Topic: The point of no shocks...

[heffay]

I don't see much in it... suspension is such an integral part of motorcycle design... please explain why you would want to disregard that.

[mlinder]

What?

[heffay]

H A R D T A I L ?

[Industrial Cafe]

cause it's rad? I dunno. I wouldn't do it.


I really just wanted to bump the thread

[heffay]

cause it's rad?

that is mostly the response i expect... which i totally respect, i'm all about aesthetics. 

i just wonder if anyone thinks there is an advantage.

[Tim.]

Well it's a lot simpler a design I guess - no swingarm, no shocks - toss a couple big springs under the seat and you're done.

Fine for choppers and other bikes designed to go in a straight line down smooth concrete.  To convert from sprung to hard is as you suggest, a purely aesthetic exercise.  I like the look of a hard tailed bobber, but would build a low-slung suspended bike as an alternative to hacking up a frame.

[754]

Looks, weight, handling under hard acceleration.
easier to reach the ground, easier kickstarting, quick adjustment of height.. are some of the reasons..

[HavocTurbo]

Ever taken one around a track?

Sling the engine low enough and it'll stick like glue to a track. As long as it's in a giant oval. 

That would be the only reason I could see for a hard tail on a modern bike these days.

I say we bring back board track races without the board tracks!!! I'll be the first to signup.

[heffay]

Sling the engine low enough and it'll stick like glue to a track. As long as it's in a giant oval. 

i don't see how that is possible... at least more so than a suspended bike.
can you explain why?

[masonryman]

on a drag strip the weight transfer, movement of the suspension, just soaks up HP and delays the reaction of the bike

[masonryman]

A lot of purpose build race vehicles have very little suspension movement, take sprint cars and modifieds, they let the body and axles roll all over the place but have very little travel in the rear

[heffay]

then why the heck on these old vintage racers do people put longer shocks on?
why such a stark contrast in beliefs on what works best?

i think it might just be drags vs. road racing... i'd do it on a dragstrip but i'd be pretty leery of doing it on a road race track.

[Maxacceleration]

Vintage minimalist.
Hardtail comes from an era, nothing more.
Just like they had spark advance and external poppet valves.
Its all they knew...

A bar hoppin' bobber would be fun...

[HavocTurbo]

Sling the engine low enough and it'll stick like glue to a track. As long as it's in a giant oval. 

i don't see how that is possible... at least more so than a suspended bike.
can you explain why?

When the rear tire will not move independently from the frame, you can get the engine closer (space wise) and lower to the ground than with suspension. Allowing an extremely low center of gravity and very short wheelbase.

Combine that with a front suspension with very little travel, soft compression settings and harsh rebound settings (I'm almost 250lbs) and I can outlean just about anything on the track.

I never said it'll go as fast as the newer bikes..... but I can out turn them.

[heffay]

i don't believe you... could you please verify your credentials?   

sorry... bad taste.   

[fdbrat]

Awe Heffay Wants Credentials. Where have I herd that before?

[HavocTurbo]

Surpised you didn't ask me for my papers Heff.

Nazi bastard. 

I'll look for pictuers in my stacks, but I had a buell that was "supposed" to go chopper by a customer's requests and ended up in my posession after he refused to follow his payment plan.

So I took it a step further and hacked the crap he wanted off of the front and replaced it all with yz250 forks and drag bars.

Took the trans and turned it up into a more vertical profile so save space. And mounted the rear wheel as close as I could get it. (all of this was his idea)

After I turned it into a hardtail track bike, I almost got laughed off of Blackhawk Raceway in South Beloit, IL. But the owner knew me from my car racing so he said I could run with the 600's for two laps.

I started last and ended up in the middle of 40 bikes after 10 laps. I was told I could never bring that particular bike back, but he enjoyed watching me trying to kill myself. (and my butt).

Most uncomfortable racing ever.... but fun none the less.

[BobbyR]

I rode a hardtail for a few weeks back in the day. It was real hard to handle on rough city streets as the back walked out a lot. On a smooth highway it was OK. MY old ass would not withstand it today. I am having my old seat refilled with that space age rubber they use on matresses.