Author Topic: Protection in the city  (Read 8834 times)

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2009, 12:29:17 AM »
I agree Salvatore, i was brought up to believe 2 wrongs don't make a right. The problem in the US is it has become part of mainstream culture to carry guns, this is what must change. The sight of Charlton Heston turning up after a "massacre" sprouting the views of the gun lobby sickens me.

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2009, 03:42:07 AM »
The best protection is to be observant and prepared.

I think this is probably some of the best advice you can get.  Even with CC permit or any self defense training - preparedness, assessment, recognition, and avoidance is the best tactic. 

Me personally, I think adding the element of CC is a good thing.  I really believe that the idea of properly trained and liscensed people with guns (make it hard with VERY GOOD training, and qualifications), really deters thuggings - because you add the element that the person you are about to wrong may actually be a lethal threat to you.  Makes criminals think twice about their actions - before they act.  I really think people do wrong because they think they can get away with it.  Do you speed past a cop on the road?  No - because you are pretty sure  you will get a ticket for it, right?   

All said: pepper spray, shockers, guns, self defence courses - IMHO whatever you want to pull - is useless if you are already committed to the situation.  Once something is in motion, If you are lucky (absolutely no reliance on skill) it may help your situation, but the odds are against you.   

Simply changing direction, crossing the street, or making an avoidance manuver is the best defense.     

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2009, 03:59:16 AM »
Ok lets clear up a few things here. 1/ I am NOT anti guns,
You do seem to write as though you are.

2/ your statistics are probably correct but what about all the underground guns they are the ones doing the damage.,
You means the ones criminals use?  They don't go away by removing guns from the law abiding.  Why would you wish to give the advantage to the criminals?

who needs fully automatic assault rifles apart from the armed forces? I was informed that in some southern states you can purchase these guns without any permit at all and these are the "weapons of mass destruction" that i refer to.
You have been misinformed.  Full auto guns came under strict Federal control in 1934.  The law is still in full effect.  You need a class 3 Federal Fireams License (application, fees, fingerprinting, background check, etc.), to own one, or any parts that may be used to assemble one.  And, the license requires pretty strict accountability for the "owned" whereabouts of said firearm/full-auto parts, and strict requirements for transfer only to other Class 3 FFL holders.  Even then, some states do not allow civilian full auto ownership (CA is one of those).  The anti-gun lobby, Hollywood, and the broadcast media have effectively taught the uneducated, that a gun that looks similar to true assault rifles used my the military is the same thing, even though they are only capable of semi-auto fire, a single round fired for each pull of the trigger, similar to the capabilities of a revolver.  An AR-15 may look like an M-16 assault rifle.  But, the AR-15 is NOT capable of full auto fire.  An AKM may LOOK like an AK-47assault rifle, but it fires only one round at a time.   An SAR-48 may look like an FN-FAL assault rifle, but it still fires one round per trigger pull. They can't even be converted to fire full auto, as the parts needed that have this capability are under class 3 FFL tracking and control. 

As i said previously, we don't have massacres here, well there was one that caused them to be banned in the first place but this idiot was only carrying a knife until he stumbled on someones "legal" stash of guns and went nuts, that was 13 years ago, none before and none since. As i stated this is just my opinion and i am not trying to start an "anti gun" story out of this, i just think they are to readily available making it easier for nut jobs to get their hands on them and create mayhem.

As I said before, as your population increases, you'll get more (provided you have any freedom left).  It's a matter of percentages.  If you have 1000 people and 0.01% goes homicidal, 999 people have to deal with 1 "nut job".
We have over 300,000,000 people here.  AU has 21-22 million, and I'm guessing that you have a stronger sense of community, as we once did when our population was smaller (in 1850).  If we have 0.001% go whack, we have to deal with 3,000 "nut jobs".  If you have 0.001% go whack in AU, you have 220 to deal with distributed about your country.  Besides, what kind of news do you think your country imports from America?  Who controls your media in AU?  Any of them have a desire to paint the US in a good light?
Our media lies to viewers in the US regularly.  When California was pushing through their "assault weapons" ban, (already a lie) the talking TV heads touted the devastating power of an AK-47.  In the background they showed (split screen) an AKM (looks like an AK-47) firing, and on the other side of the split, a watermelon exploding from the impact.  What they never revealed to the entertained viewers was that the single tiny hole the AK put in the watermelon wasn't visually sensational enough.  So, the officer supervising the staged event pulled out his 9mm sidearm, loaded with standard issue hollow points (intended for use on the public) and shot the watermelon, causing it to explode for the camera.  The public doesn't need to know, they just need to be trained.  It is extremely, extremely rare to see any new story that paints guns in a good light, even when employed righteously by police, and certainly not by ordinary citizens.  A righteous use of firearm in self defense will have the victim portrayed as a vicious killer just asking for trouble by the mere possession of a gun. (I wish I were exaggerating)  And, these same new stories are picked up abroad.

Anyway, you have "nut jobs" there in AU, too.  They simply find other ways to create mayhem, like lighting fires to torch multiple communities with the people trapped within.  You don't consider that a massacre?  We have arsonists here, too, and probably more of them.  Perhaps those stories weren't newsworthy enough to reach AU television?

Don't underestimate the sense of community I mentioned earlier.  We are so over populated that it's all depersonalized.  Outcasts or social misfits, have no way back in for widespread social acceptance, and become more angry and disassociated.  Their "community" then becomes local gangs, mostly without any "elders" for morale guidance.  The government keeps telling its citizens and school children it is not our job to deal with these outcasts or "abnormals", and persecute if not prosecute those willing to step forward with corrective guidance or actions to intercede anti-social behavior.  I believe this is why there is a movement to criminalize gun owners by edict. It is a further means to neutralize and incapacitate the general populace.  It's going to get worse, I expect.  Any government's ultimate end goal is to subjugate its citizens.
Regardless, if you are part of a community, you get help from them, and you give help and guidance from within, sharing a moral code.  Our government AND population is now so large that more and more individuals slip through the cracks and get no guidance or help learning basic morality from either government, family unit, or community.  I believe this is the problem, not tool availability. 
There are plenty of tools out there for social misfits to run amok, and guns are not the worst of them.  I recall we had a woman with a Buick station wagon plow through a school yard full of children, a while back.  There are certainly other incidents.  Fortunately, the use of Molotov cocktails on/in restaurants, school buses, or office buildings has not yet been sensationalized.

Be well,


edit: 3:00 AM bleary math error.

« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 10:56:36 AM by TwoTired »
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Offline azuredesign

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2009, 04:18:55 AM »
in answser to seaweb,
yes I have been asaulted at knife point by four males, but not in Boston
.
My daughter was verbally abused in a  parking garage, then the guy parked and followed her into a busy mall and continued his verbosity. No one stepped in to help.

Late at night, walking to her car recently she was followed by some characters. Nothing happened, but it shook her up.

Happens. This is the new reality. It probably doesn't happen to people like you and me too often because we don't look vunerable.

If you are small, female and unknown in a neighborhood your chances of confrontation is high.
peace,
michel

Michel,

I'm bummed that you and your daughter have had those experiences. You implied in your initial post that your daughter would be moving to the Boston area, did these things happen to her there?

Kind regards,
Ben

Offline gregimotis

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2009, 08:47:19 AM »
Follow basic prevention behaviour is more likely to save your life than carry a knife or a gun

And this is why a person wanting some 'self defense' should take a self defense specific course of some kind.  Not a 'Karate' class, and not a tactical shooting class.  Weapons have their place (I am certainly not anti-gun) but what will get a person out of trouble most often with violence is the same thing that will get a person out of trouble most often with motorcycles:

Awareness and Avoidance.

TO continue with the motorcycle analogy, a three day self defense course might be likened to a motorcycle safety course:  the MSF won't make you a skilled cyclist, but it will make you aware of the skills you need to practice and start to establish the habits which keep you out of trouble in the first place.
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Offline 74cb750

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2009, 08:52:22 AM »
Ben,
yes these things happened in Boston area recently to my daughter, Newton and Roxbury.

I have found the people in Boston to be better behaved than in the past. Funny but when I tell people here in Vermont that Bostonians are better/kinder drivers than even 10 years ago, most people do not believe me. I no longer go into neighborhoods I am not familiar with.

peace,
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Offline lynchj

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2009, 09:15:31 AM »
Roxbury is NOT one of the places to be, especially late at night. Very rough neigborhood.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #57 on: March 10, 2009, 09:31:19 AM »
Ben,
yes these things happened in Boston area recently to my daughter, Newton and Roxbury.

I have found the people in Boston to be better behaved than in the past. Funny but when I tell people here in Vermont that Bostonians are better/kinder drivers than even 10 years ago, most people do not believe me. I no longer go into neighborhoods I am not familiar with.

peace,
michel
I am from NY. I do a lot of work in the Boston area. I am familiar with some of the areas you are talking about. They are not that bad. Now, is it rural or even urban Vermont no. It is a metro area and it has good parts and crappy parts. Her co workers will let her know quickly where to stay away from.

To our friend in Europe,Canada and the Pacific you will never understand the culture in the US and we will never understand yours completely.Let me say that our culture works for us. While the US culture is largely European, it evolved separately due to the unique circumstances of the times and distance from Eurpoe.

We were taught in School hat we must stand up for our rights, our heroes were dissidents, if we had lost the War, Washington and the rest would have been hung.

We Will not give up our beliefs for you, nor should we expect you to believe as we do.  

Peace out,

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Offline mick750F

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #58 on: March 10, 2009, 09:45:38 AM »
I will be returning to Boston soon and will have some pepper spray for my kid. Then I'll show her how to use it.

peace,
michel

Michel...You should know that MA law requires you to have an FID card to legally carry pepper spray. I've known women who carry it without getting the FID card but it was an informed decision on their part. As far as I'm concerned it's a silly requirement and I doubt that if someone used it in self defense without having the card would have legal problems but I thought you should know.

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salvatore13

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #59 on: March 10, 2009, 10:08:32 AM »

To our friend in Europe,Canada and the Pacific you will never understand the culture in the US and we will never understand yours completely.Let me say that our culture works for us. While the US culture is largely European, it evolved separately due to the unique circumstances of the times and distance from Eurpoe.

We were taught in School hat we must stand up for our rights, our heroes were dissidents, if we had lost the War, Washington and the rest would have been hung.

We Will not give up our beliefs for you, nor should we expect you to believe as we do.  

Peace out,

Bobby

Hello dear Bobby,

I think no one here want you to change your beliefs. Do you really think there are no political and economic interest in legalize weapons? Is not just a question of rights as rights can be defended in many ways that don´t imply to use guns. I think it's a lot more complex question than beliefs or culture. Of course in a society where everybody carries a gun I would like to have one. The problem is that a society without guns is possible (Europe, Australia, Pacific) and we are not robbed or rapped or killed more than you are. So what is the adventage of using a gun? I don´t see it. Honestly.
I don´t think why the opinion of using common sense or prevention is automatically translated by you in wanting to change your culture or beliefs. Do you really think yours is a culture of guns? That is so sad... Besides that, do you really think your beliefs are the American beliefs? I know lots of Americans that are against use of weapons.
I personally think that since we have police an security guards I must trust in them and in their job. Of course I can be robed or assaulted. That's the prize we have to pay for constructing such a sick society. See tv, movies, computer games... What are we giving to younger generations? Violence. And how we tell them to prevent? "Have a gun and protect yourself" Well, I admmit this is a way of doing things, but not the only one, and of course I think is not the best one.
What I don´t like is that you are not able to admit that there are things in your culture that can be better or at least different. If I critizise your society in that point I'm not critizising you, don't feel attacked please, I assure you is not my intention.
European culture has many many things that go wrong and I don´t bother if anyone tells me so.

It's just an opinion Bobby, nothing more than that. World is becoming more and more diverse everyday and if we don´t change with the world we will be hooked to the past. Let´s travel and share experiences with people all over the world, thus we will learn from other as well as teach others from our experience.

I wish you never had the necessity of using your guns. I pray for that.

Regards,
Salvatore.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 10:12:06 AM by salvatore13 »

Offline gregimotis

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #60 on: March 10, 2009, 11:18:07 AM »
I personally think that since we have police and security guards, I must trust in them and in their job.




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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #61 on: March 10, 2009, 12:18:48 PM »
I personally think that since we have police and security guards, I must trust in them and in their job.

The quintessential difference.
yes.

An assault happens minutes before authorities are even notified.  In this country, the police are not charged with protecting the individual.  Only the tax base population general.  Losing a few here and there isn't important to governments.  You are responsible for your own survival during the 10-30 minutes or hours before authorities find you important enough to help.

It's not the normal every day life experience that is of concern.  And, I agree that situational awareness, and avoidance are key elements of survival. It is during periods of disaster that you are really on you own.  An earthquake, tornato, hurricane, etc. can upset enough infrastructure to make police and security forces focus on politicians and government officials first and the lowly citizen much later.  You probably saw how the local governments treated the citizens of New Orleans, after that disaster.  And every such occurrance before that showed the same general treatment pattern. No government officials had to fear roving gangs of looters/bullies/killers.  The police first establish a small perimeter of control, and gradually expand that out to former jurisdictional boundaries.  You get protection, only if you are well connected or near someone who is.  Otherwise, it's just attacker vs you, and pray your arm or leg wasn't broken at the time of the disaster.  An ambulance likely won't be here for quite a awhile, and then only after the police have conquered the vicinity.  With a gun, your chances of survival are far greater during that time period. 

In the US, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (including survival) is an individual right.  (at least it started out that way)
In other governments, individual rights are meted out by government officials on an "as needed" basis, where the need is determined by the government in power.  Mr. mayor's broken finger, is far more important than your daughter's crushed leg, where do you think the first available ambulance will be directed?

Regards,
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salvatore13

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #62 on: March 10, 2009, 01:17:21 PM »
If sometime I get to consider my everyday life in terms of "survival" I would seriously consider the possibility of movin to some other place where living could not be a matter of survival. And of course I would take my family with me and then I would try to convince my friends to do so.

Online ofreen

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #63 on: March 10, 2009, 01:38:50 PM »
If sometime I get to consider my everyday life in terms of "survival" I would seriously consider the possibility of movin to some other place where living could not be a matter of survival. And of course I would take my family with me and then I would try to convince my friends to do so.

I think maybe you are confusing the mindset of being prepared with living in fear.  You can be prepared for eventualities without necessarily being in fear.  See my facetious remark about fire extinguishers back a few posts.  I actually have fire extinguishers around just in case, but I don't dwell on the possibility of or live in fear of a house fire.
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2009, 02:39:48 PM »
If sometime I get to consider my everyday life in terms of "survival" I would seriously consider the possibility of movin to some other place where living could not be a matter of survival. And of course I would take my family with me and then I would try to convince my friends to do so.

Ah, well if we are going to posture in this way...  I wish you well in your Utopia, real or imagined.  ;D

I implore you never to take up flying, as your training will force you to deal with the worst that can happen, as you and your passenger's survival depends on dealing with the worst
Of course military service is out of the question, as is law enforcement, mining, health care, or myriad other vocations that contribute to society's well being, that must consider "survival" in everyday life.

I'm pessimistic enough to realize I will never experience Utopia within my lifetime, except as a concept.  So, I prepare for the worst as others throughout the world also recognize as pertinent.

"Chance favors the prepared." -Louis Pasteur , French

"Expect the best, Prepare for the worst."  -Muhammad Ali Jinnah , Pakistani

"Whenever I prepare for a journey I prepare as though for death. Should I never return, all is in order." - Katherine Mansfield, New Zealander.

"Be Prepared... the meaning of the motto is that a scout must prepare himself by previous thinking out and practicing how to act on any accident or emergency so that he is never taken by surprise." -
Robert Baden-Powell, English

"You cannot prepare enough for anything." - James Galway, Irish

"Prepare for death, if here at night you roam, and sign your will before you sup from home." - Samuel Johnson, English

"This is the precept by which I have lived: Prepare for the worst; expect the best; and take what comes." - Hannah Arendt, German

"Let him who desires peace prepare for war." - Flavius Renatus Vegetius, Roman

"It is thrifty to prepare today for the wants of tomorrow." - Aesop, Greek

"In situations of military conflict, civil strife, lawlessness, bad governance, and human rights violations, terrorists find it easier to hide, train and prepare their attacks." - Gijs de Vries , Dutch

I saved a few of the American quotes for last:
"Most people have the will to win, few have the will to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

"It is my contention that most people are not mugged every day, that most people in this world do not encounter violence every day. I think we prepare people for violence, and I think just as importantly we prepare people for the definition of being gentle." - Bob Keeshan

"What I do is prepare myself until I know I can do what I have to do." - Joe Namath

This last one I post just 'cause I found it accidentally and though it darned funny:
"Conservatives saw the savagery of 9/11 in the attacks and prepared for war; liberals saw the savagery of the 9/11 attacks and wanted to prepare indictments and offer therapy and understanding for our attackers." - Karl Rove

Lot's more quotes here, if you wish perusal:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/prepare.html

Cheers,  ;D
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Offline mick750F

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #65 on: March 10, 2009, 03:54:14 PM »
   Wow! TT quotes Captain Kangaroo!

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #66 on: March 10, 2009, 03:56:44 PM »
TwoTired, I have to say that your comments and ability to defend your beliefs have earned you my utmost respect! You have remained focused on the issues and have used facts and documented cases to counter the liberal uneducated banter of those who seek to take away our rights as free americans. You are always welcome in my camp!
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Markcb750

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #67 on: March 10, 2009, 04:02:31 PM »
"liberal uneducated banter"     :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D



The most educated people I have ever encountered understood we are all in this together.

Just saying.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2009, 04:04:32 PM by Markcb750 »

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #68 on: March 10, 2009, 04:51:35 PM »
AK cafe, you are the uneducated one, what a stupid statement, can't think of anything yourself eh.!! That comes under the "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull#$%*" theory, don't be too quick to "label" anyone that doesn't agree with your beliefs. If you knew me you would definitely not call me "conservative" {actually thats quite funny}, if i was to turn up at a conservative function i would probably have an exorcism performed on me...{or get shot  ;)}.   No offense TT but you are sounding very much like a politician at this point. The very article that i quoted out of earlier basically said the "use of statistics" never gives you the whole story and are usually calculated against a lower statistic from a previous year and is a direct comparison against that only. For example, if we had 3 more gun deaths in my state this year the rate of gun deaths would be up 75%, as a statistic that looks terrible but in reality it is nothing at all. Having probably the most active gun lobby in the western world you will have plenty of fodder to quote from, some true and some highly exaggerated, while we are having this discussion you need to realize that these beliefs are considered outdated by most if not all the rest of the western society. I completely understand the fact that you will defend this completely and i applaud you for this but you need to take into account the way this comes across to the rest of the world {as we are a worldwide forum} as this is not the norm for us. You mention at one stage about our "freedom" maybe you should jump on a plane and come out for a visit while your dollar is nearly double ours, we are a very easy going "free" society and welcome everyone else' s views with open arms.....but that does not mean that we must agree with them....to each his own....
One last word from me on this subject, i would defend my freedom and my family to the death as i would expect anyone else to do so.... peace and good will.

Mick
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #69 on: March 10, 2009, 05:04:23 PM »
   Wow! TT quotes Captain Kangaroo!

Mike

That man helped shape a LOT of young minds.  Only slightly more contemporary than Aesop.

 ;D ;D
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billybobobrain

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #70 on: March 10, 2009, 05:31:37 PM »
Personally I'm not waiting around for the police to save my life in an incident that takes less then thirty seconds, I guarantee that a cop will show up if I bust a cap in someone. Then they can look at the evidence and determine if I acted accordingly. I have a wife and six kids at home, they cannot afford, both financially and emotionally to have no daddy, and I will be dammed if some punk kid who thinks drugs, or whatever is more important then my life. I will defend my life by taking theres. Period.

Trust the cops who now torture people for non compliance, hell no.

how many time's?

Why?

Why?

Wait around for these doughnut eating imbeciles to save me when it counts? Why.

I pitty the fool who thinks I'm an easy target!

AK Cafe

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #71 on: March 10, 2009, 05:47:07 PM »
AK cafe, you are the uneducated one, what a stupid statement, can't think of anything yourself eh.!!

RR, You are absolutely correct! I am the uneducated one here! I was complimenting TT on his knowledge and willingness to debate someone openly about the issues that are important to him, and to do so in a fair and professional manner. Little did I know that I was blatently bashing you personally and calling you an "uneducated conservative". You are absolutely right! I am unable to come up with any origional thoughts on my own and must rely on others to do my arguing for me. Up till now I had no idea I was so dumb! Thank you for opening my eyes to my own ignorance. I can sleep better now knowing just where I stand.

I really want to lash out at RR right now and say something about his heritage, but being the uneducated oaf that I am, I will refrain.

TT, I still stand by my earlier statement, If your ever up in Alaska, look me up.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #72 on: March 10, 2009, 05:48:11 PM »

To our friend in Europe,Canada and the Pacific you will never understand the culture in the US and we will never understand yours completely.Let me say that our culture works for us. While the US culture is largely European, it evolved separately due to the unique circumstances of the times and distance from Eurpoe.

We were taught in School hat we must stand up for our rights, our heroes were dissidents, if we had lost the War, Washington and the rest would have been hung.

We Will not give up our beliefs for you, nor should we expect you to believe as we do.  

Peace out,

Bobby

Hello dear Bobby,

I think no one here want you to change your beliefs. Do you really think there are no political and economic interest in legalize weapons? Is not just a question of rights as rights can be defended in many ways that don´t imply to use guns. I think it's a lot more complex question than beliefs or culture. Of course in a society where everybody carries a gun I would like to have one. The problem is that a society without guns is possible (Europe, Australia, Pacific) and we are not robbed or rapped or killed more than you are. So what is the adventage of using a gun? I don´t see it. Honestly.
I don´t think why the opinion of using common sense or prevention is automatically translated by you in wanting to change your culture or beliefs. Do you really think yours is a culture of guns? That is so sad... Besides that, do you really think your beliefs are the American beliefs? I know lots of Americans that are against use of weapons.
I personally think that since we have police an security guards I must trust in them and in their job. Of course I can be robed or assaulted. That's the prize we have to pay for constructing such a sick society. See tv, movies, computer games... What are we giving to younger generations? Violence. And how we tell them to prevent? "Have a gun and protect yourself" Well, I admmit this is a way of doing things, but not the only one, and of course I think is not the best one.
What I don´t like is that you are not able to admit that there are things in your culture that can be better or at least different. If I critizise your society in that point I'm not critizising you, don't feel attacked please, I assure you is not my intention.
European culture has many many things that go wrong and I don´t bother if anyone tells me so.

It's just an opinion Bobby, nothing more than that. World is becoming more and more diverse everyday and if we don´t change with the world we will be hooked to the past. Let´s travel and share experiences with people all over the world, thus we will learn from other as well as teach others from our experience.

I wish you never had the necessity of using your guns. I pray for that.

Regards,
Salvatore.

Salvatore ,

I do not think I articulated my position very well. We have a Constitution of which the first 10 amendments are known as the Bill of Rights. Unlike earlier documents in which the Government grants right to the people. Our Constitution and the Bill of Rights protect the people from the governments.
Our belief is that you cannot give up one single right, nor can you pick and choose these parts of the Constitution you like and disregard the others. You take the whole document. Those are my beliefs and most Americans share those basic beliefs. They can be against the use of weapons; I am against the use of weapons unless there is no alternative. They can also support the Constitution. It is all our rights.
Is the US such a dangerous place that we all walk around armed. No, it is not. I travel around at will, and my biggest concern is a car breakdown or accident due to the cost.
I was a full and part time Police Officer for 20 years; unfortunately you are usually called after the fact, since you cannot be everywhere. I had never fired my weapon on duty or off. I also have an unrestricted Pistol Permit and other than occasional trips to the firing range, they never leave the house. One of them was made in Spain.
There is no conspiracy by the gun manufacturers, most of their sales go to Military both
Here and overseas.
I thank you for the response and you do make some very good points about making the World better. I wish there were more that believed as you do. Taking a life is not an easy thing.  Sadly, too many do not feel that way, and these are the people that need to be dealt with force.

Peace and Love,

Bobby
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #73 on: March 10, 2009, 05:55:51 PM »
Captain Kangaroo was also a United States Marine! Simper Fi!
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Re: Protection in the city
« Reply #74 on: March 10, 2009, 06:10:18 PM »
AK, after re reading your post i must add that i thought you were referring to the 2 of us that see things differently and not the mindless do gooders you obviously referred too. I humbly apologise for directing my tirade at you...
PS ...i am not from convict stock, my dad immigrated from England in the Fifties and my heritage is traceable back to medieval England as farmers.... ;)

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