Author Topic: It's all Kit's fault - a.k.a. Another 1980 CB650C Resto... (Read 15903 times)

Hush · « **Reply #75 on:** April 05, 2009, 03:10:40 PM »

That Hardley ain't a safe proposition then Mickey, with all the parts you want you may have to sell it to fund your obsession.

MikeB · « **Reply #76 on:** April 05, 2009, 04:19:19 PM »

Quote from: MickeyX on April 05, 2009, 02:04:39 PM

the CDI leaked all over the bike but I'm not too sure how to test it (gonna look that up tonight). I'm thinking this is what sends power to the coils? Need new plug wires and caps, got the new coils in this past week. I need to check the R/R too. *sigh* And it begins...

Hi Mikey

That's what i was thinking too (some kind of capacitor circuit

) but could find no referance on how to
check them, other than (REPLACE WITH KNOWN WORKING UNITS) ya right !
luckly mine work but the backs look a little melted , not dripping yet $:-\$
I did find that honda used them in a wide range of bikes, have found them on ebay but I don't like buying
used electrical parts on ebay $:-\$

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #77 on:** April 06, 2009, 08:12:06 AM »

CDI units work in conjunction with the electronic ignition units on the end of your crankshaft.

Effectively taking the place of points and condensors.

Without that, it'll never run.

No real way to test them except with a complicated set-up, we just replace if there's even suspicion. It's actually cheaper to do so.

I think we have some available if you want me to check.

Soos · « **Reply #78 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:06:26 AM »

As far as testing them CDI units, I think I recall something about being able to test them, But I simply ran them if they worked.
Mabey on one of the 650 sites?
Daves? not sure....

Having one running bike to test the bits on would be a help to you.
... Just tell kit you want to go for a ride on hers, go to the nearest parking lot, swap the bits, and see if they work.

l8r

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #79 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:09:08 AM »

Quote from: Soos on April 06, 2009, 09:06:26 AM

As far as testing them CDI units, I think I recall something about being able to test them, But I simply ran them if they worked.
Mabey on one of the 650 sites?
Daves? not sure....

Having one running bike to test the bits on would be a help to you.
... Just tell kit you want to go for a ride on hers, go to the nearest parking lot, swap the bits, and see if they work.

l8r

I'm sure someone has found a simpler way. Which would be awesome!!!

We followed the factory Kawasaki/Honda/Suzuki way of doing ti with various resistors wired into test leads all hooked up to a battery and local switch. Big pain in the butt trying to wire everything into one or two plugs with connectors the size of a human hair.

Soos · « **Reply #80 on:** April 06, 2009, 09:43:14 AM »

In this post by pinhead, he did a good amount of detective work, and found some good info...
http://www.hondacb650.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=488&p=3257&hilit=CDI#p3257

But if you wanna be lazy, I followed the link in his post to the CBX TPI ignition system.
(what the 650's actually have not a read CDI system)
page one:
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/trilogy01.html
This second page has a bit on testing them...
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/trilogy02.html
page 3
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/trilogy03.html

WELL worth the read for all 3 pages, it explains quite a bit.

And for the really lazy:

Quote

The Spark Unit
TPI’s spark units have easily recognizable failure modes. A common one is when an attempt is made to start the bike after it has sat awhile and the battery is low. During starting, battery voltage normally dips when the starter is used but with less to start with, the battery’s voltage drops too low for the spark unit to operate, and the engine will not start due to loss of spark. Meantime, the transistor is overheating, and will soon permanently fail. This is such a known failure mode that Honda later added time-out circuits to their TPI systems, as did also other manufacturers. Another possible route to failure is the unthinking substitution of ignition coils having too low a primary resistance. Such coils will burn out the spark units. You have no doubt heard of this. High performance ignition coils have higher potential voltage output because they have larger primary to secondary winding turn ratios. There are two ways to build a coil with a larger turn ratio - either leave the primary the same and increase the secondary turns, or leave the secondary the same and decrease the primary turns. The latter method was once very popular. However, it results in a coil having lower than stock primary resistance. While not big deal on a points bike, whose points will merely arc a bit more, the transistors in a TPI system will not endure the increased current flow through the coil for very long, and the spark units will fail. We’ll address this issue again in Part 3. One thing you do not have to worry about with spark units is failures due to loss of ground. Their metal boxes do not physically ground, but rather, the spark units get their grounds through the green wire feeding back into the wire harness. And here are a few tips. When the ignition system is acting up, but it is mostly when the engine is warm, don’t suspect the spark units. The pulsers are likely the problem. When the ignition performs badly whether hot or cold, then the spark units become more suspect.

Testing
Perhaps the easiest way to test a spark unit on a later model CBX is to simply substitute one of the other two on the bike. Of course, that only helps if the spark is visibly poor or non-existent, and doesn’t help if you are trying to judge the performance of the engine as a whole. While the professional tech will use a peak voltage tester, there aren’t any conclusive tests for the spark unit that the do-it-yourselfer can use, except to test all around it, and that is valid. It’s also accurate, if done carefully. Simply test the pulser and the ignition coil. All that is left is the spark unit. Part 1 described how to test the pulser, and we’ll look at how to test the ignition coil in Part 3.

l8r

MikeB · « **Reply #81 on:** April 06, 2009, 11:17:26 AM »

Thanks Soos and thanks to Pinhead

This is very helpfull
Mike

Soos · « **Reply #82 on:** April 07, 2009, 07:23:48 AM »

From reading those pages there are a few finer points I see as really important on a stock cb650.

IF you replace the coils... go 3.0 ohm or 5.0 ohm... The stockers are 2.4ohm...
I don't seriously think that there is THAT much difference in performance unless you are running high compression pistons or something.

As well as try not to let the battery run down, or you risk killing the spark units unintentionally.

And to avoid all this hassle.... mod a dyna2000 kit to work on your 650.....

Removes the hassle of the spark units completely.
For about $400.... if you can do the mods yourself.
Or buy one, and pay me to mod it for you

l8r

Soos · « **Reply #83 on:** April 07, 2009, 07:27:41 AM »

Quote from: MikeB on April 06, 2009, 11:17:26 AM

thanks to Pinhead

Pinhead has unearthed MANY a topic I have found quite interesting regarding the cb650.
the hondacb650.com site has a few absolute gems as far as info bits.
I'm quite partial to SOHC4.net though.
Personal reasons.....

l8r

manjisann · « **Reply #84 on:** April 07, 2009, 04:35:50 PM »

Nice engine guards mickey, i've eyed them many times. I'm still trying to decide what I want to do with mine. Either put an engine guard with foot pegs for the long rides, or i've toyed with the idea of doing forward controls. Course, gotta get it running

Brandon

MosquitoJones · « **Reply #85 on:** April 08, 2009, 08:09:19 AM »

What is it with Utah and 650's? I think there's 4 of us on the board that post with any regularity and we all have 650's.

Maybe there was a sale back in the day...

Soos · « **Reply #86 on:** April 08, 2009, 08:19:19 AM »

Dunno.
Theres a neighbor 1 block away with a cb750. I've made up "buisness" cards with the SOHC4 web site, and he hasn't gotten on obviously.

Mabey all the 750 riders are busy with maintenance while we have a bit more free time...

J/K... Dunno why.

l8r

manjisann · « **Reply #87 on:** April 08, 2009, 11:12:21 AM »

Quote

Mabey all the 750 riders are busy with maintenance while we have a bit more free time... Smiley

HAHA, could be. Sadly mine doesn't run yet. I've gotta finish another non motorcycle related (horrid eh

) project before I can tear into my baby. I have got a huge portion of what I know I'll need and I'm really hoping in the next couple weeks to get started.

Brandon

MosquitoJones · « **Reply #88 on:** April 08, 2009, 11:47:14 AM »

Not sure where in SLC you are, but if you want/need help let me know. Not that I know what I'm doing, but another pair of hands can be useful, especially if you're pulling out the engine.

manjisann · « **Reply #89 on:** April 08, 2009, 03:23:47 PM »

Sorry Mickey, I think the thread was jacked and turned into the CB650 Utah owners thread

MJ, thanks, I just might take you up on your offer. I'm in Sandy, near Alta View Hospital. I saw an awesome thread about how to pull the engine. The guy welded a hook type thing and put a strap on the engine and did it that way with the bike standing up. I am trying to convince myself to find the money to get a chain hoist, buy the stuff to make the hook and strap, and also trying to decide what paint I want to use to do my frame. Do I want to go full bore and use all the Kustom Shop stuff, I have most of what I need, just have to buy some black. Or I know there has been a ton of questions about using Rustoleum or Duplicolor and then using a 2 part clear over it, but haven't found anyone saying they've tried it. I'm seriously toying with the idea of using Rustoleum primer and paint and then clearing over it with the 2 part clear I have. If I decide to do KS the whole way, I may still spray a Rustoleum panel just to answer that pesky question.

Sorry again Mickey. When I start my thread you can come and hi-jack it

I seriously do hope you and Kit will stop by and check it out. I've really enjoyed reading both your threads about the 650's and have no doubt I'll be referring to them while I'm doing mine.

Brandon

Brandon.

MosquitoJones · « **Reply #90 on:** April 08, 2009, 03:32:42 PM »

Won't you be happy when you get that thing up and running? 5 minutes to serious twisties!

Anyway, what Kit and Mickey can do is when they get the bike up and running is take a road trip to Utah and hang out with all the 650s and their owners

MickeyX · « **Reply #91 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:45:17 AM »

Bump!

Well, Samson has been a willing donor to Kit's bike, Delilah. I had a feeling that would happen. Now that D is finally acting like a lady, Samson will start to feel some love. We took off his stator/rotor to have them rebuilt for Kit so she could keep riding in the meantime. Now, hers get rebuilt to go on Samson. Samson is rather nekkid without his pipes. We took them off since Kit really wanted some 4-4s and I didn't. One was actually unusable from rust. Luckily, we found a replacement at the salvage yard for that side. I really liked a set of pipes I saw on someone's bike here the other day. 4-1 and a really wild crossover pattern. I have an email into a distirbutor here in the states to get more info, like price. $$$ For now, we have Kit's 4-2 to put on so we can get her running and not scare the sh!t out of the neighbors.

I like the bratstyle bikes a lot. This seat is the bomb and would go well with the contours of the bike. It's what I was thinking of in my head from the beginning. I'm wondering how to bolt it on though since the current place is where this one gets skinny at the back. any ideas on this? Maybe like I do on my Harley. One bolt at the very back, center... goes through the fender.

I still like the idea of putting the black fork boots on and maybe blacking the lower forks. Kit and I will switch rims for sure. She really likes the comstars and I really love spokes. Since the back tires are different sizes (16" and 17"), we'll have to wait until we can swing a new set of tires too.

First off though, the carb kits, plugs, wires and caps, (we have some coils waiting to replace the cracked ones), new oil and filters, probably new in tank filter.... the basics. The battery needs checked, probably replaced. Have a used switch housing to replace teh cracked one. I don't need rain getting in there.

Kit has already flat blacked most of the tank to see what it would look like. I like having most of the tank flat with a shiny black offset stripe on top or scallop on the side. But a hot colored, metal flake paint with a dark stripe to offset would be coo too. I'd like to have Kit experiment some more first.

I guess that's it for now. Just have to start doing some overtime to get the parts on their way.

MickeyX · « **Reply #92 on:** July 06, 2009, 12:48:45 AM »

Oh, btw... where can we get that little black plastic piece on the carbs at the choke lever? We (I) broke the one on Kit's carbs so we stole the one off of Samson to get her running again. I just realized we need another one. Shoot.

manjisann · « **Reply #93 on:** July 06, 2009, 04:11:31 AM »

Quote

Insert Quote
Oh, btw... where can we get that little black plastic piece on the carbs at the choke lever? We (I) broke the one on Kit's carbs so we stole the one off of Samson to get her running again. I just realized we need another one. Shoot.

Does Bike Bandit have it listed? If not it may be unobtainium and you will have to buy a parts carb set

Brandon

MickeyX · « **Reply #94 on:** July 06, 2009, 09:42:24 AM »

Yeah, that's what Kit is thinking too. Damn.

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #95 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:50:01 AM »

According to Crotchrocket.com

The choke assy is a cable.

If that's the case it is still available for around $25-$30

MickeyX · « **Reply #96 on:** July 06, 2009, 10:57:54 AM »

Well, as far as I know, the choke cable is ok. It's the little black piece of plastic on the carbs that it hooks into that is missing. Can't get it separate anywhere or with another part. I would have to buy a set of junk carbs, I think.

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #97 on:** July 06, 2009, 11:06:31 AM »

The whole choke link set is still available.

But I have no idea whether or not that platic piece is on there.

MickeyX · « **Reply #98 on:** July 19, 2009, 06:08:23 PM »

I think I'll either have to get a set of rusty carbs from the salvage guys for that part or I'll switch to a set off of something else, like a Suzuki, that will work. Still contemplating which way so I haven't bought the carb rebuild kits yet. They are so $$$$$ for this year of bike compared to the CV carbs.

For now, I just scored some Spitfire tires from motorcycle superstore for under $130, shipped free. I have to find out what kind of chain we need too. Any help on that?

It's time to really get the engine scrubbed up a bit so we can see what all was leaking. Simple Green did nothing. I gotta get some welder's tooth brushes and a really good grease/oil cutter.

I'm looking at wires and caps too since these are crap. I think I can have the slightly used ones off of Kit's bike, since she went to iridium. I'm okay with original type plugs.

I want to send off the rotor and stator next month to get rebuilt if I can find the extra $$. I already know they are bad. We took the ones from this bike to be rebuilt, put them on Kit's and now have to get those done to put on Samson. Kit's bike is a whole new bike, charging wise. The R/R is good on this bike but Kit's now charges at idle with the new one from the oregon guy. I like that.

Alright, off to watch the new harry Potter movie...

manjisann · « **Reply #99 on:** July 19, 2009, 06:15:41 PM »

Let me know if you decide to keep the carbs, I am keeping the carbs from my spare parts bike (I just can't bring myself to sell them!) if the part you need is the same on mine I'm sure we could work something out.

Brandon

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Author Topic: It's all Kit's fault - a.k.a. Another 1980 CB650C Resto... (Read 15903 times)