Author Topic: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?  (Read 936 times)

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Offline mycb750k6

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How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« on: March 18, 2009, 11:53:21 AM »
I have to pull up the choke all the way to start my 76 CB750 K6. And once it starts, which it does immediately, I push the choke all the way in. The problem is the engine will not idle unattended until it warms up even with the choke out so I have to be on the throttle until that happens. No choke setting will keep it idling. In fact I need to turn the choke off or it will appear to flood out. My question is shouldn't some choke be used while it's warming up at a rich idle to keep it running? And if so, what's wrong with mine? Some jets need cleaning?

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 12:18:48 PM »
Possibly, but once it warms up everything is shiny, yes?
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Offline hopterfixer

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 12:34:08 PM »
Mine starts the same way.  Most of the time it doesn't need any choke at all to start, even if the OAT is in the 30's.  I choke it a little for good measure then use my cruise/throttle lock to hold the idle up a little until it warms up.   

Offline TwoTired

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 01:05:55 PM »
Is this your first experience with carbureted engines?

There is no computer for the engine, and the carbs are dumb and tuned for normal operations.  A cold engine is not considered normal.

The fuel in the A/F mixture condenses on cold engine internal bits, which makes their hydrocarbons unavailable for pairing with the oxygen.  You have to supply an extra rich mixture to compensate. IE: choke.

A cold engine does not burn its fuel efficiently, so less energy is available to spin the crankshaft.  Further, a closed or partially closed choke reduces the amount of oxygen getting to the chambers, changing its breathing characteristics.  At equivalent settings of the throttle, directly controlled by the twist grip, the engine operates at a lower RPM when cold, if able.

Some carbs have a fast idle cam to up the mechanical idle setting when the choke is actuated.  Some Hondas don't have this fast idle cam.  Early models had a throttle friction adjust that would hold the throttle at a higher setting (against the return spring), if the operator didn't want to keep his hand on the throttle to keep it running.  When Honda Lawyers figured out that people were using this feature as a cruise control and losing control of their bikes, Honda discontinued the throttle friction adjust, to limit liability.

It is normal to need choke for cold start up, and/or partial choke while the engine temp rises to normal.  It is also normal for it to not idle at the same RPM when cold as when hot.

Now, if you wish to add an exhaust gas probe and computer link it to adjustable jets, then you can remove some operator skill needed for engine operation over a wide range of Outside Air Temperatures.  ;D

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
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Offline Spanner 1

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 06:01:23 PM »
Unfortunately, the carbs. thru' K6 don't have the idle lifter when you pull the choke lever on. It is lever at carbs., right ?   If cable choke an adjustment at the throttle cable cam will increase the idle rpm.
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Offline fmctm1sw

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 06:17:23 PM »
Early models had a throttle friction adjust that would hold the throttle at a higher setting (against the return spring), if the operator didn't want to keep his hand on the throttle to keep it running.  When Honda Lawyers figured out that people were using this feature as a cruise control and losing control of their bikes, Honda discontinued the throttle friction adjust, to limit liability.


Idea!  Honestly, I never would have though of that...  I learn something here every day...
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Offline mycb750k6

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 06:43:01 PM »
Well I guess I havn't made myself clear - once again. I remember way back when I bought my first CB750 in 1971 that the choke lever could be slowly closed just like an old car choke as the engine warmed but in any event, a open choke allowed it to run until it warmed up. Not so with this 76 so my question - what's wrong. If the choke can't be used to keep it running until it warms, what's it good for, just starting? Doesn't sound right to me.

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 06:56:24 PM »
My guess is that something is loose on the mechanism as the choke lever should stay at whatever partial setting you put it to....not just on or off.
If your sure it's a carb problem; it's ignition,
If your sure it's an ignition problem; it's carbs....

Offline TwoTired

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 06:57:40 PM »
If the choke can't be used to keep it running until it warms, what's it good for, just starting? Doesn't sound right to me.

No, it doesn't.   IF you are also adding a little throttle.

Have other changes been made to the bike from stock?  Exhaust, air filter?  What is it's tune up state?  What do the spark plug deposits look like?
Have the carbs been worked on previously?

Cheers,
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 10:25:58 PM by TwoTired »
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline mrbreeze

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Re: How's it supposed to work? - another jetting question?
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 09:30:47 PM »
Usually,the choke needs to be fully closed to start a cold engine but needs to be slightly opened to continue running (it has to have some air). If you remember the old days before fuel injected cars.......carburetors......you had to mash down the gas pedal to set your choke. That happened due to a choke thermostat.The car would start but idle high (fast idle linkage). The engine would continue to run due to a choke pull-off (partially opening the choke). After a bit of warm up,you mash the pedal down again and it would idle down.That is the thermostat warming up allowing the choke plate to open up which allowed the fast idle cam to lower the idle speed.It was a fairly complicated set-up with various linkages and vacuum operated devices.A fair amount of adjustments would have to made to make it all work properly and when it didn't operate properly....you could just about bet that someone that had no business tinkering with it did!!
These bikes work on the same princple except they are manual(like already mentioned the 77-78's did have a fast idle cam so you didn't have to stay with the bike and babysit while it warmed up).
So in conclusion.....you don't have a problem......it's the nature of the beast!!!!
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