Author Topic: Wiring question - eliminating winkers etc Another question at the end.... (Read 3303 times)

greenjeans · « **on:** March 17, 2009, 09:40:19 AM »

1972 CB750K

On my current project, which is ALMOST finished, it looks like I'm not going to be using the front or rear blinkers.

This might be a silly question, but, when eliminating blinkers, what should you do with the wiring that once went to them ?

I'm probably overthinking this (what else is new) but is it just as simple as sealing the ends so they don't make contact with anything ?

I'm thinking that I might use some on the rear of the bike - will that affect what I need to do with the wiring for the front ones ?

Thanks in advance

Spanner 1 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:49:11 AM »

Just need to unplug their wires....the wiring loom on the bike is set-up such that when you undo a connection the half that is 'hot' is always the insulated half, so go ahead...
You will have to change to a electronic flasher unit as the org. one will not flash with only one bulb ( like you want ) connected....

VonYinzer · « **Reply #2 on:** March 17, 2009, 09:57:50 AM »

On a related note.. Im not running any signals, jut head brake light on my cafe. Anyone know how legal this is? The bike has a reconstructed title here in PA, which ive been told gives me a little wiggle room as far as how the bikes set up. The local inspection station said they would pass it, but i dont want a ticket i cant beat from a pissed off state trooper....

BobbyR · « **Reply #3 on:** March 17, 2009, 10:57:35 AM »

Quote from: VonYinzer on March 17, 2009, 09:57:50 AM

On a related note.. Im not running any signals, jut head brake light on my cafe. Anyone know how legal this is? The bike has a reconstructed title here in PA, which ive been told gives me a little wiggle room as far as how the bikes set up. The local inspection station said they would pass it, but i dont want a ticket i cant beat from a pissed off state trooper....

The answer in the US tat it is not legal. After a certain year you have to have turn signals. When I took my MC llcense test around 1970 you had to use hand signals.

cafe2be · « **Reply #4 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:29:27 AM »

Here in NYC I believe it is anything new than 1978 had to have signals. I hope this is the case since my 77 is now blinkerless.

greenjeans · « **Reply #5 on:** March 17, 2009, 11:56:10 AM »

Anybody care to elaborate on which type of electronic flasher I'd need if I were to run only 2 blinkers on the rear ?

Could I wire it in a way that I could use the existing flasher ?

MCRider · « **Reply #6 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:08:43 PM »

Quote from: BobbyR on March 17, 2009, 10:57:35 AM

Quote from: VonYinzer on March 17, 2009, 09:57:50 AM
On a related note.. Im not running any signals, jut head brake light on my cafe. Anyone know how legal this is? The bike has a reconstructed title here in PA, which ive been told gives me a little wiggle room as far as how the bikes set up. The local inspection station said they would pass it, but i dont want a ticket i cant beat from a pissed off state trooper....

The answer in the US tat it is not legal. After a certain year you have to have turn signals. When I took my MC llcense test around 1970 you had to use hand signals.

i'll throw this in the mix.
I think the Feds have mandated that NEW vehicles sold in US since I think 1972, must have turn signals meeting DOT standards from the factory. State law controls after the sale. (I think).

(See below)

MCRider · « **Reply #7 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:18:04 PM »

Have fun.
Some of these State links are harder to search than others.

http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f72/vehicle-equipment-laws-for-each-state-277505/

MCRider · « **Reply #8 on:** March 17, 2009, 12:54:46 PM »

I was right, then wrong, then right again.

In Indiana:
(b) A motorcycle manufactured before January 1, 1956, is not required to be equipped with a stoplight under subsection (a) if the motorcycle is not operated at the times when lighted head lamps and other illuminating devices are required under IC 9-21-7-2. Insert- IOW-Daylight!-
(c) This subsection does not apply to a motorcycle or motor-drive cycle. A person may not:
(1) sell;
(2) offer for sale; or
(3) operate on the highways;
a motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer registered in Indiana and manufactured or assembled after January 1, 1956, unless the vehicle is equipped with mechanical or electrical turn signals meeting the requirements of section 17 of this chapter.

So regardless of whether it came with them (Federal) or not, Indiana does not require them on a motorcycle. (State).

The fine print on these laws is ridiculous. Hope you can find your State's rules.

MCRider · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:04:11 PM »

It appears New York does not require electric lamps either...

http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/menugetf.cgi?COMMONQUERY=LAWS

Put "turn signals" in the search block. Several links pop up with one addressing hand and electric signals.

Hand signals OK except for big vehicles where your arm isn't long enough to stick out the window.

No comments about hand signals in the dark.

MCRider · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2009, 01:28:06 PM »

http://public.findlaw.com/traffic-ticket-violation-law/traffic-ticket-a-z/mechanical-violation-laws.html

For VonYinzer, PA does not require turnsignals on a motorcycle. They are one up on Indiana in requiring a stop lamp during daylight hours.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/067/chapter175/s175.146.html

Scroll down to "(f)" and note the difference between "shall have" stop light and "may have" turn signals. Turn signals are an allowable option and if installed must blink at a certain rate.

greenjeans · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:32:36 PM »

Good god.....try to find what Texas is. I was under the impression that "antique vehicles" were exempt from the normal vehicle inspection - therefore just needed the basics - headlight tail/stop lamps and a horn...

Guess I might consider putting some turn signals back on & not worry about it.

For the mean time, can anybody tell me if it's possible, using the existing harness (which is complete) to run just rear tail lights ?

MCRider · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2009, 02:55:35 PM »

Quote from: greenjeans on March 17, 2009, 02:32:36 PM

Good god.....try to find what Texas is. I was under the impression that "antique vehicles" were exempt from the normal vehicle inspection - therefore just needed the basics - headlight tail/stop lamps and a horn...

Guess I might consider putting some turn signals back on & not worry about it.

For the mean time, can anybody tell me if it's possible, using the existing harness (which is complete) to run just rear tail lights ?

Do you mean you looked up TX and they require antiques to be inspected? Or are you asking the question.

You can always run less than the harness allows. If you want more, that is additional tail lights, essentially "running lights", you'd have to splice them into the tail light wire.

MCRider · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2009, 03:06:45 PM »

Reading the TX law, they've obfuscated. This says only at night:
Sec. 547.302. DUTY TO DISPLAY LIGHTS. (a) A vehicle shall display each lighted lamp and illuminating device required by this chapter to be on the vehicle:

(1) at nighttime; and

(2) when light is insufficient or atmospheric conditions are unfavorable so that a person or vehicle on the highway is not clearly discernible at a distance of 1,000 feet ahead.
(b) A signaling device, including a stoplamp or a turn signal lamp, shall be lighted as prescribed by this chapter.
(c) At least one lighted lamp shall be displayed on each side of the front of a motor vehicle.
(d) Not more than four of the following may be lighted at one time on the front of a motor vehicle:
(1) a headlamp required by this chapter; or
(2) a lamp, including an auxiliary lamp or spotlamp, that projects a beam with an intensity brighter than 300 candlepower.

But elsewhere it says vehicles must conform to the Federal standard such and such.

That Fed standard may have a beginning date, or other exception, in it. They don't make it easy.

VonYinzer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2009, 09:06:45 AM »

wow guys, thanks for the good info... i have a copy of the pa inspection book, but it says they are required in one section, and in another they arent. way i figure it, if the inspection station doesnt need em, either do i. the headlight adn taillight will run at all times with the custom wiring setup, so that wont be an issue.

BobbyR · « **Reply #15 on:** March 20, 2009, 07:08:09 AM »

The last thing to consider is that at any time you are not able to signal and you make a turn or lane change, you can be given a ticket. There is no burned out bulb excuse. Just food for thought.

MCRider · « **Reply #16 on:** March 20, 2009, 08:35:01 AM »

Quote from: BobbyR on March 20, 2009, 07:08:09 AM

The last thing to consider is that at any time you are not able to signal and you make a turn or lane change, you can be given a ticket. There is no burned out bulb excuse. Just food for thought.

Nor am I advocating not having electric signals. I was just curious what the laws really were.

Even though Indiana for example does not require them they do require that you give a signal and there will be times you need both hands on the bars.

78CB750CAFE · « **Reply #17 on:** March 20, 2009, 09:16:15 AM »

After getting "waved back" at then cut off 1 too many times I gave up and mounted 4 blinkers again.
There are plenty of low key ways to do it these days that will keep the minimal lines of your bike, but might save your hide one day. Look into the flexible led's or maybe mirrors w/blinkers built in. Cagers don't pay attention to us enough already, don't give 'em another excuse to end your ride early.

CrescentSon · « **Reply #18 on:** March 20, 2009, 03:19:24 PM »

I'm a cop in TX so I thought I'd chime in.

Quote

Sec. 547.324. TURN SIGNAL LAMPS REQUIRED. (a) Except as provided by Subsection (b), a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer shall be equipped with electric turn signal lamps that indicate the operator's intent to turn by displaying flashing lights to the front and rear of a vehicle or combination of vehicles and on that side of the vehicle or combination toward which the turn is to be made.

(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a passenger car or truck less than 80 inches wide manufactured or assembled before the model year 1960.

(c) Turn signal lamps:

(1) shall be mounted at the same level and spaced as widely apart as practicable on the front and on the rear of the vehicle; and

(2) may be included as a part of another lamp on the vehicle.

(d) A turn signal lamp shall emit:

(1) a white or amber light, or a color between white and amber, if the lamp is mounted on the front of the vehicle; or

(2) a red or amber light, or a color between red and amber, if the lamp is mounted on the rear of the vehicle.

(e) A turn signal lamp must be visible in normal sunlight at a distance of:

(1) at least 500 feet from the front and rear of the vehicle if the vehicle is at least 80 inches wide; and

(2) at least 300 feet from the front and rear of the vehicle if the vehicle is less than 80 inches wide.

Case law shows that the 1960 cutoff refers to motorcycles as well. Basically any motor vehicle in Texas made after 1960, or greater than 80" regardless of age SHALL have signals. A similar statute applies to tail, stop, and LP lamps.

Antique vehicle reg does not relieve the burden either... Sorry to be a buzz kill.

MCRider · « **Reply #19 on:** March 20, 2009, 04:54:13 PM »

Not to put you on the spot but how does that square with my post several back quoting:
"Sec. 547.302. DUTY TO DISPLAY LIGHTS. (a) A vehicle shall display each lighted lamp and illuminating device required by this chapter to be on the vehicle:

(1) at nighttime; and

(2) when light is insufficient ...

Between your section and my section it seems the vehicle must have lamps, but is not required to display them except at night or when light is insufficient...

I can see your point that then one must still have lamps, which was a misread on my part, but is not required to "display" them.

You have my respect sir, I appreciate your service in the face of such ambiguity.

CrescentSon · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2009, 01:16:59 AM »

The key is the term lighted lamp. That section refers to when the lights should be on. I don't particularly agree with their wording but the sentence;

Quote

(b) A signaling device, including a stoplamp or a turn signal lamp, shall be lighted as prescribed by this chapter.

is referring to the statute I quoted (Sec. 547.324. TURN SIGNAL LAMPS REQUIRED)

The other lamps are to be used;

Quote

(1) at nighttime; and

(2) when light is insufficient ...

Points (1) and (2) only apply to the statement;

Quote

(a) A vehicle shall display each lighted lamp and illuminating device required by this chapter to be on the vehicle:

Winkers have their own statute later in the chapter as they are the "lighted lamps and illuminating devices required". There are also sub sections for the other lamps that get into more detail. The charge on the books is "Absence of Signal Lamps". There is also a charge for "Failure to Display...", but that is a violation involving lights not being on when mandated. You can get out of a "Failure to Display Turn Signal" by using a hand signal, but you won't pass inspection without the lights in place and you risk a ticket for "Absence of Signal Lamps".

Hope it helps, sorry if it invites the use of another popular hand signal...

MCRider · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2009, 02:40:33 AM »

Thanks for the explanation. Makes me wonder what reference I may have missed in the Indiana law.

All I can say is Wow. ... Wow. All that for ...turn signals.

Is there any way we can ever unwind the bureacracy to a simpler time.

Not directed at you. I am not one to disrespect those who choose to help keep the peace.

Thanks.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2009, 11:25:43 AM »

I always assumed if the bike came with turn sigs..then they should be there. I went to the mini's because I thought the stockers were too obtrusive looking.Doing this eliminated my front running lights which I don't mind.I think it is better to give other motorists some idea of what your intensions are and if you wanna be anal about it....you can always flash a hand signal as well as blinker.
Another point here is the headlight.I don't know what year they eliminated the headlight switch but mine still has it (75K).If I'm tuning....I like to be able to turn off the headlight to perserve my battery but state law (Calif.) says bikes need to run a headlight even in daytime. I don't know if I could avoid a ticket by saying I forgot to turn it on but I doubt it.Just for safety sake and to keep the cops happy....I run the headlight and turn sigs.

BobbyR · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2009, 04:05:08 PM »

Quote from: mrbreeze on March 21, 2009, 11:25:43 AM

I always assumed if the bike came with turn sigs..then they should be there. I went to the mini's because I thought the stockers were too obtrusive looking.Doing this eliminated my front running lights which I don't mind.I think it is better to give other motorists some idea of what your intensions are and if you wanna be anal about it....you can always flash a hand signal as well as blinker.
Another point here is the headlight.I don't know what year they eliminated the headlight switch but mine still has it (75K).If I'm tuning....I like to be able to turn off the headlight to perserve my battery but state law (Calif.) says bikes need to run a headlight even in daytime. I don't know if I could avoid a ticket by saying I forgot to turn it on but I doubt it.Just for safety sake and to keep the cops happy....I run the headlight and turn sigs.

I have to take safety courses all the time. After a while you figure out that all safety regulations are written in blood. Ky first bike had no turn signals, I had too many close calls.

greenjeans · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2009, 05:51:13 PM »

Well, I've ordered some turn signals. Found some that can blend in pretty easy. Thanks everybody....I think those guys
doing the actual writing of the code must be proud.?

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Author Topic: Wiring question - eliminating winkers etc Another question at the end.... (Read 3303 times)