Poll

How far should gun control go?

I like were it is now.
Gun control is for wimps and communists.
Only cops and criminals should own a gun.
Guns are safe as long as you know how to use them.
No one should have one.
Obama can save us all.

Author Topic: Gun control (The official gun thread!)  (Read 66695 times)

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #75 on: May 17, 2009, 03:04:42 PM »
No struggle at all, Terry.  I just googled "rape statistics by country" and used the first link that came up.  AUSTRALIA HAS NEARLY THREE TIMES MORE RAPES PER PERSON than the United States.  Yes, an AUSTRALIAN WOMAN IS THREE TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED THAN AN AMERICAN WOMAN.  What the hell is wrong with you people?

At least the British did better than the Australians, with a UK woman only a little more than 2.25 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED than an American woman.

Amazing.  HOLY CRAP, in fact.

If I were an Australian woman, I wouldn't leave the damn house without my gun!!!

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims

Not surprisingly, rape statistics for the US are significantly better than many other nations with more stringent gun controls, including Australia, Sweden, Finland, the UK, Canada, and even France:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_vic-crime-rape-victims

Perhaps potential rapists are more concerned about getting their balls blown off in the US?

Ha ha, geez you must have been struggling to find a statistic where Australia actually surpassed the US in a particular crime Ed, so well done! While you concentrated on your 95000 rapes compared to our 15000, I see (using your source) you didn't mention your 16000 murders compared to our 300. Oh well, not enough to take away the US's "Most violent developed country" tag, but better than nothing, I suppose. Cheers, Terry. ;D

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #76 on: May 17, 2009, 05:48:38 PM »
Once again statistics are misleading, after doing a pile of searches, every one i saw was different and most said America was the worst and also in the US
Quote
The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even
lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.
.  So it looks like also the US has one of the lowest rates of reporting these crimes. Quoting statistics never tells the whole story, and wasn't this thread about Guns, not rape? More Stats.
Quote
International Crime Survey collected data from fourteen countries in North America, Europe, and Australia. They found that 2.3 percent of women in the United States reported sexual assault (including rape and attempted rape), the highest percentage of any of the fourteen countries. Canada and Australia followed with 1.7 percent and 1.6 percent, respectively
 
It would help if you didn't just copy the stats that suit your argument, it took one search to throw doubt on your claims.

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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2009, 06:18:04 PM »
Sorry, but I'm gonna stick with the statistics reported by the United Nations that I quoted above.

Besides, if a large percentage of American women don't report, then who is to say that any larger percentage of australians report?

Yes, this is a thread about gun control, and how stupid it is.  If guns prevent crime, and protect women from rapists, then rape statistics certainly are relevant.

Once again statistics are misleading, after doing a pile of searches, every one i saw was different and most said America was the worst and also in the US
Quote
The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even
lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.
.  So it looks like also the US has one of the lowest rates of reporting these crimes. Quoting statistics never tells the whole story, and wasn't this thread about Guns, not rape? More Stats.
Quote
International Crime Survey collected data from fourteen countries in North America, Europe, and Australia. They found that 2.3 percent of women in the United States reported sexual assault (including rape and attempted rape), the highest percentage of any of the fourteen countries. Canada and Australia followed with 1.7 percent and 1.6 percent, respectively
 
It would help if you didn't just copy the stats that suit your argument, it took one search to throw doubt on your claims.

Mick

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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2009, 08:40:24 PM »
Quote
Sorry, but I'm gonna stick with the statistics reported by the United Nations that I quoted above.
Only because it suits your purpose, actually one of the sites i quoted from was from the UN. Australian women are considered more likely to report sexual abuse because our society differs greatly from yours. We are lucky to have a lot less censorship and religion ruling our society and because of that we are a more open and accepting society, anyway i have wasted enough breath on this.
Quote
Yes, this is a thread about gun control, and how stupid it is

 "you are what you eat" is the problem here, you lot have had these guns in your lives for so long you feel you can't live without them, next time you have a massacre, and it won't be long, feel free to compare it to our rape stats as a diversionary tactic to once again to cover the FACT that the more weapons in your society the more gun crime you will have, guns don't fix the problem, they are the problem, especially fully automatic weapons. I like the fact that when a car back fires in our street, no one ducks for cover....... I think its all about the mentality of the people as a whole, Aussies are generally, although we have a lot in common, completely different people.

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2009, 10:20:23 PM »
they are the problem, especially fully automatic weapons.

So, is it your contention we should pass a new law to restrict fully automatic weapons from the general populace?
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2009, 10:54:29 PM »
Can you find any "stats" on a  "1" gun preventing a rape?

I'm sure you will be on Google for a bit, I'll come back later ;D

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #81 on: May 18, 2009, 12:45:19 AM »
Can you find any "stats" on a  "1" gun preventing a rape?

Interesting how you specify your request.  If a gun prevented a rape, it wouldn't be reported as a rape now would it?   And, that's a real pitfall of stats collecting.  Guns used in a crime are statistically gathered.  Guns used to prevent crime are not collected by government officials, as there is no crime associated with it, even if the incident is otherwise reported.

However, from your baiting question, I supposed you assume that it is not a reasonable assumption that a gun can prevent a rape (or other crime, for that matter). 
Here are some accounts for your enjoyment:

"My Eyewitness News, Memphis, TN, 2/21/2008
A convicted sex offender was shot and killed after he broke into a Tennessee home, intending to rape two young sisters inside. The younger sister escaped after being tied up and ran to her aunt’s house next door for help. The sisters’ cousin, a Right-to-Carry permit holder, shot the intruder after the intruder attacked him."

"Southern Sentinel,   Ripley  ,  Miss.   ,  8/11/04
When an 88-year-old Ripley , Miss. , woman opened her door to a stranger asking for help, the man proceeded to force his way into her home, rape and rob her. The woman managed to escape from her attacker, however, and retrieve her handgun. She fired three shots that sent the rapist fleeing. After she provided a clear description of the man, police immediately identified a known suspect and soon made an arrest. When they found the suspect, he was bleeding from a gunshot wound under his arm."

"  Newsday  ,  New York   ,   New York   ,  11/22/03
A Freeport , New York , woman has her boyfriend and his brother to thank for rescuing her from a rapist. First Squad Det. Lt. Andrew Fal of Nassau , New York , reported that the suspect was believed to have been hiding in the basement of the home for some time. When the woman's boyfriend left for work, the intruder hid his face with a surgical mask and went upstairs. He attacked the woman in her bedroom, punching her repeatedly in the face, and then tried to rape her. The boyfriend's brother, who also lives in the home, heard the commotion and thought his brother was having a fight with his girlfriend. He called the brother on his cell phone to see what was going on, and when his brother told him he was driving to work, the two realized the woman was in real trouble. The brother called the police and retrieved a 9mm pistol. The woman's boyfriend returned to the house where he and his brother confronted her attacker, holding him at gunpoint until authorities arrived and placed her attacker under arrest."

"The News,   Buffalo  ,  NY   ,  1/25/93
The fact that he was recovering from a stab wound suffered in an assault the day before didn't keep Roderick McGill from preventing a rape outside his Buffalo , N.Y. , home. Hearing the gagged woman's cries, McGill had his girlfriend call police and grabbed his shotgun. Outside, he confronted the would-be rapist as he attempted to strip his victim and held him for police."

"The Herald,   Sanford  ,  NC   ,  6/13/97
Sherry Rives, of Bear Creek , North Carolina , emerged from her shower to see a knife-wielding man coming towards her. When he threatened to rape her, she ran into her bedroom and got her 9 mm pistol. The two wrestled for the pistol and Rives was wounded in the thigh. She then gained control of the pistol and shot her tormentor several times, forcing him to flee. She then locked herself in the bathroom and called police. When police arrived, they found the would-be rapist dead with four bullet wounds to the chest. The woman's father said she kept the pistol in the house for protection and she knew how to use it."

"The Record Searchlight,   Redding  ,  CA   ,  7/28/95
Police believe the man who abducted a Shasta County, California, woman at knife point and forced her to drive her vehicle to a remote location may have been intending to sexually assault her. Instead, when the scruffy would-be rapist stepped from the car for a moment, the woman retrieved a pistol and shot at the man, who fled into the darkness."

"The Record,   Stockton  ,  CA   ,  2/18/95
A Stockton , California , real estate agent put an end to an attempted rape, after a man posing as a potential home buyer attacked her in a model home. Crumpling to the floor, the realtor drew a .380 from her purse, forcing the man to flee. Pursuing him outside, the woman fired several shots at the man, missing him as he jumped in his car. She halted his escape by shooting out one of his tires and with the help of some nearby construction workers, held the thug for police. The would-be rapist is being investigated in connection with a similar 1993 attack on a female real estate agent."

"The Courant,   Hartford  ,  CT   ,  1/6/95
A would-be rapist started the year off on the wrong foot when he attempted to rape an armed West Hartford , Connecticut , woman as she walked home early on New Year's Day. Dragging the woman into the bushes, pinning her to the ground, and forcibly removing part of her clothing, the attacker refused to heed the woman's words when she tried to reason with him to stop. Her licensed derringer did what words failed to. A single gunshot wound to the chest ended the attack as the man staggered into the road and collapsed. He died later in a hospital. The woman was not charged in the incident."

"Gazette,   Texarkana  ,  TX   ,  11/3/94
What police called "fatal attraction" cost a 15-year-old boy his life. Obsessed with a neighborhood woman, he allegedly broke into her Broken Bow, Oklahoma , home three times in a week, once raping the mother of two at knife-point. But when he entered the home the final time carrying a stolen handgun, a pair of handcuffs and a ski mask, the youth encountered two armed men guarding the home in the family's absence. Police said the unidentified citizen who killed the alleged rapist "had no choice.""

"The Herald Argus, LaPorte, IN,  7/14/94
"I probably wouldn't have gone out there without a gun," says John Gutt of Union Mills, Indiana. Gutt heard two bloodcurdling screams in the early morning outside his rural home. While his daughter called 911, he armed himself and went to investigate, clad only in sweatpants. When he heard another scream and a woman's voice saying, "He's got a gun," Gutt followed the voice to a field, where he found a man on top of a partially clad woman. The would-be rapist ran off, and Gutt escorted the woman to his home. Once police arrived, he helped hunt down the culprit. Gutt later received a public service award for his actions."

"The News-Leader,   Springfield  ,  MO   ,  3/21/94
Uneasy after a man asked to use her phone, a Springfield , Missouri , woman told him to use one at a local convenience store. Suspicious, she got a pistol and put it nearby. A little later, expecting guests, she unlocked her front door, and the stranger entered. He threatened her with a knfie and forced her to undress, but she was able to get her gun by claiming she had to use the bathroom. She was then able to fire at the would-be rapist, wounding him. He fled, but was quickly apprehended."



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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #82 on: May 18, 2009, 01:26:03 AM »
OK, so you don't like the United Nation's stats?  OK, then here are the same stats (with sources) from both the FBI and the Australian Institute of Criminology.  These stats prove that Australians are 2.76 TIMES MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED THAN AMERICANS.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this, as the proof is here, as provided by both the US and Australian governments:

RAPE STATISTICS 2005

United States
2005 population: approx. 290,000,000
93,934 rapes
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

Australia
2005 population: 20,328,600
18,172 rapes
http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/facts/2006/01_recorded_crime.html

Even if you go by the claims that Americans don't always report and Australians always do, then you would have to believe that more than 2/3 of all rapes in America go unreported in order for the US to catch up to Australia.  Sorry, but that is simply ridiculous.
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #83 on: May 18, 2009, 01:33:18 AM »
I stand corrected, guns are required in the US.

WoW!

In the United States, 1.3 women are raped every minute. That results in 78 rapes each hour, 1872 rapes each day, 56160 rapes each month and 683,280 rapes each year.
1 out of every 3 American women will be sexually assulted in her lifetime.
The United States has the world's highest rape rate of the countries that publish such statistics. It's 4 times higher than Germany, 13 times higher than England, and 20 times higher than Japan.
1 in 7 women will be raped by her husband.
83% of rape cases are ages 24 or under.
1 in 4 college women have either been raped or suffered attempted rape.
1 in 12 males students surveyed had commited acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had commited such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape.
75% of male students and 55% of female students involved in acquintance rape had been drinking or using drugs.
Only 16% of rapes are ever reported to the police

Lets get back to guns now ;D

Offline cudjo

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #84 on: May 18, 2009, 06:29:45 AM »
we should get back to guns, but since we are here.
any thoughts on why america, or any of these countries have these rape problems?
I will say that I think that it is something that is going to happen sometimes just based on the nature of man (men).
but I would also say that here in the states we have a fairly sexually repressed culture, and I think that contributes a good deal to the sexual deviance.

Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2009, 10:30:09 AM »
we should get back to guns, but since we are here.
any thoughts on why america, or any of these countries have these rape problems?
I will say that I think that it is something that is going to happen sometimes just based on the nature of man (men).
but I would also say that here in the states we have a fairly sexually repressed culture, and I think that contributes a good deal to the sexual deviance.

Should we start a "Should prostitution be legal?" thread?   :D :D :D

Seriously though, prostitution is legal in Canada is it not?  And I don't see the Canads running amok.  Maybe it should be legal for consenting adults....
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2009, 04:58:03 PM »
Sexually repressed culture?   I'm not so sure about that.  Seems like all you have to do is turn on the TV or the radio, or look at the magazine covers on the newsstands and sex is right "in your face".

If you want a hooker of any variety -- including even a jail-bait transsexual who's into BDSM, just go on craigslist.  It makes no difference whether it is illegal, it is easy to find whatever you are looking for -- INSTANTLY.  If you are unclear of the acronyms, go look them up on urban dictionary.

Children of any age can log onto the internet and see images of all kinds of obscenity from bestiality to bondage, without any realistic legal or parental control.  In fact, they can even log onto craigslist and get themselves hookers if they have the cash, too.  Or they can even prostitute themselves if they want, with no way for anyone else to know.

Jeez, I'm surprised at you, cudjo, considering that you list your location as Brooklyn.  I grew up in the Bronx, and I know as well as the next guy that you can get **ANYTHING** in NYC for the right price.

Oh yeah, about guns: you can get an illegal handgun in NYC in about 5 minutes, too -- for the right price.  The only people who can't get handguns in NYC are those who don't want to break the law.

we should get back to guns, but since we are here.
any thoughts on why america, or any of these countries have these rape problems?
I will say that I think that it is something that is going to happen sometimes just based on the nature of man (men).
but I would also say that here in the states we have a fairly sexually repressed culture, and I think that contributes a good deal to the sexual deviance.
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Offline Frankencake

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #87 on: May 18, 2009, 06:01:41 PM »
You got a link for that BDSM Tranny?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #88 on: May 18, 2009, 06:29:06 PM »
You got a link for that BDSM Tranny?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just keep it outta the babe thread!   :D :D
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Offline edbikerii

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #89 on: May 18, 2009, 08:21:20 PM »
here you go.  get it while it's hot:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/ads/1172693173.html
Took no more than 1 minute to find him/her.  I'm sure you can offer a little more cash to get somebody at this TRANNY PARTY to spank you!

You got a link for that BDSM Tranny?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #90 on: May 18, 2009, 08:36:12 PM »
edbikerii , got any air miles I can have ;D

Offline seaweb11

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #91 on: May 18, 2009, 08:52:47 PM »
a link from another thread here.  ; ;D  http://privateofficernews.wordpress.com/2009/05/13/waffle-house-waitress-shoots-complaining-customer-www-privateofficer-com/

I guess if he had had a gun things would have gone better ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

How can you find which side of this absurdity to get behind on one side or the other?

Keep your guns, and have at er...................

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #92 on: May 18, 2009, 10:32:26 PM »
Yeah, Seaweb don't need no steenken guns. He just grabs those liquor store robbers with his bare hands. Witness.  ;)
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline seaweb11

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #93 on: May 18, 2009, 10:52:26 PM »
 ;D Man, I forgot all about that ;D

 Remember the off duty cop who just watched the guy leave, and didn't lift a finger to help until I dragged the guy back in by the scruff of his neck ::) ::)

.......and then they let him go........man if I had had a gun ;)

Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #94 on: June 04, 2009, 05:34:49 PM »
Most of you probably know I am no big gun enthusiast but here I am packing heat at an early age. Gotta protect what is mine. ;D

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #95 on: June 04, 2009, 07:24:43 PM »
You got a link for that BDSM Tranny?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Just keep it outta the babe thread!   :D :D
Thank you for that.
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Offline Frankencake

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #96 on: June 04, 2009, 07:33:08 PM »
Not a problem Bobby!
"Sure, if you don't want that bike in your backyard, I guess I'll take it."  "I'll probably just scrap it......"

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Offline jaknight

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #97 on: June 05, 2009, 02:54:49 AM »
Well,

Presidents, Vice Presidents, Senators, Congressmen, et. el., take an oath and swear to uphold the Constitution of The United States of America.

The Second Amendment is an integral component of the Constitution.

.....the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed....

Members in the aforementioned political offices who spend time in endeavors to dismantle and destroy the 2nd Amendment have publicly demonstrated their sense of honor, loyalty and dedication to sworn duty.

Political officials active in behavior disregarding their sworn duties and haven shown what composes their sense of loyalty and honor to their sworn duties, should be properly removed from their positions, which by nature, are positions of trust, honor, and duty.

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 08:54:32 PM by jaknight »
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Offline cudjo

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #98 on: June 05, 2009, 07:38:34 AM »
Sexually repressed culture?   I'm not so sure about that.  Seems like all you have to do is turn on the TV or the radio, or look at the magazine covers on the newsstands and sex is right "in your face".

If you want a hooker of any variety -- including even a jail-bait transsexual who's into BDSM, just go on craigslist.  It makes no difference whether it is illegal, it is easy to find whatever you are looking for -- INSTANTLY.  If you are unclear of the acronyms, go look them up on urban dictionary.

Children of any age can log onto the internet and see images of all kinds of obscenity from bestiality to bondage, without any realistic legal or parental control.  In fact, they can even log onto craigslist and get themselves hookers if they have the cash, too.  Or they can even prostitute themselves if they want, with no way for anyone else to know.

Jeez, I'm surprised at you, cudjo, considering that you list your location as Brooklyn.  I grew up in the Bronx, and I know as well as the next guy that you can get **ANYTHING** in NYC for the right price.

Oh yeah, about guns: you can get an illegal handgun in NYC in about 5 minutes, too -- for the right price.  The only people who can't get handguns in NYC are those who don't want to break the law.



there are over 10mil. people in this city on most days. there is no way that you can avoid having close to anything available.
but that does not speak to cultural repression, as much as it speaks to market forces.

what I am talking about is what makes the person look for these things?
is it because they were taught sexual ethics based on a very conservative catholic, christian (or on the case of NYC Christian/ Muslim/ Jewish...etc) dogma that does not jive with real sexual urges of the average human (man). or reconcile with the sex everywhere  media culture.
I am talking about the masses of people that were taught that sex was a bad thing outside of marriage, or out side of attempted procreation even in marriage.
and they bought it, and they came to believe that they had a problem. so they tried to bottle that part of them up, or repress the sexual urges.

this is seen most plainly in the catholic church's current issues.
young gay men in catholic families growing up in a life where they knew that they could not be open with who they were choosing to take up a profession (the priesthood)  where they would never be expected to marry or show interest in a woman.
only to find that they could not run from there sexuality. and then to be surrounded by temptation... in my opinion repression and temptation breeds deviancy.
repression temptation and violence breed violent deviancy. IMO

Offline bucky katt

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Re: Gun control (The official gun thread!)
« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2009, 06:41:11 PM »
gun control is being able to hit what you aim at
Of all God's creatures there is only one that cannot be made the slave of the lash. That one is the cat. If man could be crossed with the cat it would improve man, but it would deteriorate the cat.
Mark Twain - Notebook, 1894