Topic: Better brakes wanted: Dual front disc?

[TwoTired]

AS mentioned elsewhere, it doesn't absorb water, so the water will puddle in the system over time. No problem if you change the fluid regularlly. DOT 3,4, or 5.1 DOES absorb water, so what is worse? Both need to be changed regularly to purge the water.

This difference is how easy is it to get the water out?  All the DOTs besides 5 do absorb water.   Change the fluid, out goes the water.  Water collects at the bottom of the caliper with DOT 5.   But, there is no drain there.  It is at the top of the caliper.  So, to effectively get the water out, you have some dismantling to do, as it isn't as simple to flush it to get the water out.

I haven't converted anything to DOT5, and don't plan to.  As nothing really combines with DOT5; it is tenacious, clinging stuff.  A completely thorough flush is near impossible.  And, it seeps into the pores of the rubber bits, thereby needing replacement when converting back.

Just saying...

[MCRider]

AS mentioned elsewhere, it doesn't absorb water, so the water will puddle in the system over time. No problem if you change the fluid regularlly. DOT 3,4, or 5.1 DOES absorb water, so what is worse? Both need to be changed regularly to purge the water.

This difference is how easy is it to get the water out?  All the DOTs besides 5 do absorb water.   Change the fluid, out goes the water.  Water collects at the bottom of the caliper with DOT 5.   But, there is no drain there.  It is at the top of the caliper.  So, to effectively get the water out, you have some dismantling to do, as it isn't as simple to flush it to get the water out.

I haven't converted anything to DOT5, and don't plan to.  As nothing really combines with DOT5; it is tenacious, clinging stuff.  A completely thorough flush is near impossible.  And, it seeps into the pores of the rubber bits, thereby needing replacement when converting back.

Just saying...

Sure, understood. I was just clearing up the misconceptions, especially about the reputation I've heard from many places that its bad for rubber pieces when in fact it's used as preservative and can be used in any system except ABS.

But the water puddling issue is there. And the sludging issue if the system isn't thouroughly clean first.

As mentioned in an earlier post, I'm using DOT 4 now. At the time I thought I wanted the higher temp rating of the DOT5 and the paint protection.

We want what we want...till we don't.   

[Hush]

Ah I knew someone would have the correct percentages for braking.
However if you had to ride your bike and the option was either you could have only back or only front brakes (given that most of the braking is from the fronts) which would you chose?
I know I would chose the rear brakes, I've rebuilt many old trail bikes where the front brakes a worse than useless but the bikes are still very ridable if the back brakes operate fine.
Road bike are a bit different but I'd be interested to see how many forum members would chose only fronts and how many would chose only backs?
A recent complete front brake (twin disc) failure on my custom 650 meant I had to return home using only the backs which I was very comfortable with, ......but had the backs failed I would have been very cautious about riding with just fronts.

[MCRider]

Ah I knew someone would have the correct percentages for braking.
However if you had to ride your bike and the option was either you could have only back or only front brakes (given that most of the braking is from the fronts) which would you chose?
I know I would chose the rear brakes, I've rebuilt many old trail bikes where the front brakes a worse than useless but the bikes are still very ridable if the back brakes operate fine.
Road bike are a bit different but I'd be interested to see how many forum members would chose only fronts and how many would chose only backs?
A recent complete front brake (twin disc) failure on my custom 650 meant I had to return home using only the backs which I was very comfortable with, ......but had the backs failed I would have been very cautious about riding with just fronts.

that's one of those questions that when answered proves nothing. The motorcycle is meant to have functioning brakes on both wheels. They are there for a reason. The front is by far the strongest and most important in bringing the vehicle to a stop. The rear is there for stability, and for us old timers to use in those rare occasions when the front shouldn't be used. If you have to choose one or the other you should be looking for a garage post haste to get the other one fixed.

Most modern bikes have some sort of unified braking "integrated" and/or "linked" braking system. honda calls theirs CBS, Combined Braking System. Virtually all Honda street bikes do or will. If you pull the lever for the rear brake on my Burgman (Suzuki Heavy Scooter) you get 2/3 rear, 1/3 of the front brake. if you pull the Front brake only you get 2/3 front, 1/3 rear. There is no way around it, wet or dry, that's how they work. Goldwings, ST1300, VFRs all modern touring bikes are this way.

All (that I know of) heavy touring bikes with ABS also brake this way. Neither control is unique to a wheel. The factories and users in general have determined this is the safest most effective way to brake. If it was in the least bit dangerous our litigious society would have wrapped it up years ago.

They are a team. The front is the strongest.

[Hush]

Well said Mcrider, I guess being brought up in a time (and place) where front brakes on bicycles were a novelty right up tot he 70's we became a little bit rear brake heavy handed.
Most likely many 70's /80's motorbikes in New Zealand could still have relatively virgin front braking systems.
Another point could be that disc brakes were something new fangled when I got into motorcycling in the early 70's, my friends Yamaha RD350 being one of the first I ever encountered.
My own bike of the time was a Suzuki T350 REBEL, two stroke, 105 mph any day you wanted and twin leading shoe brakes that did squat when you pulled in the lever no matter how many hours you spent on them or new cables you fitted.
All this may have led me to my eronious thoughts on the usefullness of front brakes.
I better check my technique out next time I ride, old habits may be hard to break!

[Retro Rocket]

I know I would chose the rear brakes,

Hi Hush, do you know how dangerous it is to rely only on your back brake? My braking consists of mainly front brake and on a modern bike i can get my back wheel in the air with no locking at all and it will slow you down 10 times faster than just back brake. On my GSXR i only used the back break to stop rear wheel spin and straighten the bike up exiting a corner. You should use at least 80 percent front brake at all times, your back brake will make you lock up way before you get any useful braking done. I have been around motorcycle racers most of my life and most of them only use the back for the same reason that i do. My son witnessed a guy riding a Harley just in front of our house, a car towing a boat pulled out from our street about 70 - 100 metres in front of the guy who panic braked using only his back brake, he skidded for about 50 metres and hit the boat and the bottom of the leg on the outboard motor on the boat split him from his stomach to his throat, he bled out in less than 5 minutes. He was traveling at 60 KMH, if he had used his front brake he would still be here today and wouldn't have hit the boat.
I would happily ride a bike with no back brake but wouldn't go near one with no front brake....

Mick

[phillip56]

On the track I never use the back brake.  My CB350 and the CB550 have the stock brakes with braided lines and I can lock the front up no problem.  The only time I tried braking with the back I nearly ended up pitching myself in the grass. Scared the crap out me!!!  The only time I use the back brake now is coming down the hill in the driveway (my driveway is gravel and it's a pretty steep hill).

[MCRider]

Well said Mcrider, I guess being brought up in a time (and place) where front brakes on bicycles were a novelty right up tot he 70's we became a little bit rear brake heavy handed.
Most likely many 70's /80's motorbikes in New Zealand could still have relatively virgin front braking systems.
Another point could be that disc brakes were something new fangled when I got into motorcycling in the early 70's, my friends Yamaha RD350 being one of the first I ever encountered.
My own bike of the time was a Suzuki T350 REBEL, two stroke, 105 mph any day you wanted and twin leading shoe brakes that did squat when you pulled in the lever no matter how many hours you spent on them or new cables you fitted.
All this may have led me to my eronious thoughts on the usefullness of front brakes.
I better check my technique out next time I ride, old habits may be hard to break!

Well said as well!  Happy braking.
Ron

[Lars]

I walk with TwoTired! Old rubber lines get soft and do not direct the power to the pads very well. The brake lever will feel spungy - not firm. If sticking to originality is important, just buy new rubber lines. Clean the Master Cylinder and the caliper. Get a new piston seal and new pads. If the caliper piston has rust spots, get a new one - by time the spot will defect the piston seal and you will have a leak. Finally, clean the disc before your new pads absorbs any grease, old brake fluid or any other stuff that affects your brakes.

The brake liquid absorbs water, that is why you have to change it even though you don't use your bike much. Every second year is recommend - same as with cars.

Riding vintage bikes, means you don't have the same good brake as on a new bike. Best thing to do is to take good care of your brakes and apply a more defencive style of riding. Front brake is your main brake to be used 99%. Rear brake is only to carefully help when your focus has been low. Excessive use of rear brake will easily give you a closer look at the road surface - but we all know that...
Lars

[fishhead]

Most importanly, know your limits and dont be a doofus like these 2 guys were.

http://www.geocities.com/fischervintagecycle/SkiddingIdiots.html