Topic: It followed me home, honest! ('75 CB 550Four - SS)

[Pirate]

Hi all,

  I wasn't going to give away how my day went so directly in the title -- I was going to let the pictures speak for themselves!.  Anyway, I was browsing the local craigslist and found the ad for this complete project bike, realized what a find it was, and jumped on it.  Like the title says, its' a CB 500Four Super Sport.  The seat is practically brand new (the 'first' owner took off the stock seat, and used a stepped seat instead), the gas tank has no dents/scratches in the original paint, and the inside is totally rust free.  The story I got from the guy I bought it from was that it had been stored under a tarp (hence the rust) in a back alley since 1981.  He said the engine was seized, and the rear rim will have to be replaced, as well as the tires and exhaust... that's all pretty obvious and expected stuff though.  So, how much did I end up paying?  $500 (CDN).  Please don't hurt me!

 I got her home this afternoon, and decided that the first course of action should be to remove all the valuable or hard-to-find bits, and so I set about pulling off every rubber or shiny chrome part I could get my grubby little hands on.  I soaked every bolt/screw head I could see with SeaFoam Deep Creep, but that turned out to be unnecessary on everything I touched today.  As rusty as it all is and looks, everything came apart without the slightest complaint... I was pretty dumbfounded, and it was complete bliss to start wrenching on such a gorgeous vintage bike in some of the first warm sunshine of spring, and have it come apart effortlessly.  I think someone along the line (there aren't many - I think I'll 'technically' be the 2nd owner) put something on all the bolts/threads to prevent them seizing up, and that's why it was so easy.  I intend to continue the trend by putting Never-Seez on every thing threaded I take off or put on the bike - except sparkplugs, or places it could affect electrical conductivity. 

  One of the shiny AND rubber parts I tried to get off was the shifter arm.  Without thinking, I started wiggling it to try to get it off of the little shaft from the engine, and clicked it from neutral into 1st or second.  With a seized engine.  Oops...great, now how am I going to push it around?  Pulling the clutch cable had the expected result of doing absolutely nothing.  Damn.  Looking at it closer, though, the external linkage wasn't moving, either.  A little gentle persuading with a wrench and -- hey, did that just move?  I tried the handle -- and got a little motion!  I disconnected the cable and ran some Deep Creep into it from the top end, getting a little more play out of it, and continued the cycle of working the cable, applying DC, working the cable, waiting, etc.  I got the full range of the clutch back, so in came the lever, snick went the shifter to get into 5th (for the least rolling resistance), and I started to push.  It went great for the first inch or two, then I felt some resistance...great, I misadjusted the slack, and the clutch isn't fully disengaging, so now I'm pushing against a seized engine..but, there was this awesome, deep, fluttery noise.  Kind of like..air escaping through valves and tubing. Hmm. Hopped on the bike, kicked the kickstarter, and rolled forward a few inches.  Yes, it turns out the 'seized' engine is not seized at all.  That just saved me a large chunk of $$$ and a huge amount of time and frustration!  There were very few words to describe how awesome it felt at that moment.

  In terms of my plans for this bike?  Strip it, make all the rusty shiny parts just shiny again, repaint the frame, and ride the hell out of it.  The only two things I may do are put on a set of adjustable clubman bars, and try to put in a CB 750 swingarm so I can run a more common/easy to find rim, with a disc setup.  No offense to the cafe guys, but with all the stunning examples running around my attempt would not be on par, and I think this bike will be just as (if not more) unique in an unmolested state.

  Thanks for reading all of this, and I WILL update this thread more frequently than my CB350Four thread (yes, I have two project bikes, am a fulltime student, and think I have rocks in my head sometimes).  I'll likely hold on to the 350F stuff for a bit, but i'll probably end up selling it all off to raise funds for this bike, which was _exactly_ what I wanted when I set out looking for a '70s CB... I just never thought I'd find one in this shape within my price range.

[Johnie]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh...nice find my friend.  What a great feeling that must have been to have that engine turnover.  Like a huge weight lifted off your shoulders.  Please do keep us informed.  Thanks for the neat pics and remember...this is fun!!!

[rachet]

Great find! the 550 is quickly becoming a favorite of mine and there are some great builds around them.  If you want some GREAT inspiration, check out Paulages threads. http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=6254.0 for His bike build and http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=40414.0 for his Hybrid motor build.

I love the Cafe Racer look, but for your bike do what you like.  They're good looking bikes anyways, even with out Extreme modifications.

Rachet~

[Hush]

Nice find my friend, one thing, I wouldn't kick or try to turn the motor over until you let it soak up some fine oil shot down the spark plug holes, its been a few years since any form of lube coated those pistons and scouring the bores might be expensive.
When you say the PO had it tarped in a back alley, did he mention under a tree or is that tumble weed stuck in the carbs?
Man I hate those pull back bars, they just don't seem to suit any bike, maybe in the 80's they were cool but I've never seen them as an improvement to any bike, good call-dump them fast.

[Pirate]

Johnie:
It was an indescribable feeling.  I had a stupid grin on my face all day from just buying the bike and realizing it was mine (even with thinking the engine was seized), and then it turned out it wasn't... what a rush!

rachet:
I had a look at his threads, and I especially like FunJimmys 'take': http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27159.0  .  The amount of work and dedication that went into that bike is absolutely stunning, and it's a perfect example of a cafe racer...I especially like the bigger wheels.  The best part is, he's in the same town so I may even see him around.

Hush:
That same thought had occurred to me, and before I discovered that the engine wasn't seized, I was trying to get the plugs out to do exactly that.  Of course, the size of plugs that are in this bike were'nt any of the 3 sizes I have *sigh*.  Could someone please tell me what size it might be?  The one thing this bike didn't come with is the toolkit (or else, I haven't found it yet)...it's not a Honda specific thing, is it?

Regarding the vegetation in the bike -- It was definitely parked under/somewhere near a cedar tree, as there are all kinds of little bits of cedar branches tucked away in the bike.  Your tumbleweed comment made recheck the pictures, and then I laughed -- the forsythia bush in the driveway behind the bike DOES look like tumbleweed stuck in the carbs -- this is the wild west, afterall!

In General:
The pullback bars are going, without a doubt.  There was a thread on these forums talking about mounting clubman bars upside down, or even alternating between the two.  http://www.rearsets.info/handlebars.html.  Someone in there recommended a set of adjustable clubmans (clubmen? ) by Laverda from http://www.rearsets.info/handlebars.html, but that pagee says nothing about them being Laverda...

Eh, that's all a bit of food for thought for the future, anyway.  For the present, is there much parts interchangability between the 350F and 550F?  Specifically with, say, a rear rim/wheel?  Bikez.com lists the 350F as having a 3.50 x 18 rear wheel, while the 550F SS has a 3.75 x 18.  From the tech section post on tires/wheels, would that mean I could run a 100/90 on a 350F wheel, instead of the 110/90 on this bike?

Thanks!

[FunJimmy]

Congratulations on your find. It looks like a good candidate for your project, especially with a free turning engine.

I had a look at his threads, and I especially like FunJimmys 'take': http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=27159.0  .  The amount of work and dedication that went into that bike is absolutely stunning, and it's a perfect example of a cafe racer...I especially like the bigger wheels.  The best part is, he's in the same town so I may even see him around.

I’m easy to find if you ever want to stop by and chat. I’ll also be at the Tsawwassen Swap meet in April 19th. Get that bike running enough to make it out.

Cheers
Jimmy

[BeSeeingYou]

I love the "see through" section on the muffler. 

[DarkRider]

Great find man. I will own another CB550 someday.

[Hush]

              ;DI love the "see through" section on the muffler.   
Looks like someone drove a bus through it!

[Mach-5(50)]

here is an interesting handlebar. the "M" bar.   http://newbonneville.com/html/hyde_handlebars.html
i haven't heard from anyone who has them, but the seem like a reasonable compromise for a clubman bar. sort of like the superbike style bar, that seems to have become the new bar of choice for comfort and practicality.

congrats on a great score. look forward to seeing your progress.

later,

ryan

[fastbroshi]

  You're bike seems reasonably intact, however rough.   Heck the battery strap is still there.

[Hush]

We used to call them handlebars "Z" bars, not sure why but I remember they hurt your back on a long trip.
The other ones look very similar to the new ones I put on my partners ride, a GSX400L.

[DarkRider]

They look a lot like the factory bars off a Suzuki GS.

[Pirate]

  Alright, it's been a few weeks, and I haven't been able to do much, but I've started.  First up are a few pics of the bike the day I bought it, after I stripped off all of the hard-to-find or chrome parts.  During the process, I decided that 'her' name will be 'Jocelyn'.





  I decided that my course of action will be to make sure that the bike runs, before I strip it to the frame, have it sand/bead blasted, paint, and reassemble.  Today I pulled the carb bank out, removed two of the bowls, and found black-brown sludgy 29 year old gas.  It was as if the gas was beginning to revert back to crude oil.

  With the task of cleaning all 4 out,  it made sense to handle all the carbs separately.  After consulting the shop manual, I did just that.  Each one is in it's own labelled Ziploc bag for the moment, and I'll clean/dry all of them individually.

  As far as the cleaning goes, I'm doing the outsides with Dawn dishwashing detergent and balled-up aluminum foil (a tip I picked up from here).  The insides are getting soaked in a (strongly) diluted product from Melaleuca, which has similar results to Simple Green, except there is no blackening of aluminum parts as I have read can/does happen with SG.



  I'm assuming that since others have used SG (which is itself diluted with water), it's not harmful to the inner workings of the carbs?  I'm going to dry them all out and use a light oil on all moving parts, just to make sure.

  On another note, the aluminum (?) float bowls and carburetor head caps -for lack of a better term- appear...corroded?  There's a weird dark gray spiderweb like pattern on them, that does not come off after scrubbing with the foil.  Does that mean I have to polish all the aluminum parts?  What do I coat it with afterwards to make sure it doesn't happen again?

  Here is a pic of what I'm talking about.  A whole lot of the parts on this bike are like this, and so I'm hoping someone has a simple answer/solution!

[papp101]

Nice find!

I would venture to say that all the parts on the outside of my baby looked like that carb bowl.



Here's what I did to make them end up like this:



If they are that badly pitted -

1) "Tal-Strip" which is a spray, or aircraft stripper. Use WELL VENTILATED! 15 Minutes, water wash, and hit any spots you missed again.

2) Start with 800 grit wetsand. If that won't take it out, do 600, and if not then 400. Work your way back up, 400, 600, 800.

3) Buffing wheel (spiral sewn) or dremel buffers. Brown Tripoli buffing compound (see http://www.caswellplating.com ) then wipe with acetone or paint thinner or brake cleaner, then the White Tripolie buffing compound.

Use "cutting strokes" going against the motion of the wheel, then finish with buffing strokes going with the wheel.


More people have different solutions, but that brought my parts around just fine for me. I'll be doing my carb bowls and bodies soon!

Good luck! More Pics!

[Hush]

Nice work Papp, I'll send you all my side covers that some idiot painted.
That webbing on the alloy is like old aged alloy, seen it often on old bikes but not sure why it happens.

[Pirate]

Just another quick question about the 'appropriate' tools for this.  Currently, I'm using an old toothbrush, wooden toothpicks, and some fie copper wire in terms of hand tools.  I'm thinking a brass-bristled brush would be faster than the toothbrush, without scratching the aluminum, right?  Some of this crud is really on here.  One carb has now spent the night soaking in the Melaleuca cleaner I had mentioned before, without any discoloration and most of the sludge has softened up to the point where the toothbrush takes care of it.

In some areas, though, it doesn't cut it, and I'm wondering what else I could use that wouldn't scrape the hell out of my carbs.

 Thanks!

   

[fastbroshi]

  First off, you had your carbs in there overnight and the stuff only softened up?  I had my carbs in undiluted Simple Green for oh say an 2 hours and they came out literally squeeky clean.  After spraying off with the garden hose  (I think this is why they had a bit of that white oxidizing the next day)  they were great, little dabs of grease here and there that I got off w/ q-tips notwithstanding.  This stuff obliterates grease.  Just don't dump them in there overnight or they might discolor.  You wouldn't need to keep them in there near that long anyway.

[Pirate]

Alright,

 So far I've gotten 2 out of 4 carburetors cleaned.  These pics are of #4 (the right-most one if sitting on the bike).





I managed to find some small fuel line that seals around pretty much every hole in the jet area of the carb, so after soaking, scrubbing, and rinsing, I blow through it to dislodge any crud that was missed and then rinse it out again (I'm either OCD or thorough, I haven't decided which yet).  Anyway, I'm assuming that the brass tube at the bottom of the 'butterfly' in the first picture is also supposed to be able to flow air?  I haven't had much luck with this one.  Where is the 'exit' of it?  The idle jet?
 
  Pic 3 is just showing off how clean I've managed to get the float bowls.

  Pic 4 is the floats themselves.  Is this how they are meant to be oriented in the carbs, if the carbs are back in the bike?  I haven't been putting them back in upside down, have I?  I can see a shiny 'wear' point on the tab in the centre, which I assume is from the pin on the float valve, so as long as that matches up, I'm fine?.

  Finally, I haven't had luck with cleaning out either of the slow (idle) jets, so I think I'm going to save my sanity and just get new ones for all 4 carbs.  Soaking in simple green, dish soap, and even rubbing alcohol (all separately) have not done anything.  The thinnest of copper wires will not even pass through the hole, so I think it's a lost cause.

[TwoTired]

There's a weird dark gray spiderweb like pattern on them, that does not come off after scrubbing with the foil.

Pretty sure that's called "filiform corrosion"  Like what happens here  watch the movie:
http://aluminium.matter.org.uk/content/html/eng/default.asp?catid=180&pageid=2144416691

Anyway, corrosion  is what happens the the parent material is chemical converted to something other than what the parent material was.
  It has to be mechanically remove with something abrasive, so the parent metal is at the surface again.

As for cleaning jets, why don't you use carburetor cleaner in those aerosol cans?

Cheers,

[fastbroshi]

You have a personal message.

[Pirate]

**THREAD NECROMANCY!**
After quite a bit of a hiatus from working on the bike, I've officially graduated university!  I've worked on the bike here and there since I last posted, but it wasn't really anything that was worthy of an update.

I went to a double-header of swap meets (one in Mt Vernon, Wa, and another in Tsawwassen BC) back in April.  I managed to find a few needed pieces for really good prices.  A brand new Takasago 1.85x18" rim, an aluminum DID 2.15x18" rear rim & hub, 400F bars & switches, a spare tank, another whole rack of carbs, annnd, I think that's it.

Given that my work area is approximately a 10'x5' tarp-covered area under my back deck, and we've had a pretty late spring, progress was pretty slow.  Recently, the weather got better and I was able to build a rolling engine stand, so I can move it around (i.e, inside) easily.

I cleaned out and re-assembled the second set of carbs I picked up (which were much less clogged than my other set), set up a siphon from a fuel can, and tried kicking the bike over, but absolutely nothing happened.  I decided that as I redo the bike, I'll go through it and make sure all connections are clean, points are good, etc.

Anyway, on with the pictures!  There aren't many, because I was too busy pulling stuff apart.

Engine out, and on its' stand.


The work area.  That's my other bike (TW200) that's also out of commission, because the splines on the primary drive shaft wore down until they were completely smooth.  There's a two-week backorder on the part, and replacing it involves pulling the engine, splitting the cases, and then repeating it all backwards :S.  This 550 might be done first...


The frame, almost completely stripped!  By the time I got the center & side stands off, and the triple tree out, it was almost too dark to see/take pictures.  Tomorrow is a trip to a "you-blast" media blasting place, where I'm going to soda blast it.


There is currently Simple Green soaking into the MASS of gunk that is coating the usual areas.  I'm going to clean all the crap off, because I've heard (and experienced) that media blasting won't take it off, it just adds to the mess.


The swingarm is in much the same shape.



I managed to fix my broken sidecovers after reading a thread here recommending MEK.  I found a very similar product at my local hobby shop that does the same thing, without 'frosting' over like crazy glue, or stripping paint.  It's called Pro Weld, by Ambroid..works perfectly, highly recommended!

So, there it sits as of now.  Like I say, I'm going to soda blast everything that was painted black from the factory, tomorrow.  Then I have to go back to my parents' place for a few days to house-sit, which means I'll have a lot of time to prep the frame for coating it with POR-15.  After THAT, it's time to start putting stuff back in, cleaning up and replacing as I go.  I picked up a fastener guide today, that'll tell me diameter, pitch, etc. so I can replace pretty much everything on the bike with stainless (where it'll be strong enough).  I'm still aiming to have the bike rideable/presentable for a show on Fathers' Day.

Progress from now on should be much faster, except where I have downtimes waiting for parts, but I'm trying to get everything in a row so I can just keep working.  I'm really looking forward to having this bike done!

[754]

Man thats a bit of work..

PM me your postal code.

[Pirate]

So,
 
 3 hours and $175 later at the self-sandblasting place, I cleaned up pretty much every non-chrome, metal part of the bike.  I garnet (sand) blasted every part except the front fork lowers, on which I used glass beads.  Man, did it ever get rid of that corrosion/light pitting.  I'll still need to sand/polish them up, but they look amazing compared to how they used to look.

The frame, down to bare metal, wiped clean with solvent, and ready for 'priming':





Top triple clamp, battery box, sidestand.  Also wiped down and ready for priming/etching.  Since I'm going through all the effort of going right back to the frame, I've decided to paint the whole thing with POR-15 "Black-Cote", which is their gloss black, non-UV sensitive coating.



To prepare the bare metal, and to get the best adhesion possible, they recommend degreasing then soaking in another of their products, "Metal Ready".  This is supposed to improve the adhesion of the topcoat, in this case the black gloss.

Everything set up, and ready to go:


A few small pieces, ready to go.  You can actually see some fizzing/etching going on already, and the metal goes a little darker.



I gave the frame the same treatment.  This was a bit tricky as you're supposed to let the Metal Ready sit for 15 minutes, then rinse off with water.  I was dabbing the stuff on with a foam applicator, and due to the "intricacies" of the frame, the headstock dried up by the time I got midway down the frame, so I had to keep re-wetting parts I had already worked on, as I continued on to new areas.  If I had been thinking, I could've done it in about 5 minutes with a spray bottle.
 





Everything rinsed off with water, and sitting in the sun to dry. 







I've done my TW200 frame with POR-15 before, and as I lack the proper equipment to spray it on like normal paint, the next best way I've found to apply it is by dabbing it on with a foam brush.  This takes quite a while, but you can ensure a nice, even coat.  Once the stuff is applied, it 'flows' out by itself really nicely, getting rid of the little bubble/streak marks and leaving a really nice gloss finish:



I'm especially pleased with the top triple clamp, as I'm pretty sure it's an aluminum alloy of some kind (which I didn't realize until after sandblasting).  The metal ready seemed to have little (if any) effect, and the black gloss coat didn't really flow properly on it, either.  Given time to set up though, I may not have to do a second coat - but I probably will, because I'm like that!:


Tomorrow will probably see me putting in many painstaking hours of doing the frame, but if the above pieces are any indication, it should look amazing...

[Pirate]

Well, it took me two days, but that's a small price to pay for the likelihood that this frame will never rust again.  Also, I went with this paint/coating because I can fix any scratches etc. myself, in a matter of minutes by wiping the area with solvent, letting it flash off, then dabbing more paint on.  The way this stuff flows on its own means that it's very easy to blend in to existing areas.

  I'm not worried that the bolt holes didn't get painted, because it's been my experience that the paint just wears off anyway.  Besides, every nut & bolt on the bike is going to be coated with "never-seize", which will also probably coat the inside of the holes.

There are some 'flaws' in my job, but in all I'm really happy with how it turned out.  It's WAY better than when I got the bike, for sure.

Yesterdays' progress:




Today's progress.  Finished up the underside of the frame, any 'missed spots', etc.






Now, I can't help but think that while the engine is out of the bike, I should probably clean and paint it too, if I can.  I was thinking of cleaning/degreasing it, scrubbing it with a brass bristled brush, and then spraying it with Tal-Strip aircraft (aluminum) stripper.  Once that's done its' job, I'd spray it off with water, let it dry, and then paint it with either primer and then VHT silver paint, or yet another POR 15 product, POR-20 (http://www.canada-por15.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=P20&Category_Code=HiTemp).  From pictures I've seen, it looks a lot like the stock colour.  Apparently, however, it needs to be cured for 30 min at 400* (Fahrenheit).  This isn't much different from other paints, but my bike doesn't run, and won't until after the 'bare minimum' running gear has made it back on to the frame.  I don't want to paint it in place, but I don't want to chip it while putting it back in, either.  Can I heat it up with a heat gun?  Some of those definitely get above the required 400*...