Topic: Engine Braking, Engine Breaking? What's Best Practice?

[Popwood]

I read a post last night, perhaps on the "other bikes" forum, and someone was making the case that the clutch should always be disengaged when braking, the argument being replacing brake parts is easier and less expensive than potential damage done to internal engine parts (like cam chain) when downshifting as assist to slowing the bike. Made me question my riding style. I can easily understand not jerking the engine around downshifting, but is downshifting with a "smooth" touch really doing damage?

What do you all do? What's the best practice?

[TwoTired]

If you use your bike at all, you are damaging it in some way, (friction and wear in many places).

As long as you keep it under red line, I don't see an issue with using engine compression for braking.  Of course, you have to modulate your rear brake pedal pressure to keep an even braking effect.  I wonder if you're talking about using clutch friction, slipping it during decel.  That will certainly wear out the clutch faster.   If so, for street conditions (not racing) leave it in gear, using engine braking.

For example: say you are cruising at 60 MPH, top gear, and need to come to a stop.  Back off on throttle and use engine breaking and that top gear, until the engine gets at or near idle RPM.  Then pull in the clutch and go down several gears to first.  Complete the stop. 

Bikes were meant to be used for fun and inevitably get used up in the process.  If your technique reduces enjoyment/performance, why trade the fun for some small amount of longevity?  They aren't going to last forever, no matter what you do, short of a museum exhibit.  And, if it IS a museum exhibit, who cares if it is worn out inside?  It's just eye candy.

IMO
Cheers,

[fmctm1sw]

Got me questioning my style too.  Also, downshifting and twisting the throttle to meet the right RPM is the most likely time for my bike to throw smoke out the pipes too I noticed.

[Gordon]

In addition to the engine braking effect you get from downshifting, it's also a good idea to keep your bike in the correct gear for the speed you're currently traveling. 

[BobbyR]

To mantain proper control you need to use engine braking, if you are an animal about it u will wear out something.

[Bob Wessner]

.. it's also a good idea to keep your bike in the correct gear for the speed you're currently traveling. 

+1 on this. You never know when you might need to accelerate out of a tight spot. Hard to do if you're in too tall a gear.

[TwoTired]

In addition to the engine braking effect you get from downshifting, it's also a good idea to keep your bike in the correct gear for the speed you're currently traveling. 

Absolutely agree with this.  I try to keep the bike in the power band, particularly so in traffic.  Gives the added option of escape by power as well as braking, and other maneuvering.

Cheers,

[Bodi]

The engine has no way to know it's braking rather than accelerating or cruising. It won't wear out faster because you use it to slow down.
The transmission is working differently and loading the "backs" of the gears - these are usually less polished than the "front" or driving faces of the gears (they get polished from use, and almost all of the time you're driving the wheels with the engine, not vice-versa) so you get a different gear whine noise during engine braking. This is not a sign of distress, just the normal situation.
The clutch plates are putting pressure on the opposite edges of the spline and basket teeth than when driving. This is a non-issue too, the splines and teeth are equally strong both ways.
The primary chain(s) will have slack where usually tight, and be tight where usually slack. No big deal. This might sound a bit odd too, but no damage will result.
The cam chain will be running exactly the same as when driving. The valves work the same regardless of throttle position.
Sudden RPM changes load various engine parts quite heavily, whether you are doing clutchless shifting on acceleration or deceleration orabruptly engaging the clutch causing a large change in engine RPM. This can cause damage to the primary, cam, or drive chains. You have to be very abusive to cause serious damage though!
Forcing the engine to over-rev during engine braking is obviously a bad idea, just like over-revving on acceleration.
Actually you can use the engine for braking with no wear or damage beyond what is being caused by riding it anyway. Using the brakes will cause wear, but they last a long (relatively) time so this isn't much of a worry.
So it is entirely a personal decision to use or avoid engine braking. I think it is actually a good practice, since it forces you to be in the right gear for acceleration when and if you need to speed up again.
It's not a big issue with disc brakes or with bikes in general, but engine braking on long downhill grades is a good practice. Cars and trucks with drum brakes can have brake failures (and crashes) in this situation as the brakes overheat and fade severely when braking down long grades. The lighter weight of a bike and the fade resistance of disc brakes means we don't have much to worry about. I have experienced serious brake fade on an 60's era two stroke drum brake bike on long grades in the Rockies, though. Severely scary situation - 2-stroke engines have roughly zero engine braking!

[Spanner 1]

I'm with Gordon,again !, on this one...changing-down the gears as you slow down and enjoying the benefit of engine braking is a no-brainer... I'm not saying high rpm causing change-downs, just clicking down thru' the gears as you slow is proper riding practice, not leaving it in top gear until it about stalls and  then pulling the clutch at say 20mph...oooohh nooo, then when you stop ya have to fight with the shifter trying to find N, somewhere down there, that's  NUTS! Also, if you need to get-out-of-the-way of something, try doing it in 5th. at 15mph.!!
Downshift Every Time...IMO.
What the heck am I on about....mines a Hondamatic   !!

[Markcb750]

I usually toss in a little throttle blip just as I pull in the clutch for a downshift. I have done this since my Super 90 days.  Not necessary, but I like it.


Part of the fun, worry only about being too aggressive and shifting down more then one gear at a time, this can ruin your ride.

[jtb]

Somehow, I just can't bring myself to ride without downshifting and engine braking... and going fast and stuff

[B.O.X.N.I.F.E.]

My grandpa always said it was a good practice, especially on steep down grades.

[Popwood]

Great posts everyone, TT, Gordon, Bodi, Bobby, et al. All seems like common sense and right on regarding riding fun and enjoyment vs. museum piece. It just seems natural to use engine braking. Reminds me of something I read about the importance of riding "smooth." Everything from gear changing to turning/cornering, etc. When you are in the "groove" of your bike you are part of the machine and respond accordingly.

Also remember years ago reading "How to Keep Your Volkswagon Alive" and the author spoke of brakes as "negative" energy and the engine as "positive" energy.

Thanks, again, all. Good thoughts.

[TheHun]

I engine break...not abusively but just regular engine breaking from slowing down from cruising speed

[SteveD CB500F]

I first heard this many years ago on a TV programme about motor rallying.

Colin McRae was showing a newbie (reporter) how to drive one of those blue "555" Subarus and told him off for using the engine braking.

"Brake pads are quicker to replace than gearboxes"

Not sure if it's still true though - modern MotoGP bikes use slipper clutches that allow clutchless downchanges without rear wheel lock.

[Retro Rocket]

I was taught a long long time ago, to blip the throttle to help engine and gearbox speeds get a little closer to the same speed helps eliminate rear wheel lock up when down shifting, especially when riding quick where higher revs are used. Just like changing gears on a truck.

Mick

[Sweep]

I may be the sole counterpoint in this thread but...

For sport riding and safety I do downshift and use matched rpms (heel&toe in a car ).  But as a hypermiler when I drive (vw diesel) I've learned to shift into neutral whenever possible to coast as much as possible, especially downhills and to lights.  Of course being on a bike precludes most of these behaviors for safety sake but I thought it should be mentioned for those that are concerned with mileage.

As for not wearing the motor out when you downshift?  Of course it will wear the motor more, the motor is kept under load for the engine breaking not to mention the stress of any improper downshifts.

[ev0lve]

It just seems natural to use engine braking.

Not to mention the sound and how it brings out the small child giddiness in me (vroooooooooooooom!) 

Too ingrained a behavior to change now I think.

[736cc]

 Mark McGrew @ M3 Racing says that from his vast hi-performance experiance CB750 primary chains break during extreme hi-rpm DECELERATION not acceleration.
I whip the crap outa my bikes everytime I ride 'em and only had 1 top-end blow-up, and that was when a missed shift made the tach needle spin all the way around the dial.

[Gordon]

Mark McGrew @ M3 Racing says that from his vast hi-performance experiance CB750 cam chains break during extreme hi-rpm DECELERATION not acceleration.

A lot of parts on these bikes (or any bike for that matter) will break if the bike's used in a way that it wasn't intended to be used.  I don't do extreme high rpm anything on my 750, so engine braking works fine for me.