Topic: Various oddities

[78whiteorbs]

Getting to know my  '75 CB550 a little better and I have observed a few quirks which I am sure some of the seasoned veteran owners/riders here can  identify easily.

1)  Have to adjust the idle screw in for it to idle well with choke off when starting a cold engine. After it warms up and I ride it a bit, I have to back off the screw to get a lower idle or it is idling high when not in gear(stop lights or neutral).

2) After the engine warms up and I have been riding and adjust the idle  back down with the thumb screw to a nice 1000rpms then it seems to not want to go into neutral. Keeps clicking past it. When I first fire it up though it goes into neutral quite easily.

3) Some times at after coming to a stop the motor will rev a little high until I let out on the clutch a little just about to the friction point then I can pull the clutch back in and it idles just fine where iti suppose to .

that's pretty much all I can think off. It runs great after the engine is warm and starts immediately . Pulls great through all gears as well. Very fast through 4th ,very.  I was reading a old review for this bike when it came out and it said that it was not a begginer bike because of the sudden onset of acceleration when you open the throttle. I also read a common modification is to get a sprocket with added teeth so it pulls  fast from a start, at the cost of fuel economy though  it stated . I am wondering what off the chain wear in said case. How can I tell when it is time to get a new chain /sprocket?

[TwoTired]

1)  Have to adjust the idle screw in for it to idle well with choke off when starting a cold engine. After it warms up and I ride it a bit, I have to back off the screw to get a lower idle or it is idling high when not in gear(stop lights or neutral).

The idle speed is adjusted with the engine at operating temperature.  There is no fast idle cam linked to the choke.  So, you have to hold the throttle until it is warm.  The 550 does not need a warm up.  Suit up, apply choke, start and go with just enough choke to keep it going.  Your hand on the the throttle can keep the revs up during the warm up ride.  And, you can reach down and incrementally to remove some choke a bit at a time.  After a few blocks of driving, no more choke is needed and the engine should be warm enough to idle at the setting made when it warm for adjustment.
It's one of the bike's quirks you adapt to.

2) After the engine warms up and I have been riding and adjust the idle  back down with the thumb screw to a nice 1000rpms then it seems to not want to go into neutral. Keeps clicking past it. When I first fire it up though it goes into neutral quite easily.

This is a sign of a dragging clutch.  If it does this with new oil, and the clutch adjusted properly, then you have warped clutch plates, nicks in the clutch basket, or the bike doesn't like the type and/or viscosity of the oil you've selected.
Alternately, you will find it easier to snick into neutral with any motion of the rear wheel.  Either anticipate going to neutral while the bike has some motion, rock the bike fore and aft while applying a little foot pressure on the shifter, or work on the clutch 'til it operates as you wish.

3) Some times at after coming to a stop the motor will rev a little high until I let out on the clutch a little just about to the friction point then I can pull the clutch back in and it idles just fine where iti suppose to .

Either the carbs need sychronizing, or the carb couplers are leaking air.

How can I tell when it is time to get a new chain /sprocket?

When the pins in the chain have worn or there are tight spots felt when the chain is in certain positions on the sprockets.
If you can pull the links away from the sprocket an 1/8 of an inch, a new chain is indicated.
Worn sprocket teeth start to look more like hooks than a symetrical tower.

Avoid oring chains for that bike.  The sprocket is too close to the engine case to allow for its extra width.

Cheers,

[SteveD CB500F]

At last a technical query that I can answer and TT got there first!

Changing the gear ratio by swapping sprockets is not really recommended for a street bike. Honda used the ones they fit as they give the best all round performance. True, increasing the rear sprocket or reducing the gearbox sprocket will give more revs per mph - ie better acceleration - at the cost of more revs to maintain speed on the highway.

[78whiteorbs]

Thanks for the replies.

"It's one of the bike's quirks you adapt to."

Had a feeling that might be the case .

"Avoid oring chains for that bike. "

Forgive my noob ignorance but what is a  oring chain?

My back wheel has had those adjustment bolts almost maxed out that push the rear wheel back to adjust the chain slack. It has within the recommended slack in the chain movement what does this mean ? I was thinking that this may indicate it's time for a sprocket/chain replacement just like on my trek mountain bike!
Are there any special tools required to change a chain? 

On a side note what is the easiest way you guys 's opinion to attch emblems?  I have a new paint job and the emblems where removed. I put the side cover ones back on with some double sided mounting tape and "just in case" hot glued around the prongs on the back side of the side covers.  The tank emblems , I am wondering how these were detached/attached. I have a parts bike with a extra set of side covers and  an extra tank I want to have done in another color so I can change the tank and covers and have a different looking bike.

[Hush]

"0" ring chains are more expensive but give better wear, they have small rubber shock absorbers between each link, they are a #$%* to fit.............more importantly some older SOHC bikes cannot run them as they do not give enough free space when running over the front sprocket and thereby chew your casing out.

[78whiteorbs]

Thanks Hush , I will certainly stay away from them then.

[Duke McDukiedook]

If you want to change your chain I would recommend getting a drive chain breaker and press. You will want to press on the master link (I wouldn't recommend using the quick-link, those are only recommended for emergencies until you get a master link back on). I dunno, my o-ring master link was a snap to put on when I used my chain press. If you are maxed out on your adjuster you can remove a link or two but you want to make sure you use a compatible master link for your chain. Odds are you should replace your sprockets and chain if you don't know when the chain was replaced last.

[TwoTired]

Examine your chain for a master link.  It looks different from the rest and has a clip to keep it together.

All my chains since 1975 have had a master link.  They are replaced along with the new chain.  I'm not sure why people sneer at them.  I don't think a stock 550 can break them.

O ring chains reportedly require less maintenance than a standard, which I believe is their allure.  The orings seal in grease at the pivot points and keep out dirt.  You still have to keep them from rusting. To accommodate the orings, the chain becomes wider.

Count the links on your chain.  Maybe someone put on a longer one.  Count the teeth on your sprockets.  Maybe they have been changed, too.  If you have stock sprockets and stock length chain, running out of adjustment is significant.

Cheers,

[78whiteorbs]

I will count each ASAP . What does significant mean? How bad is that?  I noticed tonight while on a nice long ride that at higher speeds the bike seems squirrely .If I shaked on the handle bars back and forth the whole bike felt like it was speed wobbling. At one point I pulled over just to check and make sure everything in the rear was tight. I think it could be just that is how the bike handles. When riding two up it is MUCH more stable. I was doing like 70-80 with two up and I noticed no wobble at all but I doubt I was looking for it either.  My cb750 was always very smooth even at higher speeds .It only weighted like 50 lbs more ....hmmmmmm.

I wish I knew someone who could ride it and tell me what they think. or another bike like it to ride and compare. All I could think about was like some high speed wobble crashes on  Busa's on utube. SCARY.  Also remeber reading about a tank slapper here  where this guy nearly met his maker because he neglected that there was a wobble when he took his hands off the bars. Was an orange CB750 with a rather unique exaust . My bar doesn't wobble any when I take my hands off the bars but generally speaking at 60plus I try and keep  'em on there.

[pdxPope]

I wish I knew someone who could ride it and tell me what they think. or another bike like it to ride and compare

Where are you? The folks on this forum are all over the world. Chances are there is somebody pretty close by.

If I shaked on the handle bars back and forth the whole bike felt like it was speed wobbling

How are your steering head bearings, wheel bearings and swing arm bearings?
Are the front & rear axle nuts tight?

-JP

[TwoTired]

I will count each ASAP . What does significant mean? How bad is that? 

If you have stock components and run out of adjustment, it's probably worn out.

I noticed tonight while on a nice long ride that at higher speeds the bike seems squirrely .If I shaked on the handle bars back and forth the whole bike felt like it was speed wobbling. At one point I pulled over just to check and make sure everything in the rear was tight. I think it could be just that is how the bike handles.

My 550s are stable at all speeds, regardless of passenger weight.

Tire pressure?
Tire tread design?
Correct size tires?
spokes tight?
Head bearings worn?
Swing arm bushings worn?
Are the wing arm bushings well greased?
Do you change the pre-load on the rear shock springs when taking a passenger?
Are the wheel bearings good?

Cheers,

[Deltarider]

All my chains since 1975 have had a master link.  They are replaced along with the new chain.  I'm not sure why people sneer at them.  I don't think a stock 550 can break them.

I have the same experience with my 500. All my chains had masterlinks, even the O-ring chain I had once. It's the easiest way to service your chain.

[78whiteorbs]

I am in Mooresville,NC so dubbed Race City USA cause all the Nascar people here.

Axle nuts are tight. Tire pressure and tread are good and the correct size. head bearing seems to be ok ,there is no play or wiggle any in the forks. Gonna check all the spokes now and the swing arm bushings. The swing arm should have no side to side play  I am assuming.

wing arm bushings well greased (this would be were the only nipples are for the grease gun right?)

I don't adjust the shocks . The wheels spin freely and do not squeal or make any funny noises So I assume they are fine. I am thinking it may be an alignment problem with the back tire or something to do withthe fact that the adjuster bolts are maxed out. Gonna count the links in the chain and  teeth in the sprocket and report back . What are these stock numbers for this ?  Don't think I will be riding any faster than 45 if at all untill I get this fixed. Gonna go ahead and order a new chain and sprocket just to be on the safe side, it shouldn't be to challenging to replace these right?  I am mechanically inclined so I'll give it a shot . Might just replace the wheel bearing while I am at it as they are super cheap.
I only found front wheel bearing for sale though. This is probably a stupid question but why can I not find rear wheel bearings anywhere? thanks for the reply . You can't enjoy riding a motorcycle anymore if you wreck and die on one
When I first got the bike I noticed that it seemed really hard to push  around I noticed that the chain was hella slack so I tightened the adjuster bolts up and then It was as should been . I suspect maybe a PO might have installed an incorrect chain or possibly a rear wheel ? But I have no way to verify this. Also the rear axle bolt was finger lose !   when I first got it . Took care of that but man I felt stupid for not checking it and overlooking it when I first took it for a ride. Coulda been bad...

[TwoTired]

Tire pressure and tread are good and the correct size.

Wow.  Really?  Where did you get the 3.75 rear?

head bearing seems to be ok ,there is no play or wiggle any in the forks. Gonna check all the spokes now and the swing arm bushings. The swing arm should have no side to side play  I am assuming.

HEad bearings are checked with the weight off the front end.
Yes, no side to side play for the SA.

wing arm bushings well greased (this would be were the only nipples are for the grease gun right?)

Yes.  Did it help your "wobble"?

I don't adjust the shocks .

Why not?  Extra weight lowers the rear, and changes the front end geometry a bit.  What setting are your rear shock at?

The wheels spin freely and do not squeal or make any funny noises So I assume they are fine. I am thinking it may be an alignment problem with the back tire or something to do withthe fact that the adjuster bolts are maxed out. Gonna count the links in the chain and  teeth in the sprocket and report back . What are these stock numbers for this ?

17 Front, 37 rear.  I don't recall the stock number of links.  I think it is 100.  I bought one that was too long and cut it shorter.  Since chains don't get shorter with age, I put the axle far forward with the adjusters.  Then threaded on the chain and removed the links that would make it longer than needed.

Might just replace the wheel bearing while I am at it as they are super cheap.

Don't under estimate this job.  The bearing retainers are staked in place, plus you need a special tool the get them free.

I only found front wheel bearing for sale though. This is probably a stupid question but why can I not find rear wheel bearings anywhere? thanks for the reply .

The Honda dealer doesn't carry these anymore?

When I first got the bike I noticed that it seemed really hard to push  around I noticed that the chain was hella slack so I tightened the adjuster bolts up and then It was as should been . I suspect maybe a PO might have installed an incorrect chain or possibly a rear wheel ?

What size rear tire do you have?

Cheers,

[Toxic]

Might just replace the wheel bearing while I am at it as they are super cheap.

Don't under estimate this job.  The bearing retainers are staked in place, plus you need a special tool the get them free.

Without the special tool should I even try?

  I was going to replace the bearings in both wheels just as preventitive measure.
My dealer called today to tell me the bearings are in, so maybe it's worth the hour labor charge to have them do it.

[TwoTired]

Might just replace the wheel bearing while I am at it as they are super cheap.

Don't under estimate this job.  The bearing retainers are staked in place, plus you need a special tool the get them free.

Without the special tool should I even try?

I don't think so.  If you have the skills to make a tool, then go ahead. 
When one of mine went bad, I wrestle it for awhile with a makeshift tool.  I called the Honda dealer and they said they would remove the retainer for free if I brought in just the wheel and bought the bearing from them (I was a regular customer).  So, I did.  I watched the guy grunt and groan over the thing WITH the special Honda tool for about a half hour.  He was about to give up, when the retainer finally gave way.
I'd have paid to have them remove that, if not just for the entertainment value (watching someone ELSE struggle with it).

Cheers,

[Toxic]

Great advice.
It's a no-brainer then.  I will bring the front and rear wheel to the dealer tomorrow.

Thanks again

p.s. considering my shoulder was broken in two places and is still healing it's probably best to let the dealer wrestle with removing the old tire anyway.

[pdxPope]

When I first got the bike I noticed that it seemed really hard to push  around I noticed that the chain was hella slack so I tightened the adjuster bolts up and then It was as should been

I am confused. Why would a loose chain make it hard to push?

Did you tighten both chain adjusters evenly? Could it be possible that the rear wheel is at an angle?
Probably moot now that you are going to remove it to have the bearings replaced. Make sure that you install it back on the bike that you get it in there straight.

-JP

[78whiteorbs]

Well the rear tire is a Dunlop K91 Mark 2  MT80-18.  I found the "something" that was very wrong though.
Not exactly sure what it is called but I got the bike on the center stand and grabbed hold of the back tire with both hands one on each side and there was play.....not cool.  I heard a metal tapping noise and on the right side adjuster there is a bolt that goes  from top down well there is play inside there. the stop peice where the adjuster screw meets,on the other side in there there is play. I have a parts bike so I went and had a look at it and well look at the pix. I think something was installed backwards by the PO. The nut is on the right side of the parts bike (which might I add has adjustment markings well within range as you can see) on my bike the one I am riding  the nut is on the left which I think is  incorrect. Also you can see the adjuster piece is bent kinda.   I can use the parts bike pieces and replace all the adjuster parts and turn the axle bolt around . This plus a new chain and sprocket . The chain I counted 50 links on the outside of the chain, It has to be hella long though or how would the chain stretch that far. Notice the adjustment registries on the non rusted bike.

With the wheel bearings , yeah I will pay from what you said ,no questions about it .

Everything else is solid.

Wow.  Really?  Where did you get the 3.75 rear?

do I detect a note of sarcasm?  

[78whiteorbs]

Well, I thought it was strange too. but  yeah I adjusted them evenly. Something isn;t right here  though.. They are way maxed out.
If I bring them in any farther then the chain is really slack. About the being hard to push , I do would not think a slack chain would make it hard to push I just noticed after I tightened it up that it was esier.  Maybe the rear wheel was really crooked or soemthing before I  adjusted it ? I dunno. I think the PO did something hella wrong when putting the rear wheel back on . The rusty pix  are of a parts bike. The adjusters are within limits there. I am gonna get a new sprocket and chain and use the parts bike as a guide. That is the best I can come up  with .
Till then I am not gonna ride it.

[pdxPope]

Good idea!

Looks & sounds like the PO had the back wheel off and didn't put it back together correctly.
Download the shop manual (if you haven't already) and check against it when you remove the wheel. There may be some additional bits missing...

BTW, your chain & sprockets both look worn to me.

-JP

[78whiteorbs]

Thanks Jp , where can I download this manual?

[78whiteorbs]

found it. It shows the nut on the left just as my bike , not the rusty parts bike. Still a mystery  why the rear axle is so far back though. strange.

[roy747]

Sounds like your chain is worn out. As it wears, it stretches and you have to keep moving the rear wheel back to take up the slack. Replace that chain with a new one.

[78whiteorbs]

Roy you were absolutely right. I removed the rear wheel today on my parts bike and the purple runner(that is what I call her) and removed the chain from both and compared and the purple runners chain was way longer like 2 inches or so.

I ordered new sprockets froont and back and an o-ring chain off ebay for 98 bux. Then I will have a new drive train that should last a while . The rear sprocket was pretty chewed up but the front one looked alright but I just assume replace them at that price for new.

Next task is to install the  new speedometer hub. I will have to remove the front wheel so prolly get to that this weekend.
Cant wait to feel how she handles after the new parts , I am excited!

[78whiteorbs]

BTW there was no "master link on the purple runner. It was an endless chain. The parts bike had a master link though.
I talked to my local Honda parts man and asked about the o-ring chain versus the non on my bike. He said it would be fine. I am leary as I don't want anything chewed up but this man  was a pro and not trying to BS  me into getting an o-ring chain.

I have read of many 550 owners with o-ring chains in my searching and reading. Does anyone have anything to say pro or con?

[TwoTired]

I told you on the first reply in this thread to avoid an o ring chain.  It's too wide and rashes up the casework, if using the stock sprockets.  You'll have to mill and shim the front sprocket  for offset to get it to clear.

Good luck!

[78whiteorbs]

You did indeed , I let that slip . Well , could you tell me were one might find a chain with a msaster link that is new?

Thanks for  helping , need to clean some wax outta my ears I guess...

[78whiteorbs]

I think I got it reversed in my head( reoccuring theme in my life) and shopping on ebay found  front  and rear sprocket with  o-ring chain at a great price. There are a ton of these listings and  none of the right ones(non o-ring).
Found some NOS chains guess I could cut one and buy a master link seperate. Any other places that  anyone knows of that  have this > forgive my newbiness   

[TwoTired]

I got my chains from Honda before they closed up shop.  Now I get chains from my local motorcycle shop, South Bay Cycles, in Milpitas, Ca. 408-263-2475.
I just called him, about $40.  In stock.

Cheers,

[78whiteorbs]

Could I use any 530 chain and just remove the amount of links I need to and use a masterlink? Is 530 refer to the width?


    What does rk stand for?  Seems like





i can find one of these chains in Charlotte,NC somewhere.

[pdxPope]

Could I use any 530 chain and just remove the amount of links I need to and use a masterlink?

Absolutely!
That pretty much the standard approach. Just remember to measure twice and cut once! 

-JP

[TwoTired]

Could I use any 530 chain and just remove the amount of links I need to and use a masterlink? Is 530 refer to the width?


    What does rk stand for?

The first number is the chain pitch or amount of eights in the pin to pin center distance of the links.  A 530 is a 5/8 inch pitch chain.

The second two numbers show the width of the roller section of the chain in eighth's of an inch with an assumed decimal point between the numbers... So 630 chain is 3/8" wide and 525 chain is 5/16" wide (2.5 eighths)...

520 5/8 inch pitch, 1/4 inch wide...
525 5/8 inch pitch, 5/16 inch wide...
530 5/8 inch pitch, 3/8 inch wide...

The zero at the end actually designates a standard chain.  A light duty chain would end in a one.
If the side plates are heavy duty the number will end in an "H".

Rk is a brand designator.    DID is also.  And, Tsubaki yet another.  There are many brands.

I've frequently purchased a longer chain and removed the un-needed links.  Grind off the end of the desired pin and punch the pin out the other side.  I vise is handy for this operation.  Or, you could buy a chain breaker tool.  I don't have one, though.

Cheers,

[78whiteorbs]

Very thorough explaination twotired. That is exactly what I wanted to know.

gracias amigo

[bradweingartner]

The axle nut can be on either side without issue.

However if the wheel moved then that axle nut is not tight. It needs to be. Somebody may have tightned it and then backed off too much to get the cotter pin through. That's my guess. A little riding later and it worked the clearances down enough to make it loose. That will make things pretty squirly.

[754]

3 things,
You are clearly not grasping the fact that the chain must be adjusted at the TIGHTEST point, that will give a lot of slack in other positions on a badly worn chain. Yours is VERY BADLY WORN.

Yes any 530 chain will fit but it has to be motorcycle chain to perform the task, industrial, no matter how great they tell you it is will wear out quickly.

Your axle nut can go on either side, BUT if you are missing an internal spacer or washer or have a longer axle, it may appear to tighten but be bottoming on the threads..this may be happening on yours.

nobody seems to have mentioned fork oil, yoo light an oil can give a scary ride, much like some of the other things that can be wrong.

[78whiteorbs]

I have accessed that it was a very badly worn/stretched chain. I compared to one that was on another bike and it was way longer  about 2 inches in fact. The play in the rear wheel was due to the fact that the adjusters were "maxed out " and one was not in synch with the other. 

I believe that when I put the new chain and sprockets on when they come in that the wheel will be proper and not have any play whatsoever.    All the spacers , washer, pins where there and tight . It was a chain issue.

It is nice to have a spare parts bike to take apart when need be and not have to worry about damaging anything. it is a great learning tool.

The motor is stuck in my parts bike . Was thinking about some of that mystery oil I have heard so much about. Then I can take alook see how the inside of my motor looks. How difficult is it to rebuild  one of these 55o's I was thinking about getting it bored up to the next size, what is it 600 something. Then make a project bike outta it. way down the road of course but how many frogskins you think I'd be looking at?