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Author Topic: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)  (Read 6234 times)

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Offline cben750f0

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using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« on: April 10, 2005, 04:32:19 AM »
this is the resault of haveing a look at the coil boost drawing in the coils and ignition post in the FAQ posts.

 picture (1) you may notice that i have wired a new fuse box in... the red wire at the top is for the power from the starter coil (+) to a 10A fuse in my new fuse box

picture (2) is of the place were i mounted the relay.
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2005, 05:18:35 AM »
picture (3) shows the shrink wrap used to tidy up the cables to the coils, and kill switch, also a better shot of were i put the relay.

picture (4) show the vf1000/750 coils on thier modified mounts, also the added heavier gauge wire for ground, attatched to the same point as the honda earth.The blue wire is the switching wire from the kill switch, and the red wire with the black plug is the 12V wire straight from the battery.

   i managed to do the hole lot without modifying the stock wireing, so if need be, it can be removed and the kill switch wire will plug straight into the coils again...

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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2005, 05:23:03 AM »
the last shot is of the VF coils showing were the ignition leads come from.... peace
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Ibsen

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2005, 06:36:24 AM »
It looks very tidy. :)
Is this the bike bike with the Dyna ignition, or do you still have the points?
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Mr. Grimm

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2005, 05:41:59 PM »
Good going on the upgrade to the fuse box. I'm thinking about doing a similar job. Does the relay/new coils increase your peformance?
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2005, 04:30:22 AM »
yes am running the dyna 's'.. and the coils are 3.6 ohm fv 1000 coils.... gives you a heap better spark... to the point were it seems the bike is running lean with the better spark... funny how things affect each other.... let me know if you want anymore pics..peace
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funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
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Ibsen

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2005, 05:23:19 AM »
It seems that one of the effects from converting to an aftermarket electronic ignition system is that it is running a bit leaner. Or more accurate, that the spark is stronger and the fuel will be burnt more sufficent, and you will need less fuel to produce the same amount of power. Also the spark will occure more presicely. So all in all, the fuel consumption will improve, the bike will run better, and you will gain a little bit power. :)
I believe that fitting an electronic ignition system is the best mod that you can do to these old bikes. :)
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2005, 04:09:54 PM »
agreed, my bike when i got wouldnt pull past 6500rpm... just went flat... changed the points and condensers... didnt change anything..... put the  dyna on... bloody 'ell :o... just wants to rev.... weird... 
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Sandcast 2356

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2005, 06:34:18 PM »
I would love to get electronic ignition, but I've actually had a good experience with the stock ignition. When I got it, the points and timing were way off, got new points, and adjusted the timing, and we're off.
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Jeremy

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2005, 06:47:40 PM »
Who has done this mod and was it succesful?
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2005, 10:05:15 PM »
i did.. hence the pics, and yes it was bloody succsessfull... ;D... well worth the time to be done properly... if you want anymore pics, just pm me...peace
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you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
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Offline Raul CB750K1

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2005, 12:32:02 AM »
I don't discard to upgrade in the future, but I'm also very satisfied with the points and condensers. The bike have enough power with them. Which brand is better? For how much do they sell?

Raul
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Mikeshonda750F

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2005, 04:43:03 AM »
Im curious, how exactly is the relay boosting power to the coils? I looked at your pics, I checked out the drawing of using the kill switch as a trigger and still cant figure out how it acomplishes anything the factory setup fails to.

At 1st I thought you were using a relay to replace the points, but using the points as a trigger for the relay...causing the points to trigger a few hundred MA to energize the relay, and the relay energizing the coils, allowing you to run much higher power coils and not burning up the points. But the more I looked into your wiring and the MSPaint drawing it seems more like all the relay is doing.. well.. pretty much nothing but giving you a different way to kill the bike.

Please straighten me out.
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2005, 04:57:55 AM »
the prob with the standard system is that power has to go through the small guage honda wireing loom, too the kill switch, then back to the coils, this bypasses all this and is direct from battery to the coils,cos i have used larger gauge cable, the power to the battery is the full 12V... as opposed to going trought a half dozen 30 yo connectors, and joiners.... this is my take, if i could have taken a picture of the spark b4 and after, then that would prove my point... peace
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cub

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2005, 07:04:21 AM »
In the FAQ it say "On the models with a points ignition system, the spark on the spark plugs can be improved by feeding the coils with power directly from the battery".

Would this work with a CB650 with the CDI setup? I have 650 engine in a CB500 frame with the 500 coils and the spark is a bit weak. I know I could buy new coils buth there's nothing wrong with them really..except a little weak spark..=)
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2005, 01:45:25 PM »
Let me see if I have this right.
The coils work fine with the voltage Honda intended.

Problem:
Time and the elements have deteriorated some components of the bike so that the coils no longer receive the 12v they were designed to operate.  Therefore weak spark.

The repair:
The prescribed cure that returns original designed voltage to the coils, is not to correct the ravages of time, etc. by cleaning, restoring, contacts in the circuitry.  But, rather add devices and more wiring to the bike that bypasses these known faulty and deteriorated components simply to restore the original coil voltage and improve the spark?  Do I have this right?

One wonders what will happen when these added components deteriorate with age?  (Another relay and wiring addition, bypass?)  <(not intended as a cheap shot, really)

I'd like to point out that aged electrical connection points are not selective on the bike.  It's not just the connections in the ignition circuit that deteriorated.  All the lighting and charging circuit connections age and corrode just as easily as the ones in the ignition circuits.  Therefore, your lights aren't as bright, your charging system isn't operating as efficiently, and the battery may not be achieving peak potential, as what Honda intended until these respective circuit connections are restored...or bypassed with extra wiring and relays. <(okay, that's a cheap shot!)  ;D

I've no doubt that you've seen immediate improvement in spark vigor with the modifications you've made.   I would like to see a before and after modification voltage measurement at the coil primaries.  This would also be an indication of how much power is being lost in those hundreds of connections on your bike, btw.

I do wish to thank your clearly well intended efforts.  And, I am genuinely pleased that you are so happy with the results of your efforts.  Perhaps it's just that I am too much of a die-hard restorer to implement your proposed modifications and would rather correct what is broken than add and bypass bits of the machine.  I suppose it's just a difference in maintenence philosophy, in the end.

Truely best regards,



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Offline hymodyne

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2005, 03:29:06 PM »
evening,

do you disconnect the original wiring to the coils before installing the relay system, or simply add the realy to what is there?

hym
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2005, 05:33:30 PM »
there is new wires from the battery to the coil, and no i am not going to pull my wireing loom appart to tke the wire out and put new wire back in,i was also getting a votage drop across the switch, which i cant get another of.

   the bike is a daily drive, in fact its my only mode of transport, i did this to help me sort a problem i was haveing that i neither had the time, nore the inclination to pull the electrics apart to try and replace...the way i have the hole set up wired, i didnt cut any of the original loom, so if it

'One wonders what will happen when these added components deteriorate with age?  (Another relay and wiring addition, bypass?)  <(not intended as a cheap shot, really)'

   then i can replace it by unplugging, and make up new wires... i could even put it back to standard,in about three seconds... i am feeling a bit set on ... if you cant get the feeling i am trying to put across... either do it or dont... i dont care... it worked for me, there was a picture to go by, gave it a shot... end of storey..
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you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2005, 05:40:35 PM »
oh and twotired, my coils are shot, so have replaced them with 3.2 ohm cols from a VF1000... they needed more power anyway...

 to CUB... yeah should be ok to do

to hymodyne... just disconnected to original power, then used what was comming from the kill switch to turn the relay on, then plugged the wires that would have connected to the kill switch at the coils, to the relay power, the relay earth is at the same point as the original earth for the coils.. hope this helps..
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you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/

eldar

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2005, 03:01:50 PM »
Would you need to have a working kill switch for this mod to prevent battery drain? Mine got smashed by hail.
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Offline cben750f0

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Re: using a relay to boost power to coils...(in practice)
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2005, 05:16:34 PM »
no, because power is still controlled ultimately by the ignition key,so if  you have by bassed the kill switch, it wont matter..peace
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you are never to old, to act like a kid... be safe
funny thing,chasing someone down hill on a bike 30 years older than theirs..
he said \\\\\\\'it was like watching a 250kg unguided weapon getting stuck up you bum\\\\\\\ http://www.bikepics.com/members/trixtrem/
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