Author Topic: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.  (Read 1915 times)

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Offline SClay115

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I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« on: February 10, 2009, 07:09:40 AM »
Warning, long post.

Second warning, Law Enforcement advice.

Background on myself, 24, never been arrested, few speeding tickets here and there, nothing serious, everything is kept up, car insurance, registration, I am a legal citizen. Currently located in Upstate, NY, been here for about two months helping the family out with some things, relocated from the Orlando, FL area. My cage is a 1994 BMW 325is, stock engine/driveline(this is important), with some M3 springs and Bilstein shocks. Basically, nothing outwardly saying I am a motorsport enthusiast, no offensive decals/bumper stickers, Boston Green in color, basically, a relatively unassuming vehicle. Good then. Time for the story.

Yesterday I had replaced the alternator on my vehicle, and returned back to the parts store to drop off the core to refund the charge. Upon leaving, I thought it would be a good idea to give the car a wash(Upstate NY winter, ew), and set about trying to find a self-serve car wash. Not knowing the area well, I knew there were none north, so I set about going south on one of the local roads. Less than a quarter mile upon leaving the shopping center, I take note there is a state trooper behind me, moves as he is going to pass, so he is now in the left lane(I am in the right), but sits level with my bumper, of course, running my tag, no big deal, as I mentioned, I'm straight, nothing looming over my head legal wise. Typically, most of the time, they will do this, and then just hit their 'go fast' pedal and speed off, as they have nothing to pull me over for. This officer then merges in behind me. And, as I'm sure a lot of you know, irregardless of whether his lights were on or not, I knew he was going to pull me over, just that feeling. Speed? Legal. I know all my lights work, I run through in my head any reason I could find, and I came up with nothing.

Now I understand, I'm driving somewhat slow, looking around from side to side, trying to find a place to wash my car, I must look really quite suspicious. Unfortunately, this is where it gets somewhat ugly. He drove behind me for an undetermined distance(will confirm this number today), but it was for some time, I'd say five miles or more. Still looking for a place to wash my vehicle, as I assumed he was simply waiting to find something to ticket me for, and as such, I would go about my business as a free law abiding citizen, and maybe he would just go about his business as well. After driving for that time, I resolved to get to the interstate and drive back north, towards home, and see if there was one up in that direction, at this point I was about two interstate exits down from where I had started, as the road I was on runs parallel to the interstate. Saw a sign telling me the interstate was west, turned, not more than a quarter mile later I was on the side of the road. Window down, hat and sunglasses off. Vehicle off, keys on the dashboard, license and registration in my hand. Again, running through anything I could have done that gave him just cause to pull me over. Again, nothing.

What follows is the dialogue of the stop, to the best of my knowledge, please keep in mind there is some foul language, and also keep in mind I am not substituting words for what the officer truly said, this is how it happened.

Officer: "Where are you going?"
Myself: "I am looking for one of those self-serve car wash places, where you put the quarters in and there is the pressure washer"
"You realize you passed several car washes back there?"
"Yes both those are full-service, not self."
"So where are you going now?"
"I thought I would get back on the interstate and head north, and see what is on the other side of route 9. And I just replaced the alternator and I thought it would be good to take a bit longer drive."
"You were just on 9-"
"Sorry I meant on the other side of the interstate, on the west side of the interstate"
"I don't understand.."
(useless banter about me explaining where I was going in my nervousness)
O: "Do you have a license and registration?"
M: "Yes of course sir."
(gave him both pieces of information)
"Where were you coming from?"
"....From Advance Auto Parts, I was returning an alternator core" (apparently I answered this question in a way that sounded snappy, and at this point I was, no explanation as to why he pulled me over as of yet.)
"What the f*** was that? I'm just asking you simple f***ing questions, these are normal everyday questions. Why are you so nervous?"
"Well this is what happens to me when I get pulled over. I get a bit nervous"
(and I was, I had no idea what was going on, and I was being questioned in the sense I had already done something illegal)
(at this point his partner had his hand against my passenger window, searching through any visible area in the car.)
"Would you like me to open the window for him?"
(this, I can understand as me being a bit pissy, and I was, I was done with this, I was not doing anything illegal, and I was being treated as such)
"No, are you on any sort of medication?"
"No sir."
"So no sort of drugs of any kind? No medication at all?"
"No, absolutely not."
"Have you ever been arrested?"
"No"
"Do you have any felonies at all?"
"No"
"Where are you from?"
"Florida"
"How long have you been up here?"
(at this point he is looking at my license)
"For about two months."
"Do you intend on staying?"
"Probably not, just helping the family out for a little while."
(peering around the car)
"Where do they put the inspection stickers?"
"They do not do inspections in Florida, visual or emissions. I know that this state has visual and emissions, my father was an inspector in western New York for quite some time."
"OK, sit tight"
(takes my paperwork and goes back to this car, ten or so minutes pass, he returns with his partner, carrying two sheets of paper, he hands me back my paperwork)

"I'm giving you a ticket for your muffler."
(my jaw hit the floor)
"Sir, it's a factory exhaust system."
"There must be a hole in it somewhere."
"No sir, there is not"
"You mean to tell me that this vehicle has the original exhaust system from 1994 on it? I highly doubt that."
"Well, sir, it is a Florida car, I know that with the salt and everything up here things rust much quicker."
"If you want to contest it, the court date is as follows"
(at this point, I gave up. This man was giving me a ticket for something, no matter what I did, or said. There was not getting out of it.)
O: "Or alternatively you can have it inspected at any police station and send this in with the ticket"
M: "Fine."
(little murky about the parting words, but I know that very shortly after that I was in my car, driving west, towards the closest police station I knew about)

I drove directly to the local PD, talked to an officer there. Explained that I had just gotten a ticket(this was not more than twenty minutes after the incident), and they said I could have it inspected to clear it. In Florida, you usually have to make an appointment with the PD to do such things, so I thought I would do it now and set up the appointment for the soonest as I could. The officer at the station looks at me quizzically, asks me what type of car it is, I tell him, asks me where it is, it's outside I tell him.

"Lets go take a look at it."
(we walk out to the car, he looks at it, looks at the exhaust in all it's BMW made goodness, not chrome, not even shiny.)
"Start it up."
(I do so)
"Hm, give it some gas"
"How much?"
"I dunno, about 3000rpm"
( I do so, I note it's louder than I thought it would be, but the officer doesn't seem surprised, he motions to turn the car off, I do so)
"Were you gettin` on it or anything?"
"No I was actually driving quite slow, oh maybe you can help me, I was looking for one of those self serve car washes"
"Yea we don't have these down here, you have to go to exit 12"
(he explains the directions)
"OK, come back inside, we can make this go away"
(signs the appropriate paperwork, tells me just to mail it in, and well, that is that. I shake his hand, thank him for his time, and out the door I go, feeling mighty friggin victorious)

So here we are, day after. And it's no big deal, I can make this ticket disappear. My problem is, when I send this ticket in, with the other paperwork, I have to check 'guilty' on the face of the ticket. Of this, I am not. I have a big problem with this. I did nothing wrong, he ticketed me for no reason but to hassle me, and grilled me as if I fit the description of someone who was suspected of a higher crime. The officer at the station was much friendlier, and really couldn't understand why I had been given a ticket. And obviously, it being not thirty minutes before, I could not have changed anything on it so make it more quiet. Not guilty.

I intend on writing some sort of letter, I feel the way I was treated at the stop was really just unacceptable. I was being pushed and pushed, I felt as if I was in an open air interrogation room, where nothing I said was true, and every answer I gave was wrong. This sincerely bothers me, down to my core. I live in this country, I pay my taxes, yes, I am young, but that should make no difference, if I was outwardly doing something illegal, sure, question me, but do not question me just for the sake of showing your partner you are the big d*** on the block. I know this may pale in comparison to other issues people have had with the police. And I know it may seem like one of those "F*** the police!" kind of things, but I assure you it's not. I have been pulled over far too many times in Florida, and whether or not they were going to give me a ticket, they were professional, did their job, and even thought I just did something illegal, they treated me with respect, as I did to them. I've had three experiences with the NYS police, on three separate occasions, and they have acted this way, and to make matters worse, this was the only one who issued me a citation. All the others...well, did it for what?

In closing, I do not need people saying, "You know, being an officer is a thankless job and they do great things for the country." Yes, you're damn right they do, and I'm elated when I hear of the Police catching real criminals. But there are the few(or the majority? I'm not sure), that give the entire organization a bad name. Yes, if I was doing 55 in  45, pull me over. If I routed all six of my manifold pipes out of my hood, please, pull me over. Why? Because at least then I would have known I did something wrong.

So I need some opinions, I know this is an extremely long post, but I need some advice, you people on here seem to have far more wisdom than I do. Do I make this go away and just fold to the system? Or should I honestly try and fight it, just for the rational of being right?

Steve

Offline Soos

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 07:24:31 AM »
you people on here seem to have far more wisdom than I do


AHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAAAAAA....
didn't say you didn't have a good sense of humor.


Anyways, IF you got the time, get the 2nd officers (in writing) evaluation of you exhaust system being OK, and take it to court.
IF he shows, the Ticked off look will be priceless, try to bring a camera.



Don't ever take a "guilty" plea if you don't deserve it.
ANY record is bad, pleading guilty to something you are not guilty of is worse than doing it IMO.



Your choice though.

l8r
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Offline 754

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 07:29:24 AM »
You may want to talk to the officer again that checked off your ticket 9ask what he thinks)..

make sure time is recorded when he inspected (leaving no time for a repair)
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Offline CaféElite

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 07:31:26 AM »
So did you find a self service car wash?
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fuzzybutt

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 07:31:45 AM »
i'd fight it, youre NOT guilty and shouldnt maerk that you are. several years ago a forest acres gestapo (police) officer pulled me over while i was in my mustang (85 lx, ford performance 514ci crate motor) it didnt have an exhaust that was louder than legal ( i had it checked by a local sled officer) all lights worked. he was pissed as hell when he couldnt find something wrong so i ended up with a ticket for improperly installed tag (there was a screw missing, though the tag wasnt crooked, you could see the screw hole through the tag) i went to court, judge sheeley took a look at the citation, asked me to tell him my story and i explained what happened, he asked me was the tag obscured, i told him no, he turned to the forest acres officer and porceeded to go up one side adn down the other of this officer, apologized to me for wasting my time and told me, have a merry christmas mr emmons.

Offline SClay115

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 07:36:02 AM »
So did you find a self service car wash?

Haha, I did in fact. After the officer at the PD signed off, went straight there.

I have all the times recorded, the ticket has he issuing time, and the inspection has a time. 2:30pm and 3:00pm respectively. In my eyes, no time for a repair. Should I be concerned that I am not a resident of this state before fighting this? I certainly do not want them to attempt to pin anything else on me.

And thanks for the replies everyone, keep them coming...

Steve

Offline my78k

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 08:54:13 AM »
I agree that Cops do a great things for our country (although in my case that would be Canada!) but they are certainly not immune to being dinks. It is like any other profession....we here at my company have our fair share of knobs working for us so why wouldn't the police force??

Anyways, I would fight it...

My buddy and I this summer were riding and he got tagged for following too closely. The cop was coming from the other direction so there is no way he could have accurately guaged how closely we were behind the guy infront of us. Anyways, my buddy fights the ticket and the judge asked him to enter his plea. He pleads not guilty. Well then she turns to the cop to give his statement of the events and all he says is I have no evidence to enter!!! WTF?!?!? Well the judge tears into him about the colossal waste of time and she sends my buddy home with a clean record.

Dennis

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 10:04:13 AM »
Anyways, IF you got the time, get the 2nd officers (in writing) evaluation of you exhaust system being OK, and take it to court.
IF he shows, the Ticked off look will be priceless, try to bring a camera.

Don't ever take a "guilty" plea if you don't deserve it.
ANY record is bad, pleading guilty to something you are not guilty of is worse than doing it IMO.
Your choice though.

I agree, I have had my fair share of experiences with the law, and being close to your age I fight tooth and nail regardless of what state I am from.

I'm sure they saw the Florida tag and decided to get that much closer to their quota.

Cops around here make no bones about it. They WILL ticket you for 1-5 over.
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Offline Caaveman82

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 10:42:54 AM »
If you are not guilty then you are not guilty. Even if it is a fix it ticket. Get your ducks in a row and go into court.

I lived on a street they were tearing down forest and putting a road through it, it was closed off on both ends, but I lived in the middle of it. It said "Road closed to through traffic". I was not in that catagory, so I went down that road.

Right as I turned my right turn signal on to turn into my parking lot cop lit me up. Bunch of bull crap on his part he gives me a ticket for going down a closed street. I turn into my parking lot and run upstairs and take a picture of his car, he was still sitting there, so then I walk over to the other side of his car and he is staring at me at this point so I waved to him and he rolled his window down and stuck his head out the window. I took a picture of him yelling at me with my car parked in the background and my front door. Took those pictures into court, proved via my drivers license that I lived there, the address was also visable in the picture of him with his head out the window yelling at me. The judge TORE the ticket up. She said "Thank you Mr. Haskins, have a good day." Haha I was 17 years old. Cop was pissed...

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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 11:09:34 AM »
If you have the time, fight it. With the crappy economy police are enforcing more to drum up revenue. They are depending on you not wanting to fight it and just pay up because it is a hassle. Out of state tags with a beemer and young person to a cop = follow mode to see if you flinch.
Even if they are totally disrespecting you be nothing but courteous in return.
Remember, they have the gun and billy club and are licenced to use them.  :P
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Offline heffay

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2009, 11:47:47 AM »
take it a step further if you like...

sue the officer for harassment and intimidation including the use of offensive and foul language... it should all be recorded on his windshield camera.

my dad is an ex cop.  honestly, i don't get along too well w/ them based on my own experience and bias w/ them being power tripping eggheads that, often times, only have a high school education.  before you all jump on me... a lot of that mindset comes from him.   :P  dad was one of the good ones though, he would've never even thought of uttering such language while on the job.  although, i have my doubts he would restrain from similar intimidation tactics.  i've never met a cop that didn't make me feel belittled.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 12:50:18 PM by heffay »
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Offline gregimotis

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2009, 12:32:55 PM »
i've never met a cop that didn't make me feel belittled.


+1


I've dealt with a few cops who acted professionally, but most of my interactions have been with  condescending asses barely pretending to be polite.


The exception was when I was working as a bouncer:  When I was nominally on their side I got to watch how some of them acted and talked about citizens - That was even more disturbing.


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Offline sandcastcb750

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2009, 12:46:23 PM »
My advice is, spend as little time with the police as possible. Become anonomous. If you beat the ticket, forget about them.

Offline tramp

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2009, 12:48:49 PM »
had a cop tell me he thought i was running from him{had a jeep wrangler against a crown vic}
i had actually slowed down from 55 to 45 and was looking for a place to pull over{no shoulder on road}
then he said i was not wearing my seatbelt, i was
gotta warning for not wearing a seatbelt
my word against his
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Offline azuredesign

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2009, 01:10:13 PM »
Sounds like you're being jerked around, perhaps because of your age. Sounds like hassle type police B.S.
I used to get it in Delaware and Maryland when I was around your age. Pain in the keister, but don't let it bother you too much. Next thing you know you'll be mY age, and nobody will pay any attention to you. Not sure which is worse!

billcnorth

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2009, 02:03:03 PM »
Here is the real deal. Your state cop was a dickhead first class. Unfortunately state cops seem to come from the same school, and it is bad. Do you remember back, way back, to a roadside stop in Middleport? We went from the airport out to the exchange point in Medina. The car was an ‘89 Honda and the right front headlight took a puke just as we lit it up at the airport?

When we went through the stop point we did get a ticket, but that was of little concern as they toss them off if you get it fixed immediately. What was far more interesting was the return trip through the same check point. On that return a fairly beefy village idiot type could have cared less that I ALREADY had a ticket for the blown light. In fact, he wanted nothing more than to write it up all over again. Amazingly a fairly level headed badge holder (yeah, there are a few), recognized the car. After all it had only been less than 15 minutes.

He told Officer Butthead that it was okay and let us pass. To say the least, it pissed Butthead that the very foundation of the American Constitution was in jeopardy because he could not write another ticket or hassle us further. Long story short, a new headlamp, a copy of the receipt, copies of everything, and a nasty note went to the local township. No word was every heard back… Call…

Offline DammitDan

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2009, 02:22:17 PM »
I dunno, maybe it's because I'm from the South and people are generally more courteous down here...  But being cursed at by a police officer for ANY reason (especially seeing as you didn't "start" the cursing, he did) is both intimidating and extremely unprofessional.

There's a big difference between someone saying, "Why are you looking at me?" and "What the #$%* are YOU looking at??"  The officer became aggressive with you when you were simply being truthful.  That should be a big no-no.  I would call and file a complaint on the officer, and not just because you're pissed off at the situation.  The truth is, this guy has obviously let the job go to his head, and that's NOT the kind of person us average citizens need in a position of authority.  He may very well have more complaints on his record...  All that stuff adds up to anything from a disciplinary "talking to" up to a formal dismissal from service (if severe enough).  If anything I would call the state trooper office and (politely) ask how to file a formal complaint.  They'll get you pointed in the right direction.  Make sure to write down a series of notes regarding the situation in case they direct you to talk to someone.  The more level-headed, intelligent and prepared you sound, the more seriously they will take you.

As for the "guilty" plea, I would also call the courthouse regarding the issue.  It is fairly clear that you were NOT guilty and if they make you go to court, I would be sure to plead not guilty and state your case with supporting evidence.  The case *should* get thrown out and you won't have to pay any court costs.  You might also get the opportunity to make a court-recorded statement about how you were treated by the officer.

Just remember, have notes ready to help keep your facts straight!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 02:23:48 PM by DammitDan »
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fuzzybutt

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2009, 02:37:20 PM »
I dunno, maybe it's because I'm from the South and people are generally more courteous down here...  But being cursed at by a police officer for ANY reason (especially seeing as you didn't "start" the cursing, he did) is both intimidating and extremely unprofessional.

There's a big difference between someone saying, "Why are you looking at me?" and "What the #$%* are YOU looking at??"  The officer became aggressive with you when you were simply being truthful.  That should be a big no-no.  I would call and file a complaint on the officer, and not just because you're pissed off at the situation.  The truth is, this guy has obviously let the job go to his head, and that's NOT the kind of person us average citizens need in a position of authority.  He may very well have more complaints on his record...  All that stuff adds up to anything from a disciplinary "talking to" up to a formal dismissal from service (if severe enough).  If anything I would call the state trooper office and (politely) ask how to file a formal complaint.  They'll get you pointed in the right direction.  Make sure to write down a series of notes regarding the situation in case they direct you to talk to someone.  The more level-headed, intelligent and prepared you sound, the more seriously they will take you.

As for the "guilty" plea, I would also call the courthouse regarding the issue.  It is fairly clear that you were NOT guilty and if they make you go to court, I would be sure to plead not guilty and state your case with supporting evidence.  The case *should* get thrown out and you won't have to pay any court costs.  You might also get the opportunity to make a court-recorded statement about how you were treated by the officer.

Just remember, have notes ready to help keep your facts straight!


and no matter how abusive the cop and others might be, always be level headed, calm and non profane.

Offline Uncle Ernie

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2009, 03:30:21 PM »
If nothing goes on your record, and it's not costing anything but pride, and you didn't get taken to a hospital or put in a cell- chew your bite of #$%* sammich, swallow, and smile.

That's the way it works, pal.  I know.
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Offline Tim in Ohio

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2009, 04:07:19 PM »
Sorry to hear about your encounter with "the man."  I say fight vigorously, maybe even file a sexual harrassment complaint against the officer involved.  Yes, I said sexual harrassment.  He obviously put you thru some bull$hit charges just to hassle you... why not return the favor?  They will be forced to conduct an internal investigation on him, make him answer some silly-assed questions, etc.  Say that he kept undressing you with his eyes and before his partner approached the car within earshot... the cop asked you if you were up for a little "man-love."   That should create a nice procedural hassle for him as well as give his fellow officers something to torment him about for years to come. :D
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Offline heffay

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2009, 04:46:05 PM »


excellent and interesting first post.   ;)  not that i feel like dissin' on some cops... just cuz.
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Offline heffay

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2009, 04:50:03 PM »
If nothing goes on your record, and it's not costing anything but pride, and you didn't get taken to a hospital or put in a cell- chew your bite of #$%* sammich, swallow, and smile.

That's the way it works, pal.  I know.

ernie.. i love ya, guy... but this may be the one and only time we disagree.   :)  i value your opinion, but this goes beyond personal respect.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 09:06:38 PM by heffay »
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2009, 08:33:19 PM »
OK having been a Cop for a time. I imagine you were nailed by a local cop who may actually be part time. Not a State Trooper.  I assume you were charged with defective equipment not a moving violation. You have an out of State plate, so you he thinks you would probably not fight it. I drive way out of the way to not go through Waldo Fla since they pray on visitors. You can plead not guilty and ask for a deposition from the Officer. He must comply. You will go to a BMW dealer and have them state you have a factory exhaust in good working order. You send that in and you explain the Officer made an honest mistake. What I imagine is you will get an offer to reduce the fine, maybe a dismissal. They want your money, not to take up their time. If it is a local Court with a part time Justice, getting nasty will only buy you more trouble and expense. Oh yeah the Cop, is a trailer trash Sh1thead hillbilly. But, you cannot say that in Court.
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Offline tsflstb

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2009, 10:05:10 PM »
You've got Florida plates on a BMW - there's got to be drugs and automatic weapons in there somewhere. 

Sorry, I was watching that Cocaine Cowboys documetary earlier. 

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: I'm fairly certain someone on here can give me some advice.
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2009, 09:29:05 AM »
You've got Florida plates on a BMW - there's got to be drugs and automatic weapons in there somewhere. 

Sorry, I was watching that Cocaine Cowboys documetary earlier. 


You may laugh about that but I am sure that is what a lot of cops up in New Yawk think. FL to NY is a BIG drug running route. How do you all think those idiot bankers/investors make all those stupid decision they make? Lots of coke and whores.  ;)


 
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