Author Topic: Getting a 78 750F back on the road - runs but won't move! (Read 5773 times)

mystic_1 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 16, 2009, 04:34:12 PM »

Ok, here's my diagnostic recommendation:

Remove the outer and inner clutch covers, the springs, lifter plate, clutch center, friction and steel discs, and pressure plate.

Put the bike in gear.

Rotate the rear wheel while looking into the clutch case. You should see movement of the clutch basket.

Turn the engine over with the kickstarter while looking into the clutch case. You should see movement of the primary shaft.

If one of these things doesn't happen, you have bigger problems.

If both things happen, the problem is in the components you just removed.

mystic_1

ajinreno · « **Reply #26 on:** March 17, 2009, 07:24:04 PM »

Thanks Mystic 1, the exact opposite happened. I put it in gear and when I rotated the wheel the primary shaft turned. When I turned the engine with the kickstarter the clutch basket turned. By the way, I'm assuming the primary shaft is the shaft that the clutch basket is on, correct? Does this mean I am safe from larger problems?

mystic_1 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:30:23 PM »

Ah, that's a good sign. Sorry I had it backwards, I was working from memory and had a 50/50 chance of getting it right lol. Yes, you're safe from larger problems, the issue is in the clutch.

Next step would be, install the pressure plate, disc pack, clutch center, springs and lifter plate. The clutch should now be engaged. If not, there's a problem with the parts you just installed.

mystic_1

ajinreno · « **Reply #28 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:46:12 PM »

In other words, if I put everything back in...the back wheel should not rotate when in gear because the clutch is engaged, correct?

mrbreeze · « **Reply #29 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:55:02 PM »

WOW!!!....my head is spinning just reading all this stuff!! This will be solved but like already mentioned.....it would be a lot easier with it right in front of my face.I kinda figured it was goin' be solved with the basket being off the teeth but thats not the case!!!I've done loads of automotive and heavy duty clutches but not many on bikes.
THIS WILL GET SOLVED!!!!! Alls a clutch does is seperate your engine from your trans and like already mentioned....if the primary chain is there...its gotta be in the clutch.

754 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:00:07 AM »

Behind the locknut that takes the special tool, I think there is a dished washer, that goes a certain way, I am not talking about the thin loctab that secures the locknut,

Did you see a dished washer in there ?

mrbreeze · « **Reply #31 on:** March 18, 2009, 12:09:28 AM »

754......I think he mentioned he didn't have the basket out but maybe he should pull it and investigate??

Hush · « **Reply #32 on:** March 18, 2009, 03:34:32 AM »

"In other words, if I put everything back in...the back wheel should not rotate when in gear because the clutch is engaged, correct?"
Yes if you put it all back together and pull in the clutch lever then put it in gear the back wheel should not move if it is all back together correctly.

Some times the smallest part omitted or replaced incorrectly can confound the cleverest owner.....don't ask me how I know this.....OK I put all my clutch back in and had a wee bit left over which I thought belonged to another part of the bike, some pressure plate thingy of no obvious importance unless I wanted my bike to actually go forwards under its' own power.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 18, 2009, 04:52:59 AM »

I wouldn't put it ALL back together, just the components up to the lifter plate and springs. Do not reinstall the outer cover and lifter mechanism yet.

Then turn the rear wheel and the engine as before and see what's happening.

mystic_1

ajinreno · « **Reply #34 on:** March 18, 2009, 07:45:41 AM »

I know its most likely something very simple I am just missing...I do have the cupped washer in there, with the cupped surface facing inwards, that's how it was when I first removed it.

I will try putting the clutch back in tonight up to the lifter plate and see if the wheel spins. That idea made something pop into my head last night while trying to fall asleep....the first time I took the clutch cover off, it was a real pain to get it seperated from the engine. The next two times I took it off, it actually pops off about a 1/4" after removing the last screw. Granted I did leave the clutch cable connected, just loosed the adjustment all the way (lazy mechanic.) Is that normal? I initially tried backing off the actuator cam adjusting screw from the outside so immediately ruled that out. But if the cover popping off is not normal, maybe there is something wrong between my cable and lifter plate, namely the actuator cam.

754 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 18, 2009, 08:28:40 AM »

The litte arm your cable ataches to on the clutch cover.. I dont think you can get it in wrong.. but

there is a steel piece on the back side, the actual ballramp.., makes sure no one decided to sHIM it or modify..

Has to be something you are overlooking...

mystic_1 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:18:16 AM »

If the outer cover is popping off on it's own when you remove the screws, that means that your clutch adjuster screw is still pushing in on the lifter plate for some reason.

My bet at this point is that if you assemble up to the lifter plate, it will be ok. Problem is in the lifter cam assembly somewhere.

mystic_1

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #37 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:55:31 AM »

When you have the lever and outer plate removed, try rotating the lifter plate 180-degrees and reassemble. This wil change the depth of the thread on the lifter. Very common to my earlier attempts at rebuilding clutches.

ajinreno · « **Reply #38 on:** March 18, 2009, 10:55:16 AM »

Mystic, I think you are right...I'm stuck at work and have to coach soccer after, hopefully I can have a few minutes to spend on it tonight and verify. If I am not screwing the lifter plate in far enough could that be causing it? I'm paranoid about breaking the screws so might be being over paranoid...

Old Scrambler, I'm confused, how does rotating the lifter plate change the thread depth? It's a flat plat.

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #39 on:** March 18, 2009, 11:07:47 AM »

It has to do with the relationship of the threads on the lifter shaft, including potential wear.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #40 on:** March 18, 2009, 11:21:58 AM »

Quote from: ajinreno on March 18, 2009, 10:55:16 AM

Mystic, I think you are right...I'm stuck at work and have to coach soccer after, hopefully I can have a few minutes to spend on it tonight and verify. If I am not screwing the lifter plate in far enough could that be causing it? I'm paranoid about breaking the screws so might be being over paranoid...

Old Scrambler, I'm confused, how does rotating the lifter plate change the thread depth? It's a flat plat.

Install the lifter plate without the clutch springs. This will show you what it's installed position should be. Run the screws in by hand at this time to make sure you can tighten them all the way without bottoming out. When screws are tight, check to make sure there's no play between the lifter plate and the pressure plate studs.

mystic_1

Old Scrambler · « **Reply #41 on:** March 18, 2009, 05:10:30 PM »

Remove the cable and then the lifter arm to get at the clutch cover. The shaft for the lifter rotates a plate on three ball bearings (the thread). By rotating the shaft you will get the thread to seat properly in the dimples on the plate. I think your initial install may have had the bearings in the flat part of the plate which means when you tightened the screws you were dis-engaging the clutch. Their should not be any pressure on the cover when you install it. The term thread is left over from earlier models that actually used a threaded lifter versus the roller balls. To get the lifter arm to align with the cable, the bearing plate (thread) should have the very slightest amount of snugness. Use the slotted shaft to adjust and tighten with the lever nut.

ajinreno · « **Reply #42 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:05:42 PM »

I think I have it sorted out. Installed the clutch up to the lifter plate and the back wheel does not move. I then put the lifter plate on without springs and discovered my replacements are a hair too long for the studs. On top of this, I never realized the lifter plate with springs installed was supposed to be tightened down all the way until it contacts the pressure plate studs! That is correct, right?
I had such a horrific time when I broke the screws off in the studs the first time that I was not tightening the lifter plate far enough down. This meant that the actuator was continuously putting pressure on the lifter plate which was then disengaging the clutch, and also causing the cover to "pop" off when removed. When I thought i was backing the adjustment screw off so the actuator wouldn't push on the lifter plate, i was just backing it so far out that the screw wasn't pushing on the actuator! Silly me!
So, unless someone sees something wrong in what I just wrote, I will order the correct length screws asap and then report back if that did it.
Thanks for walking me through the mysteries of my own thick headed mistakes!

ajinreno · « **Reply #43 on:** April 03, 2009, 09:34:47 AM »

That was it! I finally got the right length Lifter plate screws, got it tightened down all the way and it works!

mystic_1 · « **Reply #44 on:** April 03, 2009, 10:19:22 AM »

Excellent. Glad you got it sorted.

mystic_1

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Author Topic: Getting a 78 750F back on the road - runs but won't move! (Read 5773 times)