Topic: Lobbying Power?

[jaannaktin]

 

Q: Hi, you may not be interested but the 69 and 70 750 that I bought new had 4 individual throttle cables that coupled to one cable that went to the throttle, no linkage on the carbs
 Oct-15-05
  A: thanks for the info carbs must have been at one time
 
I saw this question answered on a set of carbs for sale on ebay that clearly never had anything to do with a "sandcast" bike. I was thinking of picking them up just for spare parts, but it got me thinking. The seller clearly has no interest is clarifying where the parts came from.

Can't this group petition or lobby ebay powers-that-be to exclude the label "sandcast" from things that aren't sandcast? It is frankly dishonest and fraudulent to represent parts as being something they are not. It also drives up the prices unnecessarily. I'm not trying to start another tired ebay rant, but to see if there is serious interest in contacting someone at ebay to see what can be done. Freemarket does not have to mean lying, dishonest, unethical, cheating sales practices

Another thought I had was a "free" service where the SOHC4 or its members could "endorse" or "grade" a part or parts or whole bikes based on peer review of the posting. A scale like "definite, probable, unlikely and NOT" would be really helpful, especially to prevent price inflation.

Let's put our 1600 plus members and their buying power to work! I do not believe there is any greater authority on these bikes out there, at least not one that could boast this membership.  I would be happy to contact ebay if the "leadership" of this forum thought it could be done.

If I'm just being a whiny cry baby tell me to shut up.

Jaan

[Einyodeler]

At least wait until I sell my "Sandcast" inner tubes and fuse collection

I think the bottom line at e-bay is make more money and damn the customers

[Dennis]

I see this frequently on other makes also. It seems that some sellers will knowingly mislead buyers to bump up the bidding. Or maybe some of them just don't know the difference between the models and don't care if it is misleading.

[Bob Wessner]

True, many of the parts for a true sandcast were used beyond the last ser# for sandcasts so it would be impossible to know if it came from a true sandcast. However, it presents a conundrum in that someone trying to restore a sandcast might just be willing to pay the excessive price. I've kept something of a record of parts that have been successfully auctioned off for the early 750's whether true sandcasts or just early 750's sharing some of the parts and the prices are astonishing. I figure if something ever happens to mine and I have to part it out  I'll have a clue at least as to some parts values.

[Einyodeler]

Psssst..............hey Bob...over here!  Wanna get rich with your parts?Sssshhhhhh
As soon as you take em off the bike you toss em into the kid`s sandbox a couple of times (make sure the cat wasn`t there before you) and then they are officially "Sandcast"

[Bob Wessner]

And I'd be willing to toss in the deed to the Brooklyn Bridge as a deal sweetener. 

[Dennis]

The prices don't get nearly as  outrageous on the other makes and models that I follow as they do on the sandcast stuff. Maybe that's why it is even more blatent on those because the price difference is not that great. What they actually do is mention a model that the part was never used on, just happens to be the same engine type, displacement and manufacturer.
How nice! Aren't ebay sellers just wonderful?
Actually I have found many nice honest sellers on ebay (along with a few F%^kin' pirates who have in fact stolen from me). I just absolutely will not buy from anyone I know to be misrepresenting items in this manner. Way back when I thought that these sellers didn't know any better, I emailed a few to let them know about their "misleading inaccuracies" and I know you already guessed that they never responded.

[jbailey]

You really can't blame the ebay people.  I'm sure they have very little knowledge of SOHC Honda's.  If you propose that they limit the use of the word sandcast, how would someone list the genuine article?

When dealing with ebay, stick with the sellers with good ratings, be sceptical, and remember the old saying "Let the buyer beware".

[Dennis]

You really can't blame the ebay people. I'm sure they have very little knowledge of SOHC Honda's.

And very little knowledge of many other items.

Was anyone really blaming the ebay people? Aside from the fact that they really don't seem to care if a seller posts misleading statements as long as they collect their fees.
Or was it more like taking a few shots at unscrupulous or uncaring sellers who knowingly misrepresent items or use the "hot" model names to mislead buyers?

[mcpuffett]

we have the same problem over here in the uk , a lot of people will use the word sandcast just to get your attention, and others will try to rip you off   mick.

[oldbiker]

Hey Bob, I object to you throwing in the deed to the Brooklyn bridge, it's mine. I bought this only last week from a guy I met in a pub. Must go now to wash my straight jacket for this evenings outing. regards, John.

[Bob Wessner]

Hey Bob, I object to you throwing in the deed to the Brooklyn bridge, it's mine. I bought this only last week from a guy I met in a pub. Must go now to wash my straight jacket for this evenings outing. regards, John.

Now John, you know this was not the best of investments as you folks seem to have trouble holding on to your bridges (e.g., London Bridge is now in Arizona). 

[Gordon]

Misleading auctions are already against eBay policy, but they have to be reported individually by other eBay members.  They consider themselves an auction venue and do not take responsibility for the content of the sellers' auction listings.  I agree that the whole "Sandcast" thing is getting pretty ridiculous, but if they took a stand on just one issue, they'd have to do the same for every single other one. 

The most we can do is to report the auctions when we see them, but like has already been said, it's nearly impossible to say whether a certain part came off a sandcast or not.  The more an item sells for, the more money eBay gets, so unless you can prove to them that a seller is being purposely misleading, they're not going to do anything about it. 

I kind of like the system how it is.  Sure, there are a lot of people trying to rip me off, but I know how to avoid them.  There are also a lot of sellers who make mistakes that are to my benefit, and I know how to find them.  It truly is a buyer beware atmosphere.     

[oldbiker]

Now you've upset me Bob. I bought London Bridge yesterday when I ran into the same guy.

[Bob Wessner]

John, hate to suggest this, but have you considered cutting back on your pub time? 

[Raul CB750K1]

I can't understand all this ranting. There is a lot of literature about the sandcast models and all their peculiarities. I believe every sandcast restorer knows what they are looking for: short chainguard, recessed ignition, non-lip front mudguard etc. If a seller states a metal chainguard as being "sandcast" he is not fooling anyone. True restorers will just ignore it, and people looking for a replacement will bid for it as long as it doesn't get expensive.


I once sold on eBay some Joe Satriani bootleg CD's. I bought them in a long time established record shop, and they would not deal with unlawful stuff so I guess they bought it with all the duties paid. They were "official", this is, had very good artwork and booklets, and CD printing though the quality was not that good. I mean, they were not the kind of recording burnt into a home CD. I don't think the artist or Sony Music were getting any royalty with them.

Long story short, the search engine found the word "bootleg" and one of the auctions was deleted. What did I do? Edited the other ones and replaced "bootleg" by "rare". True Satriani followers knew that they were not official, so they sold very well.


Raul


P.S. eBay mantained my account after that, but suspended it a while back for bidding on items not specifically listed for my country...

[Bob Wessner]

I believe every sandcast restorer knows what they are looking for: short chain guard, recessed ignition,

Raul,

I think, er, thought, the point he was trying to make is that, using your examples above, many of these are not limited to sandcast models, but the seller is trying to insinuate they are.

[Raul CB750K1]

But that's plain obvious!!!! If I have to buy a wheel for my sandcast restoration, I can guess that the wheels were the same during some years of the production running. The fact that a seller is selling a wheel removed from a sandcast doesn't mean than my restoration will be less perfect if I fit a wheel from a K2, made by the same manufacturer and probably in the same batch.

It doesn't matter how many post-sandcast bikes had short chainguards or recessed ignitions. The fact is that all sandcast had them, so if you are restoring one you need them, irrespective of how many bikes after the sandcast fit them. Obviously, the more the better, because there are more chances to find an example, but if you mention "sandcast" in a short chainguard auction you are not lying. The fact that some post-sandcast bikes have also short chainguard doesn't invalidate the first argument.

I'm too bad at logic; probably TwoTired can explain it better 


Raul

[Dennis]

Raul, I have mentioned that I have been watching this occur with other makes and models as well but I have avoided mentioning specifics.
Let's look at another example of this type of abuse. The dollars are not anywhere near as high but the behavior of the sellers is as bad or worse.
Some members here are aware thet I am also involved with 2 stroke Yamahas. The "hot model" (at least in the US) is the RD350 air cooled which was built for 3 years model, '73-'75. In many auctions any parts from any model air cooled 350cc Yamaha will mention RD350. Most times the parts don't have the same appearance. Many times they will not even fit an RD350 or if they do, they will not function correctly. This is obviously a blatent attempt to bump up bidding and the logic you are attempting to present in the sandcast argument does not apply, since most times the parts are obviously different. Do you still want to defend the sleazy (not all ebay sellers - just the sleazy ones) sellers.

[jaannaktin]

I have to agree with Dennis. I know there are sleazy sellers everywhere. It is a VERY NARROW segment that includes just sandcasts. Most of the parts I am #$%*ing about are not unique to sandcasts and are driving the prices up. I hate to think about all the other items that are misrepresented in all kinds of forums, from dolls to furniture.

Buyer beware is a very defeatist attitude. To think that you always have to be on your guard is lousy. The reason I posted this issue again, as tired as it may be, is to generate interest in consumer solidarity. The expertise here is unrivaled, and could be put to use in establishing a foothold against big business like eBay and the unscrupulous vendors they shelter and protect.

As you can tell, I am having a cynical day, and expect this thread to deteriorate into an unrelated tangent, as most of them do.

 

Jaan

[dusterdude]

jaan,kind of looks like you may be right

[Raul CB750K1]

Of course I'm not trying to defend sleazy sellers. Let's put it this way: A seller lists a recessed igniton from a K0 and list it as "sandcast". Well, the ignition didn't come from a K0 but will definitely fit a sandcast, so he is not lying from my point of view.

Now, another seller (as I see lately) lists a CB350 chainguard as "sandcast", while there was no sandcast CB350, at least that I know. What does the "sandcast" mean? Nothing, he is just trying to get more hits, but nobody restoring a sandcast will buy his chainguard, nor will I pay more for it. Like those sellers that list "CB750 Not kawasaki Z1 ", they list a CB750 and will get the attention of people looking for a Z1. He is not fooling anyone, but chances are that somebody looking for a Z1 ends up buying a CB750 if it is good looking.


Regardin the RD350, I bet they clearly state in the item description that the part belongs to a bike that is not a CB350. Then you have the "may fit other models and years". For example, when I broke my CB750 latch I was unable to buy another on eBay, always being outbid. When I knew the CB350 had the very same latch I was able to buy a complete gas cap with latch for about 30 euro shipping included. The intelligent approach from a seller would be to list it as CB750 CB500 CB350 C400, and in the article description, say: "removed from a CB350; may fit other models and years". If you are looking for a CB750 latch, you get a hit on the search engine. Once you open the item description you maybe will see that the item is exactly as yours and maybe buy it.


What I mean is that if you beware no matter what the sellers say. There are lots of auctions for fake garments, like Polo or Carolina Herrera or Dior. They don't say in the auction that they are fake -it is against eBay policies-, it's something the buyer must know beforehand. How do you know when one is the real McCoy? Surprisingly, the real ones must show proof of authenticity, so assume everything iis fake unless proved otherwise.


Raul

[dusterdude]

my opinion is most folks use sandcast in order to get you to look at the part when you use the search feature on ebay.

[Jonesy]

Regardin the RD350, I bet they clearly state in the item description that the part belongs to a bike that is not a CB350. Then you have the "may fit other models and years". For example, when I broke my CB750 latch I was unable to buy another on eBay, always being outbid. When I knew the CB350 had the very same latch I was able to buy a complete gas cap with latch for about 30 euro shipping included. The intelligent approach from a seller would be to list it as CB750 CB500 CB350 C400, and in the article description, say: "removed from a CB350; may fit other models and years". If you are looking for a CB750 latch, you get a hit on the search engine. Once you open the item description you maybe will see that the item is exactly as yours and maybe buy it.

My personal favorite when looking for outboard parts was "...may fit other models, please check your parts books before ordering!" Simple and direct.

(Then they'd know what carb number they are looking for and could spot a phoney "sandcast" carburetor from a mile away!)

[Dennis]

Regardin the RD350, I bet they clearly state in the item description that the part belongs to a bike that is not a CB350.


Raul

NO! Actually many times they don't. Believe it or not!

It is just stated as RD350 rather than some other model. Sonetimes it may mention another model and not say where it came from. Amazing isn't it?