Topic: Gun control (The official gun thread!)

[BeSeeingYou]

srust - I think you are correct about Minneapolis.  Prince said that he lived there because the cold keeps the bad people away.

We joke that our winters are for keeping the riff-raff out.  When there is 3 feet of snow and it's 15 degrees below who's interested in stealing a car or sticking up a grocery store.

[cudjo]

srust - I think you are correct about Minneapolis.  Prince said that he lived there because the cold keeps the bad people away.

We joke that our winters are for keeping the riff-raff out.  When there is 3 feet of snow and it's 15 degrees below who's interested in stealing a car or sticking up a grocery store.

its funny, I know a few crazy stories of people doing criminal Sh*t in the winters in WI, and upstate NY... if it were not for the looming danger of the act at hand, it would be pure comedy.

[seaweb11]

srust - I think you are correct about Minneapolis.  Prince said that he lived there because the cold keeps the bad people away.

We joke that our winters are for keeping the riff-raff out.  When there is 3 feet of snow and it's 15 degrees below who's interested in stealing a car or sticking up a grocery store.

My take on that is.............
If they get $11.00 in their pocket, they're not going to by a ferry ticket, they'll just go get high.  No Gun necessary   Just the ocean.

[BeSeeingYou]

srust - I think you are correct about Minneapolis.  Prince said that he lived there because the cold keeps the bad people away.

We joke that our winters are for keeping the riff-raff out.  When there is 3 feet of snow and it's 15 degrees below who's interested in stealing a car or sticking up a grocery store.

its funny, I know a few crazy stories of people doing criminal Sh*t in the winters in WI, and upstate NY... if it were not for the looming danger of the act at hand, it would be pure comedy.

Ok if it's winter in Wisconsin combined with stupid criminal tricks you can bet alcohol has to be involved.

[BeSeeingYou]

srust - I think you are correct about Minneapolis.  Prince said that he lived there because the cold keeps the bad people away.

We joke that our winters are for keeping the riff-raff out.  When there is 3 feet of snow and it's 15 degrees below who's interested in stealing a car or sticking up a grocery store.

My take on that is.............
If they get $11.00 in their pocket, they're not going to by a ferry ticket, they'll just go get high.  No Gun necessary   Just the ocean.

I finally looked up Gabriola Island to see exactly where it lies.  Looks nice.

[seaweb11]

It's Mayberry man
I only wish we had Andy as a sheriff instead of the RCMP rejects in need of some "quite time".  I actually saw one of them today photographing signs nailed to trees

Glad you checked us out
Spare room is always here for members.

[BobbyR]

actually, in alot of cities violent crime is down from it's high in the 70's i remember as a kid what a cesspool new york city was in the late 70's. nowhere near as safe then as it is today. i still wish i lived in a place where i didnt feel the need to walk around with a .45acp on my hip and sleep with it under my pillow. home invasions are break ins while homeowners are asleep happen with enough frequency here. my wife also carries, a pre-war walther ppk in .380. she keeps it in her purse at all times (where it's legal to carry)

I have a NY and Florida full carry permit. I rarely if ever carry. I do carry when I travel upstate and always in Florida. NYC is safer than most people think. The real rise in crime is in the rural areas where Meth is rampant.

[Terry in Australia]

Ya know, I've often thought that if the government gave away free drugs to addicts, it'd probably reduce a lot of that crime, I wonder why they don't?

And they could spike it so it made those oxygen thieves sterile, and they could add a few other chemicals to significantly reduce a users life-span while they were at it, so the end result is that they could reduce the amount of users and reduce the drug related crime, not to mention making it financially unviable for the drug cartels/mafia/biker gangs who profit enormously from their misery?

Oh well, just another "pie in the sky" theory from an amatuer philosopher I suppose, and of course in this time of economic uncertainty I'd hate to see cops and court staff lose their jobs because the crime rate's taken a nose dive..........

[BobbyR]

Ya know, I've often thought that if the government gave away free drugs to addicts, it'd probably reduce a lot of that crime, I wonder why they don't?

And they could spike it so it made those oxygen thieves sterile, and they could add a few other chemicals to significantly reduce a users life-span while they were at it, so the end result is that they could reduce the amount of users and reduce the drug related crime, not to mention making it financially unviable for the drug cartels/mafia/biker gangs who profit enormously from their misery?

Oh well, just another "pie in the sky" theory from an amatuer philosopher I suppose, and of course in this time of economic uncertainty I'd hate to see cops and court staff lose their jobs because the crime rate's taken a nose dive..........

The English has switched from their earlier system to the American system and it failed. They went back to their prescribing addict their drugs. Some empty headed American journalist interviewed the Minister of Health and said "what about rehabilitation" the Minister Sir Something or Other gave her that down your nose the posh Brits so so well and said "Madam rehabilitation is a farce, we are protecting the people in the streets". He is right.

If the Brits deported the Puritans to Guam or someplace else, we would be better off today.   

[J-T]

Guns are just as responsible for crime as pencils are for bad spelling.

[Terry in Australia]

Yep, I agree. Crack cocaine is not reponsible for drug addicted zombies, booze isn't responsible for domestic violence, and cigarettes aren't responsible for lung cancer. People are responsible for all those things, but the ready access to guns, drugs, booze and cigarettes just make it easy. Cheers, Terry.

[cudjo]

Yep, I agree. Crack cocaine is not reponsible for drug addicted zombies, booze isn't responsible for domestic violence, and cigarettes aren't responsible for lung cancer. People are responsible for all those things, but the ready access to guns, drugs, booze and cigarettes just make it easy. Cheers, Terry.

witch brings us to the true question...( or was it the original question)... should the government be to whatever degree involved with restricting our decisions, or should we be allowed free access to anything, and make the decisions ourselves?

[Inigo Montoya]

Total freedom becomes anarchy. In that case, all basic social services such as even roads, would fall apart. We need some governing to progress. I feel the US should go back to the original amendments and then reinsert the relevant ones. Obviously the prohibition amendment and the amendment repealing it should be removed as they are worthless. Obviously everyone should be allowed to vote and have equal rights. Guns do require some control. Not a ban by any means but I doubt most people need fully automatic rifles for every day use. Good training in the use and care of guns should be required AND updated every few years, same with cars. Tax laws need to be scrapped and rewritten to remove some of the loop holes.

You know what, by the time this is done, we would have a virtually new govt!

[TwoTired]

You know what, by the time this is done, we would have a virtually new govt!

Actually, we would have an old government!  It's the "new" government that is the problem. 

Personally, I would favor gun safety and use training in grade schools.
Remove the mystique
Share the knowledge
Share the skill.
Equate the understanding.  (Or, are some people more "equal" than others, I wonder?)

Four basic rules aren't that hard to understand.
1 - All guns are always loaded (unless you check it yourself, positively, each time you pick one up)
2 - Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot (this is the primary safety on any gun)
3 - Never let the muzzle cover anything that you do not wish to destroy.
4 - Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.  (Think over-penetration and poor accuracy)

Hollywood is the worst teacher of firearms knowledge/understanding.  Yet, it is the primary source of firearms knowledge for the common individual.  And news "shows" are most certainly included in the Hollywood teaching style (fiction presented as fact).

It's not just "Gun Control" the government is foisting on the populace, it is "knowledge control" as well.  It's just one part of the "Keep the people fat, dumb, and happy" prescription for keeping a government in power.  "You don't need to know how to safely use and operate a gun...unless "we" say it's ok."
Think about the irony, just in the US.  200 million guns in a population of 300 million.  But, it's not important that we know how to use them safely? 
That's "modern" government! (<<sarcastic alert!) 

[Inigo Montoya]

I suppose it could be considered the "old" government. the one we were meant to have.

[cudjo]

You know what, by the time this is done, we would have a virtually new govt!

Actually, we would have an old government!  It's the "new" government that is the problem. 

our old government is right, at least our forefathers attempt at government. our current oligarchy is no different than that of oligarchies past. our forefathers were aristocrats schooled in political history and strategy, and they chose to put measures in place that would limit the inherent corruption of the system. those measures turned out to be insufficient, by the time the nation really settled out, (circa 1970s) total corruption was nearly complete.

as for total freedom being anarchy, I don't believe that is true..... I am sure that if all rules and government were taken away there would be some time of anarchy, but over time culture would adjust to a stable level.... but that is a bit broader than i was going.

I was thinking more...if you take the government that you have, and make it more likely or less likely to effect your personal choices (drug use, gun ownership etc....) through laws. what would you choose, and why.

for the record I am for less restriction of personal choice... i think that with real choice comes responsibility, and that responsibility for yourself and others will teach you the way. if you do not take it seriously then you will either die or be in a bad place until you die.... and in death and life you are a lesson to all. That is how the system works.

I think that it is the attempt of regulation over what should be personal choice that puts us in a bad place.

people end up thinking that since everything is regulated, then if something is not regulated its OK, and then u are making decisions based on whether or not something is illegal rather then if it is wrong to you.... combine that with a judicial system is more of a system of loopholes and hypocrisy.

here we stand.

[sangyo soichiro]

Hollywood is the worst teacher of firearms knowledge/understanding. 

Amen. 
I cringe every time I see some dumb character using a gun as a hammer. 

[Inigo Montoya]

Well hollywood is a dumb teacher about almost everything.

[razor02097]

Well hollywood is a dumb teacher about almost everything.

+100


Movies arn't reality...  In real life a typical medium caliber gun will make your ears ring bad, recoil hurts, and whatever you hit is done for.

Guns are only as safe as the person using it.

http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp

[bucky katt]

Hollywood is the worst teacher of firearms knowledge/understanding.

Amen.  
I cringe every time I see some dumb character using a gun as a hammer.  

or holding the goddamned gun on it's SIDE WTFH is THAT? sorry, i was taught gun safety at an early age and i see nonsense like that and i go slightly nuts.  http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs1.htm   go to the second article. written by a man i have huge amounts of respect for, he's a writer for Handgunner magazine.

[razor02097]

Or spinning a loaded firearm.... a double action handgun  .... I saw that once at a firing range. I backed away and notified the range instructer, talk about pissed... didn't see the guy again.

[cudjo]

a friend sent me an email with this in it... I have not read the whole bill yet, but this guy usually sends pretty good info.

 Concerning the Blair-Holt proposed legislation: Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

[ofreen]

a friend sent me an email with this in it... I have not read the whole bill yet, but this guy usually sends pretty good info.

 Concerning the Blair-Holt proposed legislation: Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

Check out this link concerning that bill -

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5098

[cudjo]

a friend sent me an email with this in it... I have not read the whole bill yet, but this guy usually sends pretty good info.

 Concerning the Blair-Holt proposed legislation: Senate Bill SB-2099 will require us to put on our 2009 1040 federal tax form all guns that you have or own. It may require fingerprints and a tax of $50 per gun.


http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/text

Check out this link concerning that bill -



http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Federal/Read.aspx?id=5098

nice..... like i said, the usually sends good info... this wont be the first time he sent a dud.

[scottgarland]

Those who beat the guns into plows are buried by those who didn't