ebay from the same guys that sell the header wrap.  I have also used a double row of aircraft safety wire to secure the ends.  Does this make me a rapper?

If you had a pink bike with a clown face, you could be a gangster rapper!

[goon 1492]

Aaaahaa I found stainless straps.
http://www.jegs.com/p/JEGS/762522/10002/-1

Found header wrap, they got black graphite, white and copper impreginated.
The copper sounds interesting, wonder if it will patina and look like it came off a old stove......
Found these stainless straps too but the first ones listed above sound better.
http://www.jegs.com/p/Thermo+Tec/744851/10002/-1
Here's summit's selection...
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?Ntt=header+wrap&N=700+115+4294923429&Ntk=KeywordSearch
So how much did you use spikeybike,50ft?

[Spikeybike]

So how much did you use spikeybike,50ft?

yup , i think the seller cut it long , there was alot left over (like 5 or 6 ft)

i wrapped um from the top down, i've read about those who start at the bottom because of wind pulling it or it keeps dirt out of the seams, but i don't really think thats a big deal (not to me anyway ) 

when i put it on later, i'll get some shots for ya goon

[Spikeybike]

here's were i got from ,   i was just doing it for looks so i didn't need the fancy stuff
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150321190805&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

and yes, wear gloves,  my hands itched for the better part of two days . 

[BobbyR]

Pour some waste oil into the pipe. Slosh it around, put it back on and ride. The oil burns and leaves a nice crust inside to protect the pipe. Just like Terry's two stroke oil in the gas but quicker.

[NitroHunter]

I had my turbo header internally ceramic coated, HPC or something I don't recall. There's no rust, but it was expensive and the chrome still wants to blue...
The silver exterior coatings look great, work great, but aren't so shiny 

[Terry in Australia]

The problem that I can see with the wrap is that if you wrap it from the top down it will allow moisture ingress when riding in the rain, washing your bike, etc.

It's a bit like a weatherboard house, they fix the boards on the frame so that water runs off it, not into it. KC's method works like the weatherboard house theory.

Someone else posted on another thread that wrapped headers will rust out very quickly, due to water trapped in "Dams" created by bridging two pipes with the tape when you get close to the collector. Not a problem I guess on 4 individual headers, but not so good on 4 into 1's etc. Cheers, Terry.  

[ev0lve]

Hmmm, maybe high temp paint down to the collector then if I can't get it to shine. Arg. Choices.

[Terry in Australia]

Hmmm, maybe high temp paint down to the collector then if I can't get it to shine. Arg. Choices.

Actually the high temp paint goes really well over chrome mate, when I "modified" my 4 into 1 pipe on my Suzuki GS1000 I had to chop and extend all four lovely chrome headers, so once I'd ground the welds etc, I just etch primed them and shot a thin coat of VHT "Black Ice" header paint on them, the beauty is that due to the chrome not being pitted like most painted headers, they look like new! Cheers, Terry.