Author Topic: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??  (Read 3447 times)

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ThomasTedder

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78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« on: February 16, 2009, 09:08:37 AM »
I bought new tires and was all ready to put them on, but when I took the tire off I found a tube. Is this necessary? I would like to go without one. The valve stem hole is a little weird. The diameter is quite small and is squared on two sides. I think this is a standard tube sized hole. Is there a tubeless stem that will fit it, or should I even bother?

KingCustomCycles.com

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 09:11:28 AM »
The tube was probably used because they could not get the rim to seal for some reason.  A scrape, pinhole, or simple ignorance come to mind.  I would go tubeless if you can, but don't frett if you have to reinsert the tube for a good seal.  Comstar wheels may be used tubeless.

Offline scondon

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 09:29:10 AM »
The tube was probably used because they could not get the rim to seal for some reason.  A scrape, pinhole, or simple ignorance come to mind.  I would go tubeless if you can, but don't frett if you have to reinsert the tube for a good seal.  Comstar wheels may be used tubeless.

   I've often wondered about this. I know the DOHC comstar rims are marked "tubeless" but have yet to hear anything definitive about the '78 comstars. I've been running tubes on mine because it does not appear that the rim would seal properly running tubeless. Are you saying that you've been able to run tubeless on '78 comstars?

   The thought of the tire peeling off at high speed has me worried.
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Offline heffay

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 09:33:58 AM »
many valve stems, if you look at them, are round but squared on two sides... so yes, very common sized "hole".

i wouldn't be too worried about running a tube or not.  you'll probably never be able to tell a difference... unless you pinch the tube on install.   ;) :D ;D
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Offline fishhead

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 09:38:58 AM »
There are differences in the rim from tube type to tubeless. Sure you can fit a tube type Comstar wheel with out a tube, but it would be safer to put a tube in it. Usually the tube type rim will have the smaller valve stem hole to fit the tube's smaller valve stem.

 Heres a link with a link to show the differences in the rims.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=34498.msg487467#msg487467
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Offline scondon

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 09:46:32 AM »
Thanks for the link, fishead, that certainly makes up my mind about things ;)

Are there any benefits, other than higher speed rating, that would make one want to try tubeless on these Comstars?
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Offline UnCrash

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 09:55:50 AM »
Quote
The tube was probably used because they could not get the rim to seal for some reason.  A scrape, pinhole, or simple ignorance come to mind.  I would go tubeless if you can, but don't frett if you have to reinsert the tube for a good seal.  Comstar wheels may be used tubeless.

I tried to go tubeless on my 78F but the tire wouldn't seal so the shop put a tube on.  No big deal, as I'm not going over 120 mph on this bike anyway.
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ThomasTedder

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 10:01:30 AM »
There are differences in the rim from tube type to tubeless. Sure you can fit a tube type Comstar wheel with out a tube, but it would be safer to put a tube in it. Usually the tube type rim will have the smaller valve stem hole to fit the tube's smaller valve stem.

 Heres a link with a link to show the differences in the rims.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=34498.msg487467#msg487467

Thanks. I guess I'll be buying new tubes too. Since my tires are already off, I'll be going to the stealership instead of the internet.

Offline MrZxp

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 10:07:18 AM »
My comstar rims are clearly marked/stamped - TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE.

See this thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17190.0

Cheers, Phil
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 10:11:22 AM by MrZxp »
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eldar

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 11:39:26 AM »
The comstars are a stiffer rim, they do not flex like spokes do.

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 01:10:33 PM »
My comstar rims are clearly marked/stamped - TUBELESS TIRE APPLICABLE.

See this thread: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=17190.0

Cheers, Phil

   Comstars went a few years past '78. Yours looks to be the '79 DOHC Comstar(not black like later ones, yet spokes are different from '78). May explain why it's tubeless?

    I had the impression from past threads that some '78 Comstars were marked "tubeless", but I've never seen one. Not for the Supersports anyway. Anyone know for sure?
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Offline Soos

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2009, 06:36:50 AM »
650 comstars....
the '79 rims(reverse stamped) comstars are not marked as to whether for tube or tubeless application.

All the '80, '81 and '82 cb650 rims I have seen are all stamped as being useable with tubeless tires.



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upperlake04

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2009, 06:53:15 AM »
  The 1978 comstars are are designed for tubes. The owners manual has instructions for changing and patching tubes. The word 'tubeless' does not appear in the text.

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2009, 12:11:36 PM »
I have a '78F and my Comstars are tubeless.  When I changed the rear tire I found a tube but the new tire went on without a hitch.  I'm not sure why it was there but it didn't need to be.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2009, 03:05:45 PM »
I have both a 78 and 77 Cb750 F.
The Comstars on both are of the same design, and neither have tubeless stamped on them.

The owners manual of the 77 states the use of inner tubes.  And speaks specifically about using the correct size inner tube for the tire, and replacing the inner tubes rather than patch them.

Tubeless rims have a different rim bead design than tubeless rims do, to accommodate the tubeless tire design.  Regardless of whether it "fits" the two parts aren't made to work with each other.
I don't know why anyone would risk their lives by putting the wrong tire/tube on their rims.

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2009, 03:30:44 PM »
Yeah, the only time you should patch a tube is a river tube to float on. I don't even patch my bicycle tubes.
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Offline mick750F

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2009, 04:43:53 PM »
I have both a 78 and 77 Cb750 F.
The Comstars on both are of the same design, and neither have tubeless stamped on them.

The owners manual of the 77 states the use of inner tubes.  And speaks specifically about using the correct size inner tube for the tire, and replacing the inner tubes rather than patch them.

Tubeless rims have a different rim bead design than tubeless rims do, to accommodate the tubeless tire design.  Regardless of whether it "fits" the two parts aren't made to work with each other.
I don't know why anyone would risk their lives by putting the wrong tire/tube on their rims.

Cheers,
   

   Thank you Lloyd. In the US market and probably the Great White North as well the 77/78 Comstars are a tube type rim. Can you fit up a tubeless tire without a tube? Apparently because some seem to have done so. I know I wouldn't try it which is why I'm planning on trying to fit up later dohc Comstars to my bike. I think the front will be a direct fit...I'm not sure about the rear yet, might need some work.

   Outside of North America different wheels might have been installed on these bikes from the factory...I certainly don't know about that but if they were it would account for people saying that they have "tubeless" stamped on their rims. Either that or a PO swapped out the wheels... ::) ::) ;D ;D

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2009, 05:09:44 PM »
Just like you can fit a tubeless style tire onto a spoked wheel, you can also put them on Comstars, as well.  Still should use an inner tube, unless the rim states it is designed to use the tubeless type, or the rim manufacturer says it is correct fitment.

I believe the issue is seating area of tire to rim.  The seating area width is sized, and wheel diameter tolerance is maintained, to provide a positive seal between rim and tire bead, in order to give reliable air retention, and bead stability, including when the tire pressures are very low.  (slow leak, puncture, etc.)

Non-tubeless rims don't have the bead seal requirement, so those size and tolerance requirements are hit or miss and the air seal function is the sole responsibility of the inner tube.

I really can't speak for bikes outside of the US, which may state different requirements in their owner's manuals. But, it does seem odd that Honda would provide wheel differences depending on export type, unless there were government requirement issues or other unknown cost/supply factors.

I'm not arguing that the tubeless system isn't the better way to go.  It's just that the benefits of tubeless aren't there by providing half the requirements for the tubeless system. The two halves are tire AND rim designs.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2009, 07:24:17 PM »
Well I bought my tubes and went home to put my tires on, and realized that changing tires is something I'm going to learn later. I took the front rim to a bike shop here in town, and about 45 minutes later, the guy from the back came out cussing saying that my rim wasn't designed to be used with a tube, and that it was a pain in the a$$, but he went ahead and did it anyway. The owner was standing right there, and I made sure he knew this guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about. I didn't know this myself until I started this thread, but I don't walk around pretending to know everything either. That guy's ego is going to get someone hurt. Needless to say, I took the other tire somewhere else.

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2009, 07:32:38 PM »
Well I bought my tubes and went home to put my tires on, and realized that changing tires is something I'm going to learn later. I took the front rim to a bike shop here in town, and about 45 minutes later, the guy from the back came out cussing saying that my rim wasn't designed to be used with a tube, and that it was a pain in the a$$, but he went ahead and did it anyway. The owner was standing right there, and I made sure he knew this guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about. I didn't know this myself until I started this thread, but I don't walk around pretending to know everything either. That guy's ego is going to get someone hurt. Needless to say, I took the other tire somewhere else.
Had the same problem with my 77.  They don't realize those cam wheels aren't meant for tubeless tires
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Offline mick750F

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Re: 78 750F, took off tire...found a tube??
« Reply #20 on: February 18, 2009, 07:53:09 PM »
Well I bought my tubes and went home to put my tires on, and realized that changing tires is something I'm going to learn later. I took the front rim to a bike shop here in town, and about 45 minutes later, the guy from the back came out cussing saying that my rim wasn't designed to be used with a tube, and that it was a pain in the a$$, but he went ahead and did it anyway. The owner was standing right there, and I made sure he knew this guy didn't know what the hell he was talking about. I didn't know this myself until I started this thread, but I don't walk around pretending to know everything either. That guy's ego is going to get someone hurt. Needless to say, I took the other tire somewhere else.

   You were smart to take your business elsewhere after that. Installing a tube is hardly the hardest part of mounting up a tire and anyone that works in a shop shouldn't consider it to be a PITA.

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