Author Topic: Opinions Wanted: 16" Rear Wheel on a Cafe Racer (Read 24663 times)

srook · « **on:** February 27, 2009, 01:56:16 PM »

Hi
Building a CB750 Cafe Racer with Dunstall bodywork. What are opinions on using a 16" wheel in the back? I am considering it. I wanted to use an 18" wheel but I am limited by the lack of availability of 18" Lesters. All opinions welcomed.

Here are some pics of what I am building. My bike will have the full fairing and the 2 piece tank and seat unit not the one piece tank/seat cover.

Thanks
Scott

drackett_19 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 27, 2009, 02:19:21 PM »

I don't mind bikes running a 16" rear wheel, especially if they're sporting a 5.00-16 Avon MKII. But IMO if I was doing up a cafe racer with a Dunstall body kit, i would be keeping it as close to factory specs as possible. The 16 just seems like a tire you find on custom bobber/chopper/rat bikes and the Dunstall's don't really fit that bill...IMO. But on the other hand, do whatever you like, you'll be the one riding it and looking at it everyday. hell maybe it'd look killer with a 16 rear. sorry i'm not much help

MCRider · « **Reply #2 on:** February 27, 2009, 03:13:00 PM »

Truth be known, the original Dunstall CB750 (fitted up by Dunstall in England) used a 19" rear wheel. The ones in the Dunstall ad. More ground clearance. A "racer" consideration. (Notice how close the tire is to the ground while its on the centerstand)

I realize a lot of people like the beefy look of the 16", but its not "traditional" cafe racer. Look at the films, no ACE Cafe people had 16s.

They are heavy, unsprung weight being counter to performance, the width would have impeded handling in those days, and these, the rotating mass would heat up the brakes.

(Granted I may be overstating the negatives as I don't like them.)

I cringe at the thought, (you asked) but make yourself happy.

PS: I searched the Internet for Dunstall CB750, and found it on our own site!
http://www.sohc4.net/index.php?title=1973_Cycle_World_Test:_Dunstall_Honda_750

Evidently the 19" rear was to gear it up and ground clearance. But the Dunstall pipes pushed the sidestand down and negated the ground clearnace advantage.

Engineering is hard.

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #3 on:** February 27, 2009, 03:48:51 PM »

Yep, 16" are fer choppers, not cafes.

srook · « **Reply #4 on:** February 27, 2009, 04:42:11 PM »

I understand the traditional 16" for choppers/customs. I know about the 19" wheels front and back on the original Dunstalls (WM2 with Dunlop 4.10x19 K81). I am using Lester Wheels though. The reason for this is I wanted something a little different and cost. I was looking at about $1000 for Buchanans to lace up and true a set of 19" excels with ss spokes. I may still get them in the future but for now I am locked into the Lesters if I want this thing on the road by summer (and I do). The problem is I only have a front Lester. I have been looking on ebay for a while and there just so happens to be 16" Lester on ebay when I have the money to spend on it. I know Carpy used a 16" on his original Black bike and it looked a little off. Well I have 6 days until the auction closes to decide if I want a 16" or if I should hold out for the 18". Just for fun the later Dunstall CB750 used 19" front and 18" rear Lesters. This was the F based machine though not the K. Anyone know of any vintage looking tires for a 16" rim?

Thanks
Scott

MCRider · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2009, 05:37:25 PM »

Don't let me (us) slow you down too much. You mentioned the Lesters and I didn't know what you had. If you can get on the road with the 16" go for it.

The only "vintage" (1970s) 16 inch tires may be a little blocky, automotive in appearance. I'ld look for something actually with a more modern profile.

Don't really know for a fact.

Interesting trivia on the Dunstall.

Industrial Cafe · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2009, 06:20:31 PM »

tell ya what, I put a 16x4.25 with a 130/90/16 on the back of my bike.
I liked it for a while, but now I don't. It just looks miniature, out of place, and the tire looks obese.

some of you guys have read my early posts on here, I'm going 21's front and rear.
why, you might ask? pretty much just to stand out.

fishhead · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2009, 04:52:25 AM »

I prefer the 18 inch rear wheels (esp. on a Cafe/Dunstall), but like you said, the 18 Lesters are getting pretty hard to find.
If you can get the 16 Lester for a reasonable price, get it as it wont look as "odd" as a Lester front/Spoked rear wheel combination.
Heres my Dunstall. It had a bunch of different mag wheels on it before I went back to alloy spoked rims (18 & 19 - back to what it originally had on it when I got it).

swan · « **Reply #8 on:** February 28, 2009, 06:07:44 AM »

No.

Use 16" rears for other styles of bikes. You are limiting your selection of tires. Cafe racers are about speed, lighter weights and handling.

Sell your ugly front lester and buy spoked wheels if you want a cafe racer.

Buchannan's prices are usually lower than what they list on their website in my experience. There are thousands of used Honda wheels available on E-bay, Craiglslist, this and other forums. New rims and spokes are available from Honda. A pair of new rims are approximately $115 for 18" rear and $70 for a 19" front. Spoke kits from Partsnmore are $29.00.

Lacing and truing wheels is not difficult to learn and there are very good tutorials on this forum.

Avons and Dunlops are good tires with several styles for 18" and 19" rims.

It is my opinion (and others are welcome to disagree) that Lester wheels are one the ugliest things ever put on a motorcycle. Spoked wheels are elegant, classic and period correct for a cafe racer.

micol · « **Reply #9 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:15:32 AM »

I have had a 16" on my 750 for a long time. I liked the look of it, yet it never felt as good as the original 18". Fine going down the road, but not as good in the turns. Just recently laced up a new 18" rim with new spokes to go back to. All depends on what look you want and the tradeoff in feel and handling.

MCRider · « **Reply #10 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:29:16 AM »

Quote from: swan on February 28, 2009, 06:07:44 AM

No.

Use 16" rears for other styles of bikes. You are limiting your selection of tires. Cafe racers are about speed, lighter weights and handling.

Sell your ugly front lester and buy spoked wheels if you want a cafe racer.

Buchannan's prices are usually lower than what they list on their website in my experience. There are thousands of used Honda wheels available on E-bay, Craiglslist, this and other forums. New rims and spokes are available from Honda. A pair of new rims are approximately $115 for 18" rear and $70 for a 19" front. Spoke kits from Partsnmore are $29.00.

Lacing and truing wheels is not difficult to learn and there are very good tutorials on this forum.

Avons and Dunlops are good tires with several styles for 18" and 19" rims.

It is my opinion (and others are welcome to disagree) that Lester wheels are one the ugliest things ever put on a motorcycle. Spoked wheels are elegant, classic and period correct for a cafe racer.

I won't go as far as say the Lesters are ugly, but the spoked wheel, SS spokes and aluminum rim shoulder or flat, is superior in every way IMO, and the better choice for a Cafe Racer.

Shouldered brings back the early 70s look, the high center flats rims the late 70s. In my mind.

I think the early cast wheels were not necessarily light, not lighter than the spoked. They looked racier as racers used them, but racer wheels were often magnesium, too expensive for street production use. Not sure on that idea completely.

Really? · « **Reply #11 on:** February 28, 2009, 10:34:22 AM »

Nice bike you got there fishhead.

srook · « **Reply #12 on:** February 28, 2009, 11:11:15 AM »

Tell us how you really feel Swan

. I have to disagree. Cafe racers of the 50s and 60s should have spoked aluminum rims, but cafe racers from the 70s are a different story. The mag wheels from the 70s were not lighter than their spoked counterparts but they were much stronger and stiffer. Quite simpy they were an upgrade. They required no maintenance to keep them round and true. The Seeley Mile Eater came with Lesters as well as the later Dunstalls. Either way stock steel rims with plated spokes aren't an option. Anyone have any pics of a CB750 with a 16" mag wheel?
Scott

katmol · « **Reply #13 on:** March 01, 2009, 01:49:06 AM »

I have an 18" lester I'll trade for your 16"

Quote from: srook on February 27, 2009, 04:42:11 PM

I understand the traditional 16" for choppers/customs. I know about the 19" wheels front and back on the original Dunstalls (WM2 with Dunlop 4.10x19 K81). I am using Lester Wheels though. The reason for this is I wanted something a little different and cost. I was looking at about $1000 for Buchanans to lace up and true a set of 19" excels with ss spokes. I may still get them in the future but for now I am locked into the Lesters if I want this thing on the road by summer (and I do). The problem is I only have a front Lester. I have been looking on ebay for a while and there just so happens to be 16" Lester on ebay when I have the money to spend on it. I know Carpy used a 16" on his original Black bike and it looked a little off. Well I have 6 days until the auction closes to decide if I want a 16" or if I should hold out for the 18". Just for fun the later Dunstall CB750 used 19" front and 18" rear Lesters. This was the F based machine though not the K. Anyone know of any vintage looking tires for a 16" rim?

Thanks
Scott

736cc · « **Reply #14 on:** March 01, 2009, 09:25:50 AM »

16" Dunlop GT501 130/90-16 on a Morris mag. The Dunlop is the best tire I've ever run, no issues whatsoever. And it looks FAT!

Belted for extra load capacity
Same proven bias-ply construction as Dunlop's K591, but with a radial-style tread pattern for more contemporary styling and a larger footprint
Larger contact patch increases cornering confidence, with smooth side-to-side transitions
Higher tread-to-void ratio produces superior grip in dry conditions with no loss of grip in wet weather
Increased pattern depth at the center of the tread for improved wear characteristics
New tread pattern offers increased stability
Rear features new, improved compound for better wear resistance and greater grip
Sidewall ID Information: DUNLOP 130/90B-16 M/C 67V GT501 ARROWMAX

DIMENSIONS
Inflated Width/Measuring Rim Width: 5.25 in. / 3.0 in.
Inflated Diameter: 24.9 in.
Acceptable Rim Width: 3.0 in.
Deepest Tread Depth: 8/32 in.
Balance DOT: Yes
Directional Arrow: Yes
Speed Rating: V-Rated up to 149 MPH

srook · « **Reply #15 on:** March 01, 2009, 06:50:09 PM »

Katmol,
Its a deal. I have to win the 16" Lester first, but I would definatlely trade it. The auction ends on Thursday so I will let you know.
736
That bike looks really good. The 16" wheel fits it nicely. Thanks for the info on the tire.
Scott

katmol · « **Reply #16 on:** March 07, 2009, 02:31:53 PM »

I guess it wasn't a deal after all. Thanks Scott. Anybody else want to swap their 16" Lester rear for my 18" Lester rear.

Quote from: srook on March 01, 2009, 06:50:09 PM

Katmol,
Its a deal. I have to win the 16" Lester first, but I would definatlely trade it. The auction ends on Thursday so I will let you know.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #17 on:** March 26, 2009, 04:46:38 AM »

Yeah, I think it's a bit harsh calling the old 1970's mag wheels "Fugly", they were used on race bikes because they were more rigid than spoked wheels, which of course is why you don't see spoked wheels on modern race bikes, but they were horribly heavy and most were not suited for tubeless tires, and I still remember when Ducati recalled all the (quite beautiful) Mags that they put on their original bevel drive 900SS, Darmah ("Drama" as they were cruelly, but accurately nicknamed back then) etc, due to stress fractures.

It wasn't until Honda dared to use the Comstar mag wheel that they themselves designed, first on their race bikes and then on the CB750F2/F3, that you could get a light alloy and steel wheel (later models had all alloy wheels which were lighter still) with several times the rigidity of a spoked wheel that would also accept tubeless tire application. At the time they were a revelation, but many of the "form over function" media panned them, which is a shame.

I have to agree with the majority here though, 16 inch "Hog" wheels were just that, a 16" Harley rim laced to a Honda hub to give the bike that "phat-asss" look. I've got one on my K1 with a 150/90 - 16 Bridgestone BT45 tire on it, and it looks great, and the bike handles fine, but the K1 is a "laid back Kruiser", (albeit with a beastly 836cc race engine) not a Cafe racer like yours, and my opinion (well, you did ask for it........) is that all the cafe's I've seen with 16" rear wheels look like an el-cheapo compromise because the owner wanted a wider rear tire, but couldn't afford a decent wide 18" rear rim.

Of course, it's Carpy's fault for sticking crappy old Hog wheels on his bikes and flogging them off to the guys who weren't around "back in the day", and convincing them that an air gap of twelve inches or so between rear tire and fender is "de rigueur" for Cafe bikes, when of course, the original cafe guys would cringe at this "revelation". But hey, you can't blame a guy for trying to make a living, and what his bikes lack in quality components, he makes up for with his excellent salesmanship. Cheers, Terry.

thelowmax · « **Reply #18 on:** December 12, 2012, 10:56:17 PM »

Terry,

Do you still have the 150/90/16 on your K1? Can you post a picture? I recently bought the same tire but now am second guessing myself. I think it will be cool but would like a look at the combo to get it right in my head. I can't find any pictures anywhere. Thanks.

Terry in Australia · « **Reply #19 on:** December 12, 2012, 11:43:44 PM »

Quote from: thelowmax on December 12, 2012, 10:56:17 PM

Terry,

Do you still have the 150/90/16 on your K1? Can you post a picture? I recently bought the same tire but now am second guessing myself. I think it will be cool but would like a look at the combo to get it right in my head. I can't find any pictures anywhere. Thanks.

G'Day Mate, no worries, it's temporarily on the back of my Cafe Racer, I sold my beautiful mag wheels to a guy in Japan for 1100 bucks, so I couldn't say no. I'll take a pic tomorrow when I get home from work. Cheers, Terry.

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #20 on:** December 13, 2012, 02:04:12 PM »

Industrial Cafe, the reason your rear tire looks so small is because you have longer shocks that pushes the backend higher. If you took an 18" tire and wheel and stand it next to a 16" tire/wheel it is only 1" taller not 2" as most would think.
Same principal as if you had 15" wheels on you car and you decided you wanted 17" with LO-Profile tires= same overall height but 2' difference in wheel size.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Scott S · « **Reply #21 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:44:47 PM »

Quote from: katmol on March 07, 2009, 02:31:53 PM

I guess it wasn't a deal after all. Thanks Scott. Anybody else want to swap their 16" Lester rear for my 18" Lester rear.

Quote from: srook on March 01, 2009, 06:50:09 PM
Katmol,
Its a deal. I have to win the 16" Lester first, but I would definatlely trade it. The auction ends on Thursday so I will let you know.

I will....check your PM's.
Here's a set of 19"/16" Lesters on a cafe'-ish bike:

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #22 on:** December 13, 2012, 05:57:41 PM »

Nice looking CAFE there Scott S. What makes the 16" look like it FITS is a fatter tire and 11" shocks. Clean set-up

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Scott S · « **Reply #23 on:** December 13, 2012, 06:16:17 PM »

That's a 130/90-16 tire and stock 12.5" CB550 shocks.

Scott S · « **Reply #24 on:** December 13, 2012, 06:19:35 PM »

Here's another pic. Plus, even though it's not a Honda, one of my old XS650 cafe racer with stock 19"/16" Yamaha wheels.

News:

Author Topic: Opinions Wanted: 16" Rear Wheel on a Cafe Racer (Read 24663 times)

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