Author Topic: Gun control (The official gun thread!)  (Read 37264 times)

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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #425 on: April 14, 2014, 08:48:47 am »



Hitler's Germany and pre 1989 Czechoslovakia was also very safe.

Yikes :o...having a hard time believing you typed that.  I think some might disagree.

[/quote]

That is a textbook example of American's misunderstanding of Hitler and similar dictatorship's in Europe in his days - such as Mussolini.  They did not get the nation's support by publicly announcing: we will kill all Jews and the whole opposition.   The beginning was very agreeable to the average Herr Schmidt or Frau Miller.  They locked up and punished criminals, gypsies, bums and homeless people, also gays, they made things work better - like the railway in Italy - and introduced a vast number of popular and to the average citizen appealing programs.   Here are some:

 Hitler and the Nazis called for reining in German financial institutions, job creation, making the fat cats pay their fair share and for increased spending on social welfare programs.

The Nazi Party also won friends and influenced people by community organizing. They ran soup kitchens, promoted youth programs and championed the 99% in issues like landlord tenant relations, particularly in their main base of Munich.

Adolf Hitler in power enacted a number of important reforms and institute his progressive program without being impeded by a set-in-stone constitution or partisan bickering. He promised Germans a new society and his word for this was 'volksgemeinschaft', a 'people's community.'

Hitler and Nazis ended labor abuses and a number of strikes plaguing Germany by creating the German Labor Front as an umbrella organization to represent all workers, administrators, and company owners. He banned strikes, firings without government approval and lockouts. This ensured that government would be the ultimate protector of worker's rights and the arbitrator of all labor disputes, something American labor leaders like Richard Trumka and Jimmy Hoffa Jr. have been advocating for years.

Farmers received subsidies and guaranteed prices for their crops in exchange for increased government supervision over what they grew and how they did it, and were given loans for tools, livestock and seed, as well as  labor to work their farms by the state if needed.

While Hitler recognized the sanctity of private property, he also was emphatic that the government should have the power to regulate the use of private property for the good of the nation since it had been acquired with the help and use of public personnel and infrastructure - aka, you did not build this.

At Hitler's direction his finance minister Hjalmar Schacht instituted Keynesnian policies with large deficits and and low interest rates combined with stimulus programs of pubic works to reduce unemployment. Hitler also mandated price freezes to prevent a recurrence of inflation. He started numerous public sector programs that actually got built, including the construction of dams, the autobahns, railroads, and public buildings as well as a military build up that later superseded the public works policies while maintaining high employment and job creation.

Hitler and the Nazis also were very involved in picking winners and losers among Germany's corporate and manufacturing concerns, swapping preferential treatment,government contracts and loans  and policies that benefited specific well connected and supportive companies in exchange  for political and financial support for Hitler and his policies.In essence, Hitler made sectors of German business his partners in building the Third Reich while suppressing other, non-supportive players..certainly a tactic we've seen used recently with great success.

Hitler revamped Germany's healthcare system and made it truly universal as well as state subsidized.Hitler and the Nazis considered healthcare to be the right of all Germans, and there were numerous public-health campaigns in Nazi Germany urging healthy eating and exercise, and even no smoking campaigns at a time when cigarettes and cigars were being puffed with abandon worldwide.

Hitler enacted strong environmentalist legislation, such as the 1935 "Reich Nature Protection Act" which sought to control air and water pollution, reduce the use of coal and promote forest management and preservation.

.. all that led to the situation, that I summarized in simple statement: Hitler's Germany was also considered very safe.  And it was, unlike random and chaotic process in Soviet Russia - if you read Solzenicyn's Gulag, you know what I am talking about - Hitler's Germany pampered and took care of the workers and middle class, while the price for it was personal freedom of everybody and destruction of other races and groups that did not fit the vision of the future Germany.

Offline calj737

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #426 on: April 14, 2014, 03:44:31 pm »
Its scary how quickly we forget modern history. And the tides that loom to repeat it-
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Offline demon78

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #427 on: May 20, 2014, 12:12:17 pm »
Just read the last few posts and I know that I should keep my mouth closed,,, but
Bobby makes the point the Americans like to be left alone, agreed, but so do Canadians and it seems that Americans don't like Canadians to have a viewpoint that may be different than theirs, so I guess in North America we should have that big fence to keep out the "wetbacks" my feelings though if we have the fence we should have an electronic fence to keep out "electronic wetbacks" as well, I know, I know, that's not fair (it would affect commerce) but my point is the world is smaller than it used to be and now we are all in each others hip pockets.
Guns, fine keep them in the states, not here, we'll sort our own way through.
Bill the demon.
PS this is only my maunderings delete as needed.
 

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #428 on: May 20, 2014, 06:23:29 pm »
Just read the last few posts and I know that I should keep my mouth closed,,, but
Bobby makes the point the Americans like to be left alone, agreed, but so do Canadians and it seems that Americans don't like Canadians to have a viewpoint that may be different than theirs, so I guess in North America we should have that big fence to keep out the "wetbacks" my feelings though if we have the fence we should have an electronic fence to keep out "electronic wetbacks" as well, I know, I know, that's not fair (it would affect commerce) but my point is the world is smaller than it used to be and now we are all in each others hip pockets.
Guns, fine keep them in the states, not here, we'll sort our own way through.
Bill the demon.
PS this is only my maunderings delete as needed.

I am not sure a fence is in order, but I spent some time in Canada and felt very comfortable. Canada is a sovereign nation that has every right to have it's own laws and customs.  From my time in Canada I get the impression the U.S. can be a difficult neighbor.

Sorry Bill,  the World will not turn backwards for any of us. We can only make the best of the situation we find ourselves.   
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Offline demon78

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #429 on: May 20, 2014, 08:41:28 pm »
I know Bobby, sorry it was a grumpy day, when I have grumpy day not much good (intelligent/enlightenment what ever) comes out of the demon. At this stage and age of the game if it's not enlightenment it's BS.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #430 on: January 27, 2015, 10:23:10 am »
Better social welfare system should (in theory) reduce the need of guns for protection (and attack or money collector). Free education, medical, help, hospital  dentist disharge etc. etc. as we have in Sweden. (But we import a lot of chriminals that use weapons from problematic countries/religions...)
Then we can talk about real democracy. People from poor families will never have a chance otherwise, easy to choose the crimimal way. The richest people do not pay much in tax, right?

My theory is that there are many companies, people that make money on the bad situation so they will work hard for not having a basic welfare system for all citizens. The gun industry will loose a lot of money.....

Weapons for recreation as hunting must be OK. I think its difficult to change the situation. I understand people having guns for safety.
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Offline supersports400

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #431 on: January 27, 2015, 11:58:37 am »
Hi,

Living in the Netherlands, occupied by the Germans from 1940 to 1945, I fully agree with the text of 70CB750.
The situation was different IN occupied country's, but the amount of guns in public hands wouldn't not have made a lot of difference.

Jensen

« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 12:04:19 pm by jensen »

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #432 on: January 27, 2015, 02:09:26 pm »
Hi,

Living in the Netherlands, occupied by the Germans from 1940 to 1945, I fully agree with the text of 70CB750.
The situation was different IN occupied country's, but the amount of guns in public hands wouldn't not have made a lot of difference.

Jensen
I suggest you do some reading on the Warsaw uprising. The partisans held the German Army at bay for 63 days. Yes they finally lost, but they went down fighting. Never underestimate the ability of the citizenry to harass and confound even the best equipped Army. 
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But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #433 on: January 27, 2015, 02:16:00 pm »
Not just Warsaw, partisans in Yugoslavia forced Germans to maintain there more divisions than in the rest of Western Europe.

Also is worse to note, that Russians waited outside Warsaw till Germans cleared polish resistance out - and germans used soldiers of general Vlasov to fight them, one of the darker chapters of already dark times.

Also Slovak uprising was noticable in about the same time, they redeemed themselves for being a fascist state.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #434 on: January 27, 2015, 02:40:12 pm »
I rest my case. An armed population is very hard to counter.
Dedicated to Sgt. Howard Bruckner 1950 - 1969. KIA LONG KHANH.

But we were boys, and boys will be boys, and so they will. To us, everything was dangerous, but what of that? Had we not been made to live forever?

Offline supersports400

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #435 on: January 27, 2015, 11:52:21 pm »
Our government gave the Netherlands away after the Germans bombed Rotterdam, I don't think the amount of weapons would have changed that.
The German Blitzkrieg was very effective against our naive government and Royal family (half dutch half German), who fled away instantly, leaving the Dutch behind.
Our local Government helped the Germans to locate and track down Jews, our traincompany NS was paid 2,5 million Euro by the Germans to transport the Jews to the border.

My point is that I agree that citizens should have guns to defend the country because history tells me that our Government / Army, when it gets really nasty, won't do where they are paid for.

Offline flatlander

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #436 on: January 28, 2015, 12:10:22 am »
i didn't want to get involved here but this is a nice example:

the principles you guys mention here are actually applied in switzerland where i lived for about 2 years and have friends there. they have a trained and armed citizen-army. every man has to to do basic training and every year they get a refresher. they keep their weapons in their homes (well rifles etc, not heavy stuff like tanks of course).

nobody ever thought of invading switzerland, not even hitler for whom it would have been a short walk across the border. with the terrain they have and virtually everyone turning into a guerilla fighter it would turn into nightmare.

at the same time, gun crime is incredibly low in switzerland. don't ask me why but it is.

 

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