Author Topic: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it  (Read 16266 times)

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Offline cxtecs

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I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« on: February 12, 2009, 12:29:34 PM »
Here's a sad newbie tale:

For my bike project, i wanted to clean my engine up by stripping the flaking paint from the case, covers and finned areas.  I had recently acquired a new blasting cabinet, and I figured that would probably be the fastest and easiest way to strip; I search for info on this process but couldn't turn up a lot of info.  I had taken most of the covers (clutch, shifter, points, sprocket, cam chain tensioner) off the sides for polishing.  After polishing those parts and holding them up to the paint flaked engine case, I decided to proceed with the blasting.  With the side covers OFF (I just got them polished) and being careful not the aim the blaster directly into the exposed areas, I blasted away with glass bead.  Since the motor was too big to fit in my new cabinet, I just did it in my driveway.  That glass bead gets everywhere.  After the dust settled, I found some glass bead powder and a few granuals of glass bead resting on the oily surfaces of my shifting mechnisms, clutch basket, and charging rotor.  I sprayed the areas down with mineral spirits, then air hosed them clean.  I can no longer SEE any traces of the glass bead in the visible parts of those areas. 

I then proceeded to remove the head and cylinder block from the motor because they would fit in my blasting cabinet once they were off the motor.  I was swapping the orignal head with one I picked up on ebay a few months ago which was recently rebuilt with new valve sealed and lapped valves. Since I didn't want to mess up the valve lapping job or tear up the new vavle seals, I left the springs/valve on the head and proceeded to blast again.  I did tape up the oil restricter holes.  The other holes appeared to go straight through the head, so I left those open.  Again, I sprayed mineral spirits on the springs, then air hosed them.  No visible traces of the glass bead were to be seen.

Looking back at the engine case, I began to remove the pistons from the rods so I could remove the carbon deposits.  I considered my trusty blast cabinet again, but didn't want to mess up the shiny skirt areas, so I just used a scotch brite wheel on my drill press to remove the carbon.  While polishing the piston tops shiny, I managed to break two rings on two different pistons.  Now I need new rings and will have to hone the cylinders.  Anyway, while putting the pistons back in their orignal locations, I happened to run my finger along the sides of the camchain valley.  Sure enough, I found more granuals of glass bead sticking there.

I suspect there is probably more granuals floating around inside my engine.  I don't think there is a pile of it in there, but there probably is at least some.   Considering this, I decided the remove the springs from my head so I could clean off the valve stems.  I laid out a pan of paint thinner next to me so I could drop the springs/retainers/keepers into.  Valve stem clead, then springs put back on.  When I was done, I found a thin layer of glass bead in the bottom of my pan, but I could have sworn the springs were clean of glass bead before I dropped them in.

I've concluded that glass bead does get EVERYWHERE.  My orignal search for cleaning an engine by bead blasting didn't turn up much as I was searching for "bead blasting engine".  Upon discovery of glass bead in places I didn't expect, I decided to try looking up "bead blasting engine PROBLEMS".  Sure enough, I found plenty of info indicating that this should not be done unless the motor is already completely apart with the cases split.  I was hoping to find somewhere that this is not a big problem, and that the glass bead will eventually get trapped in the oil filter.  But it's looking like know have the split the case, disassemble and wash every part with soap and hot water.  The task seems daunting as this is the deepest I've ever gotten into any type of engine.

I do have a 77 motor on my parts bike that I never heard run (cut up wiring harness on parts bike).  By the looks of the gunk collected near the exhaust ports, I think it might need a head gasket at least.  Then, that motor also has the flaking paint.

I'm not sure which would be an easier job -split the case and clean the orignal motor or try to get running and swap the parts bike motor.  I'm hoping someone can provide some sort of trick that will make this not be such a nightmare.

Offline Steve F

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2009, 12:59:40 PM »
 :o   :o  I think it would be wise to tear the whole engine down and remove everything from inside and outside that you can.  DO NOT ROTATE THE CRANKSHAFT, OR ANYTHING THAT ROTATES FOR THAT MATTER until you have everything taken apart and thoroughly cleaned.  The smallest bit of grit will totally screw things up, and that includes glass beads.

Offline WFO

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2009, 01:38:26 PM »
The glass beads become embedded in the aluminum ( not good) you should have used walnut media.
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Offline wrenchmuch

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2009, 02:09:53 PM »
The good news is you didn't put it back together and run it ;D I'm almost done putting my 750 engine back together .There is less inside the crank case then you might think. Once you get it all apart you can use a pressure washer on the cases .Pay special attention to all the oil passages .Get oil galley brushes and run them in all the passages you can reach .Pressure wash again.The machinist who did my bore job and head work glass beaded my cases and then hot tanked them. Maybe someone in your area can tank them for you . I still pressure washed them when I got them back .Try and get a parts fiche for your bike and print it out . It will show you exactly what goes where. Use the FAQ . What is not there people on the site were happy to help me with . Good folks here .Thanks  :)Replace all the rubber bits inside the engine (tensioner parts).If you use solvent like varsol to clean parts remember to oil the part once clean so it doesn't rust . CLEAN METICULOUSLY .I think it's been a lot of fun to pull  this apart and get it back together .Can't wait till spring. ;)Good luck
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Offline Steve_K

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2009, 04:01:08 PM »
Some have said that boiling in water will help remove the beads.  Oil and beads stick together and I would wash the parts several time to make sure I got them all.
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2009, 04:04:26 PM »
Once the top and sides are off, splitting the cases isn't nearly as bad as it seems.  Go for it.

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Offline mattcb350f

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2009, 04:28:07 PM »
Glass beads are nasty little objects to have inside your engine. When I blasted my case, my engine builder warned me to clean every little piece thoroughly and inspect them to make sure that no glass was left. Even the powdery residue is harmful. I was surprised to find that the stuff made it into places I didn't think it would

I must have washed the case halves alone about four or five times, and had a garden hose hooked up to the oil galleries running full tilt for at least ten minutes and still found some stuck in there.

The long and the short of it is, like everyone else has already said, the engine  has to be striped and every part has too be cleaned.

Another thing to watch out for is glass inside the bolt holes. If you thread a bolt into the hole with glass in it, you will (likely) ruin the threads....since glass is much harder than aluminium  ;)

Taker' apart, and carry on. The engine probably hasn't been harmed yet by it, so it's still good...it just needs a cleanin'

 Matt.
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2009, 05:20:26 PM »
Bath Tub time ;)

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2009, 06:41:05 PM »
Strip it ALL the way down and take all the aluminum parts to the car wash and hit them with a pressure washer. I'd guess you have an air compressor with your cabinet (aren't the cabinets one of the best toys going?). Go back home and use the solvent, brushes and air compressor to clean and blow out EVERY piece then put it back together. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2009, 07:19:07 PM »
yikes. They are EVERYWHERE. In EVERY passage, nook, cranny.....
Automatic transmission rebuild shops have king hell parts cleaners. Id start there. Then Id drag all the bits home & go after it with compressed air, carb cleaner, pipe cleaners, bore brushes....every oil passage needs to be cleared.
Well, thats how most of us learn.

Offline XN

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2009, 01:10:00 AM »
Yep the only way to clean it properly is take it all apart. Back in the day when I took my automotive machining class we watched a couple of guys scrap their builds cause they shot blasted their blocks and didn't get all the media out...
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Offline Toxic

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2009, 04:44:57 AM »
It's not that big of a job.
You will learn lots.
Take your time.
Use the right tools.
Read lots about the proper proceedure.
Ask lots of ?'s here.

You have no choice unless you want to use another engine.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2009, 05:16:43 AM »
Well you're probably shiiting yourself thinking about how are you gonna remember where everything goes after you've solvent washed everything then washed the solvent off with hot soapy water, then lightly lubed it all again before re-assembly, so do what I do.

1. Get your parts engine and strip it to the bare cases, and store all the internal gubbins in plastic tubs you can buy from your local hardware store. Take note of how all the top end components are to be reassembled, as you probably forgot to do this when you stripped your engine.

2. Rather than take lots of pics, write copious notes and try to make up songs like the "crankshaft is connected to the cam shaft", just transfer all of these components into the parts engines cases while you're doing the clean up.

Oh, and in future, just use aluminum friendly paint stripper, a wire brush and some acetone, and try to keep it away from gaskets. Cheers, Terry. ;D

« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 05:18:53 AM by Terry in Australia »
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline Steve F

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2009, 06:35:12 AM »
Nice looking engine, Terry!

Offline nippon

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2009, 08:12:38 AM »
@Terry, great looking engine!!!
I love to see painted engines without painted nuts and bolts.  ;)

nippon

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2009, 03:17:40 PM »
Well thanks guys, and the good news is that it still looks that good a year and a half down the track.

I stripped this engine down to the bare cases and rather than media blast them, I just used paint stripper and acetone (wonderful stuff!) a wire brush and wet and dry sandpaper, to remove any traces of the crappy OEM paint and 31 years (it's a highly modified K6 engine) of crud.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti bead/sand/walnut blasting, I was just in a hurry and my local blaster always wants a week to do anything, and as I had a free weekend I wanted to make some progress.

When I start on my 1060cc engine shortly, I'm gonna get the head, cylinder block and cases sandblasted to increase the surface area for cooling purposes, and to give it that tough period racer look. Cheers, Terry. ;D   
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline jason teamshralp

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2009, 12:14:09 AM »
I was told to use aluminum oxide, anyone know if this would cause the same issues?

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2009, 01:06:51 AM »
Geez mate, whoever told you that doesn't like you much! Aluminium oxide is the sharpest, nastiest abrasive you can blast at your engine, it's like firing shrapnel, you may as well just lob a grenade at it!

Best to stick to glass bead, or walnut shell or even plastic bead blasting, but whatever you do, only blast bare cases, or conversely, plug up every possible orifice and blast the engine intact, and pray that nothing got past your defences............  ;D

I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline jason teamshralp

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2009, 01:12:59 AM »
wow, dodged a bullet there... I used some bead last night, and will do some more tmw. Hope the car wash pressure washer gets the left overs out.

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2009, 01:24:26 AM »
I know the car wash thing is popular mate, but seriously, you'd be better off dumping your blasted parts into a tub of nice warm soapy water, and running bore brushes and pipe cleaners through every orifice, including any threaded items.

You really need to wash it a couple of times and hose everything out, high pressure just isn't as important as thoroughness. Remember, with blasting, you only get one chance, so do it right, or cry yourself to sleep...........  ;D
I was feeling sorry for myself because I couldn't afford new bike boots, until I met a man with no legs.

So I said, "Hey mate, you haven't got any bike boots you don't need, do you?"

"Crazy is a very misunderstood term, it's a fine line that some of us can lean over and still keep our balance" (thanks RB550Four)

Offline chrislib

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2009, 06:44:24 AM »
all it takes is ONE tiny glass bead to fubar your day, IMO I would be prepping for a complete teardown...unless you like Vegas.
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Offline Tim in Ohio

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2009, 07:50:34 AM »

...  2. Rather than take lots of pics, write copious notes and try to make up songs like the "crankshaft is connected to the cam shaft", just transfer all of these components into the parts engines cases while you're doing the clean up....

Cheers, Terry. ;D


No doubt about one thing Terry in Australia does know his shiite when it comes to bike building...  So do what he said...  but I would not discount the value of plenty digital pics during the teardown.  If you are a visual person... they WILL help.  Also, if you run into a jam, you can share the pics with the forum for troubleshooting.  Heck, if your wife/GF is hot... go ahead and snap some pics of her and post them in your thread too...  that will be sure to keep the knuckleheads on here coming back to your thread and bringing their knowledge with them.  ;)
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Offline mrosso

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2009, 05:09:46 PM »
How about tearing the engine apart and tossing the bead-blasted case halves in the dishwasher?

Offline A Grove

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2009, 06:18:23 PM »
^^ that is one helluva idea.. i feel as if that'd help, but from my experience with blasting (which is a decent amount given i have a blast cabinet).. that #$%* gets EVERYWHERE.  and i mean EVERYWHERE.  Once you think there is no possible way there is anymore glassbead in/on your parts... wash it at least once more.  Just my .02cents.

Offline Soos

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2009, 09:20:16 AM »
Geez mate, whoever told you that doesn't like you much! Aluminium oxide is the sharpest, nastiest abrasive you can blast at your engine, it's like firing shrapnel, you may as well just lob a grenade at it!

Best to stick to glass bead, or walnut shell or even plastic bead blasting, but whatever you do, only blast bare cases, or conversely, plug up every possible orifice and blast the engine intact, and pray that nothing got past your defences............  ;D




HAHAHA....
I did this with a head I was working on, I thought I had everything either taped(gorilla tape, the black duct tape, awesome stuff) or plugged off.....beads STILL got everywhere!


Good thing it was completely dis-assembled.....



l8r
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Offline kghost

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2009, 09:53:34 AM »
I routinely glass bead engine parts.

Course they are disassembled.

I've found a quality set of bore brushes helps get the glass bead out.

Screw holes are the worst.

It all eventually comes out...takes a bit of cleaning tho.
Stranger in a strange land

Offline lone*X

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2009, 08:03:54 PM »
I have used walnut shell media in the past and it does a great job without leaving the sharp grit.  But you still had to clean the workpiece well after the blasting.  Recently saw a demonstration where the media used on aluminum castings in a foundry was soda, plain baking soda.  Worked like a charm and hot water cleanup actually dissolves the remaining media.  Of course I have no idea where you get baking soda in bulk.  Would be interesting if anyone here has any personnel experience with soda as a blasting media.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 08:06:24 PM by lone*X »
Lone*X  ( Don )

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2009, 08:11:39 PM »
i understand that blasting with dry ice is a great way to go. safe as safe can be. i watched a video one day of them dry ice blasting a very very old book, it took the grunge and mildew off of the cover leaving a brand new looking book, it diesnt attack the base material at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ice_blasting

Offline chrislib

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2009, 11:00:08 AM »
i understand that blasting with dry ice is a great way to go. safe as safe can be. i watched a video one day of them dry ice blasting a very very old book, it took the grunge and mildew off of the cover leaving a brand new looking book, it diesnt attack the base material at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ice_blasting
I saw the dry ice blasting on an episode of "Holmes on Homes" (unfortunately that show has been replaced by the "green" channel), they blasted mold and mildew from the attic of a marijuana grow house, it looked pretty neat.
Chris...closet Idlefiddler
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Offline Tim.

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2009, 11:06:36 AM »
+1 for baking soda.  I think you can get big sacks of it at Costco.
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Offline MJL

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2009, 02:09:37 PM »
i understand that blasting with dry ice is a great way to go. safe as safe can be. i watched a video one day of them dry ice blasting a very very old book, it took the grunge and mildew off of the cover leaving a brand new looking book, it diesnt attack the base material at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_ice_blasting
I work in a tire factory and they have a truck that goes around dry ice blasting molds while they are still in the presses.



I would get the spare motor running and swap it in so you could still ride, then spend the summer cleaning cleaning cleaning the good motor.
No matter how fast or how far I rode, I couldn't leave her memory behind.

Offline lone*X

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Re: I think I hosed my engine by bead blasting it
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2009, 02:40:15 PM »
Found this link.  Cool stuff!  non-flammable, non-toxic, and anti-rust treatment all in one.

http://www.surfacetekinc.com/soda_blasting.htm
Lone*X  ( Don )

75 CB550K1  
VTX1800C for two up cruisin.
Several others have come and gone but whose keeping track.
52 years on two wheels and counting.....
"The best safety feature of any motorcycle is the one God put between your ears.  It's also the least utilized"