Author Topic: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston  (Read 27210 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« on: February 04, 2009, 04:32:34 PM »
You can't always save the cylinders depending on how stuck they are. Heres the steps...

Phase One: Finding Daylight
The First thing you got to do is get the cylinders broke and physically separated from the case. I used a 1"X12" peice of flat iron, and put that under the edge of the jubs, and start banging with a big A$$ hammer. On the right side you have a good spot right where is says "736" on the jugs. On the left side you have the area to the right of the points. Alot of people use a 2X4, which will work, but it often will start to chip and slide off. You can start by tapping lightly and hoping it breaks free. At some point you have to make a decision to just pound the crap out of it, broken fins be damned.

Phase two: Pry time
This involves using two hammers as pry bars. If you have two full size pry bars all the better. I had the motor on a small bench, then position yourself behind it. One hammer in front, and one in back- with the pry teeth between the case and cylinders. Be gentle as you can, cuz you want to gouge up cases as little as possible, but it will happen. At this point, what have you got to loose right??? Now push the hammer in front forward, and the one in back toward you causing upward force on the cylinders. This "should" force the cylinders away from the case. This should get you 2 or 3 inches of space between the jugs and case. Now on to phase 3.

Phase three: Hammer Time
Now in phase three you have two options. Both are traumatic to the pistons and rods. At this point you should have a since of which piston(s) are stuck. This is the piston you will want to bang on. Get yourself a 1X1 piece of wood about 12" long, and place it on the stuck piston, now whack it with a hammer. The idea here is as you force this piston down, it will slowly move the cylinders up and off the pistons. If this doesn't work your last resort is to place you 2X4 or rod under the pistons, and start whacking with your bigg A$$ hammer. In the process you will break fins, and various other pieces of aluminum will go flying. Don't sweat it, at this poin your relegated to getting another set of jugs any way. As your doing this be sure to the cylinders evenly creep up all for cylinders. If you bring the cylinders up unevenly if can put undo stress on the pistons either damaging the pistons or the wrist pins.

Few more things to keep in mind.
>You should clean both the area between the cases and jugs, and any crap thats in the cylinders above the pistion out before you start. All this crap will fall right down in the case when the jugs come off.

>Again be mindful when/if you use the pry bar technique. You can gouge the case when can leak oil if that mill ever makes it back on the road. The are between the case/jugs is now high pressure and usually not prone to leak, so you have some leeway, but again the less gouges the better.

>I haven't put any hard miles on any motors that I'm banged on the pistons this way, but you have to think the beating and banging could cause a catastrophic failure of a piston/rod if the motor makes it back on the road. Be mindful of this and don't build any 100HP beasts with a motor thats gone through such trauma.
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline Pinhead

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,818
  • 1979 CB652-ST
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 05:09:29 PM »
Why not fill the offending cylinder with something like Liquid Wrench or WD-40 and let it do the work for you?
Doug

Click --> Cheap Regulator/Rectifier for any of Honda's 3-phase charging systems (all SOHC4's).

GM HEI Ignition Conversion

Quote from: TwoTired
By the way, I'm going for the tinfoil pants...so they can't read my private thoughts.
:D

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 05:32:23 PM »
...this is when that doesn't work.  If a rings are good and rusted to the cylinder wall, penetrating fluid won't free it up...
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline swan

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 249
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 06:17:44 PM »
Marvel mystery oil, patience and heat works for me. I never, ever pound on pistons. Why ruin your pistons, risk your rods and bearings?


1975 CB400 F cafes, 1974 CB750 K4 Cafe, 1966/1976 Triumph/ Norton Triton Cafe and 1962 DBD34 BSA Gold Star Clubman.

CB750 build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=52551.0

Offline tlbranth

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,659
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2009, 06:12:32 PM »
I had this very problem several years ago. I finally made wedges from some ironwood I had and hammered them into the gasket between the cylinder block and the crankcase. They did finally separate. One piston would absolutely not part with its rings. I use it for a pencil holder.
Don't own a Vanagon
Don't work at Boeing
Life is good

1970 CB750 K0
1975 GL1000
1999 GL1500
2002 VT750-CDA ACE - Momma's bike
Terry

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 07:58:32 AM »
Man, I hope I never get a motor that has been...
"LUMBEED"... :o   :o   :o

 There is a lot of other ways to do this.. without hurting your cylinder or cases..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 12:17:02 PM »
Man, I hope I never get...
"LUMBEED"... :o   :o   :o

 There is a lot of other ways to do this.. without hurting your cylinder or cases..

...thats what my wife tells me!!!   ;D

...I got to get ya guys...I've tryed all the chemicals out there..and if the piston rings are good and rusted to the walls bunt trauma is the only way those cylinders are budging.  Swans suggestion of heat is the only thing I really haven't tryed...which I def will the next motor I rebuid.  Got two more that are locked up...
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,058
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 07:47:47 PM »
For starters, getting something that spreads the load over the piston, is a big help, and very easy to make of wood.

Heat can make a huge diff, expanding & contracting, making things lose their grip.

Where the pistons are makes big diff, and once it start moving it can get easier.

I got a stock bore Z1 barrel I got to try to save, but all pistons are very near bottom.. wurst scenario..
but the jugs are worth way more if they can go to 1st over..HTF..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

scottgarland

  • Guest
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2009, 05:21:59 PM »
Is this a joke? If you can't do it with out heat and penitrating oil take it to a machinist and have a professional do it. Bashing on old motorcycles is barbarick. Don't waste parts that could be used by someone who has the time and patience and love of this hobby to build something that dosn't look like it was done with vice grips and a cresnt wrench. Decaffinate and do it wright.

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 04:43:58 PM »
...you question my love of these old mills?  >:(  I won't even dignify that with a response.  This forum is for sharing knowledge.  I did just that.  I'm humble enough to recognize when there is a better way to do things which is part of the reason I posted the info in the first place.   :-X
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline phactory

  • Motorcycle Rescue
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 229
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 05:00:28 PM »
I agree!  ;)

I usually fill the offending cylinder(s) with some penetrating oil. I like Sili Kroil the best. Let it sit for a good week at least. Heat the cylinder with a MAPP gas torch. I then put the bike in gear and use the inertia of the bike to break it free. Hasn't failed me yet!

Phil

Offline sangyo soichiro

  • Tuck
  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,167
  • ☢ the atomic playboy ☠
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 10:22:19 AM »
Equally (if not more) important is what not to do...

...and here's a big one!  Don't use muriatic acid.  (Unless you're going to replace the pistons.)

Muriatic acid works well for cleaning rust off steel, but will ruin metals like aluminum (it actually eats away at them... craziest thing I ever saw).  I learned this the hard way (though luckily not on a stuck engine).   :-\
1974 CB 750
1972 CB 750 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,57974.0.html
1971 CL 350 Scrambler
1966 Black Bomber
Too many others to name…
My cross country trip: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,138625.0.html

hondatroy

  • Guest
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2009, 05:28:37 PM »
heres a trick. take the piston, cover it with ice, heat the cylynders with torch. eventuly this works, and you dont  have to beat the hell out of the motor. just tap tap tap. also I saw an old man melt parifin wax and let it run down the cyl. while using a heat gun, worked. troy in the ozarks.

Offline boatsdickson

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 673
  • 1978 836 K8
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2009, 12:26:35 PM »
Another option..... gravity

My last few motors ive seperated, ive suspended the motor and let its own weight do most of the work. No prying, no marred gasket surfaces, and no broken fins.

For lack of good typing skills and fewer pictures, here it goes....

When lifting the juggs, start with a steel cold rolled 1/4 inch bar. Slide it between the air passages of the cylinders running from front to back of the motor. Using a ratcheting strap, hook the steel bar on each end and lift the motor barely off the engine stand or ground. What ever your using. Penetrating oil is always recommended around the rings, whatever the motor condition. With a rubber mallet and wooden dowel drive the pistons downward and the cylinders will eventually separate.  Work this method until light comes through between the juggs and case. Then I double up the jersey straps and forego the steel bar.


This picture shows the straps in place and what I eventually did to the pistons. Granted, the pictured motor had the plugs out and went through 2 floods in miami ok. Needless to say I wasnt concerned about the internals.

Once the straps are on, suspend the motor again and have at it. My good motor is tapped apart gently, but this waterlogged motor had to be air chiseled. The pistons were damaged but I needed the cases, not the pistons. Besides, they werent Wiseco.  ;) And if you concentrate the power of the chisel on the piston not on the cylinder walls, no harm done. As progress is made you can see the motor drop back down to the table. Ratchet it up again and start over. No prying. Less cursing.

Here is what the pistons looked like b4 I started.  :o


« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 12:28:13 PM by boatsdickson »
"No. We're all our own prisons, we are each all our own wardens and we do our own time. I can't judge anyone else. What other people do is not really my affair unless they approach me with it. Prison's in your mind. Can't you see I'm free"?  Testimonial of Charles Manson

Offline GoatBaSS

  • Could someone find an
  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 760
  • To weird to live, to rare to die.
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2009, 01:08:31 PM »
...this is when that doesn't work.  If a rings are good and rusted to the cylinder wall, penetrating fluid won't free it up...
That the D@^% Truth!!!
Gentility gives way to brute frustration. ;)
Leethal # 3046?
1972 CB750K/900CC Red Headed Dunstall, 1975CB750FSS Gone BNF: 1974CB500T, 1976CB750K X 2

Offline Magpie

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,298
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2009, 03:53:38 PM »
The final method I emloyed on one motor was split the cases, take the con rods off the crank and the cylinders came off the case with the pistons. I then pressed the pistons out on a 12 ton press, being sure to note which came from which hole. i should have done that with another instead of the real brute force way when all else failed. Both engines needed overbore and new pistons etc.
Cliff.

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2009, 09:13:54 AM »
...WOW!  Gravity...now thats innovation...would not have thought of that in a million years...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2011, 07:31:50 PM by Lumbee »
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 03:41:00 PM »
...gave gravity a try with a little better luck.  The cylinders didn't jump off or anything, but a little moderate tapping here and there got them off.  I couldn't even get the cylinders to budge once the head was off, so I ran 550 cord through the cylinders.  I had better luck putting a chock under the rear part of the motor to balance the weight on the center line of the rods.  Thanx for the tip Boats...

...BTW, this is the 2 ton HF shop crane...

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35915

very handy for moving engines around by yourself...
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

  • This MuthaF'er is getting to be a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,912
  • Bought her new 4/75
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 04:42:57 PM »
Why not someone do the brake piston method on a larger scale?! Grease gun. Perhaps the industial gun like you see in the auto shops hanging from the ceiling hooked up to a tub of grease and powered by an air compressor.
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline swan

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 249
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2011, 10:06:30 AM »
I had severely frozen piston and used a new technique and it worked great!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=84354.0
1975 CB400 F cafes, 1974 CB750 K4 Cafe, 1966/1976 Triumph/ Norton Triton Cafe and 1962 DBD34 BSA Gold Star Clubman.

CB750 build http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=52551.0

Offline goaarongo

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 146
  • zen and the art of angle grinding
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 12:32:00 PM »
Here's my two cents.  Personally, I think this is a very legit technique:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=70136.0

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2011, 09:40:54 AM »
Here's my two cents.  Personally, I think this is a very legit technique:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=70136.0

Brilliant!!!
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

sodium.filled

  • Guest
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 09:04:14 PM »
Looks like an offering to the BSA Gold Star Gods in that pic Swan?

Offline aussie cb750 k1

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2011, 02:01:07 AM »
I'm sorry but your all going about it with a view to smashing fins & damaging an engine.The only way to separate the cylinders from the head is by getting (2) short painters pallet knives,sharpening each side of the 1'' flat surface & gently tapping on the carb side of the cylinder/head combination straight into the gasket joint.
The pallet knives need only be 6" long to achieve the desired effect.I separated mine in about 30 seconds without smashed fins & with little effort.Note-you can't drive the knives into the exhaust side,as the two head/cylinder locating dowels are positioned right on the edge of the cylinder.
Done correctly,this is the best way to do the job!
Forget about heating & cooling & all the other crazy ideas-this is the only way to do the job properly.

Offline dragracer

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,115
  • CB750F Dragbike
Re: How to remove cylinders with a stuck piston
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2011, 12:46:12 PM »
The final method I emloyed on one motor was split the cases, take the con rods off the crank and the cylinders came off the case with the pistons. I then pressed the pistons out on a 12 ton press, being sure to note which came from which hole. i should have done that with another instead of the real brute force way when all else failed. Both engines needed overbore and new pistons etc.
Cliff.


X2. Works great and saves both the pistons and the block from torture.

In the absence of a press, i might have to defer to Lumbees method but only after all other methods fail.