Author Topic: It's all Kit's fault - a.k.a. Another 1980 CB650C Resto... (Read 15904 times)

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #50 on:** March 25, 2009, 01:22:22 PM »

Quote from: Kit on March 25, 2009, 01:18:52 PM

lol. fine, be that way.

if I sent you our old one, it might take awhile before I get around to 'brakes' cuz now we're doing 'motor/carbs' but eventually...

Might take me a while to get it finished. Has to be pretty smooth for that and 754 hasn't chimed in yet on the best material to use.

I'd say plastic..... but screw that. And aluminum would be sweet, but I don't feel like having it fail you know?

So take your time, and I'll be ready if you need me.

754 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 25, 2009, 08:11:39 PM »

356 is a casting alloy, not sold in bar form. T6 is the temper.

Plain aluminum might work 6061 or 7075 , Harley used it on their banana calipers. I think anodized is prefferable, but pita for only a few parts...

I think with any brake fluid better than Dot 3, or any non-hygroscopic type you will be oK..

I am thinking, what always kills them is water..

Hush · « **Reply #52 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:39:40 PM »

OK I'm going to show my ignorance in public but I just can't figure out this JB weld stuff?
I hear the guys on here joking about the stuff and I thought it was a form of electric welding I didn't know about but you mention some stuff coming out of a tube?
Are we talking ARALDITE which to us Kiwis is a form of two part mix glue which you can repair crank cases with or anything for that matter?

754 · « **Reply #53 on:** March 25, 2009, 09:46:22 PM »

They are probably VERY similar....

this ARALDITEVEGIMITE.. and the OZ version... WANKERWELD......

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>754 >>>>running>>>>>>>>>>

MikeB · « **Reply #54 on:** March 25, 2009, 11:40:15 PM »

wankerweld

I can only imagine lol

Here you go Hush comes in diff. versions
http://jbweld.net/products/index.php

Frankenkit · « **Reply #55 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:01:03 AM »

So! took off the left engine cover (sprocket and oil pump cover) and alternator cover. The oil pump has been rebuilt, and the cap (the plate facing outward) was apparently leaking a little so it was painted with high-temp silicone. All the plugs appeared new, with some VERY slight grey going up the side of the ceramic on the center two, making me think they were burning a little cooler. The other two appeared not to have been fired on much at all, which figures, because the coil going to them was cracked.

Still having oil seepage problems, def. up top from the rubber gaskets, but put a diaper (rolled up bit of shop toweling) between the fins where the head gasket is. Tucked it in nice and tight, and if it's still weeping from there (without compression) we'll see, for sure. Most of the oil seemed to be down the front and on the left (downhill when on a kickstand) side, so I'm not sure. The PO tried to tell us it was fork oil flying back onto the motor, because the forks need to be rebuilt. ...I can't possibly imagine how that could be so unless those forks were SPRAYING.

's'pose I could've cranked it over a few times just to pump oil around while I had the starter motor in it...

Took the starter motor out to make sure there wasn't a lot of play in it. That, too, is 'new' to this bike, a tape strip on it proclaiming the type of bike it's meant for, salvage yard style. I get the feeling the PO certainly tried to do what he could, what he could afford, to get this bike done and running. He did, however, have an unnerving affinity for tightening the everloving p!ss out of every bolt he could get his hands on, though. Oh well.

The timing cover is busted

but the bottom case is just fine, not deformed or anything. We're looking for a replacement cover (Honda wants $200!) but I might just try to beat this one back into shape. I like frustrating myself with the impossible.

I think that's it for now. Going to take some varying degrees of sand paper to the sprocket and alternator cover. I think we're going for a matte, pearlescent aluminum look, once I get past the ugly spider webbing.

Inkscars · « **Reply #56 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:06:04 AM »

WHEW!

Now that's a project. You're doing good though, at this rate you'll have built yourself a new bike before the weather breaks here long enough for me to finish my seat. hahaha

Frankenkit · « **Reply #57 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:19:06 AM »

Just doin' everything that's 'free'. Still waiting on funds for carb kits (all the rubber stuff needs replaced) and I suspect we're getting a full-on Athena gasket kit (but I want to make sure the head gasket isn't leaking... I'd rather not do that sh!t if I don't have to) replacing rubber gaskets is one thing. head gasket is entirely another.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #58 on:** March 26, 2009, 08:36:09 AM »

HEEEERE are the pics. Cuz I'm running out of free stuff to do, comfy here with my coffee, and don't wanna go anywhere.
I started with taking the carbs out, b/c I do that pretty well. Lots of practice.

From a lousy experience earlier, I always now remember to drain the carbs before removing them. Brilliant!

Gasoline or urine sample?

I'm taking all over bike shots and what do I see? Sharpie saying "These carbs are new to me!"

Carbs got ripped out, then I pulled out the airbox. Found two things 'wrong' with this picture. The boot came partway off, leaning it out a bit, and none of the crank case breather tubes were attached at all. yay.

Saw why these carbs might be new. SOMEONE in the bike's history had major issues trying to get carbs out. ...or just issues... or something.

here's the clean-ish, dry aircleaner box, because none of those breather tubes were freakin' attached.

Here's the filter, which appears clean aside from spider corpses:

So, that's done. Now just a couple pics from 'around'.
First: My igniters dun melted, all over my air cleaner top.

Varying degrees of seepy-drippy:

From da left (and my #$%*in' chucks)

From da right (sans chucks)

The good news, apparently, is that the bike was garaged for a good bit of its life. The bad news, is that no one ever freakin' washed it.

'k that's it for now.

Soos · « **Reply #59 on:** March 26, 2009, 09:39:06 AM »

Quote from: 754 on March 25, 2009, 08:11:39 PM

356 is a casting alloy, not sold in bar form. T6 is the temper.

Plain aluminum might work 6061 or 7075 , Harley used it on their banana calipers. I think anodized is prefferable, but pita for only a few parts...

I think with any brake fluid better than Dot 3, or any non-hygroscopic type you will be oK..

I am thinking, what always kills them is water..

Quote

Havoc, there is a leaded grade of stainless, much easier to machine, just make sure its compatible to brake fluid.

316L would work I would think.
Why not some better quality stainless steel, hasteloy, nimonic, waspaloy, monel, inconel or the like?
Perhaps with a coating of stellite over the whole thing to permanently remove the corrosion problem? (Work wants me to train to weld? I gotta work on something!)
I ask because I could easily fab one up.

You got a dual or single disk setup?
A single I could sling out pretty easily I have 2 sets of those laying around.
duals.... The set I'm running are off a '79DOHC, so even if they were off, I couldn't guarantee they would work for you.
PM me if interested in me doing one up for you.
If you would prefer aluminum I think I have some 6061, and work does have a clear hard anodizing system I could use.

Should've told me your housing is busted....

I would have sold you one of me spares for cheap, and could have shipped with the tubes..

BTW, those are in the mail.

l8r

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #60 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:09:28 AM »

Well if you have everything in one place.... go for it. I'd have to go to a couple of places to get material and anodized.

Either way.

Frankenkit · « **Reply #61 on:** March 26, 2009, 10:23:06 AM »

Thanx 'n spanks for the tube, Soos!

Both the bikes are single-disk setup. My piston's corroded and pitted in places but I just reused it due to impatience. I'm now rethinking it b/c my brake line is way too long, anyway, so there are a couple things I could fix at the same time.

I'll leave the material up to you, I just need assurance that the piston won't fail under normal and hard braking- Oregon has its share of hilly/twisty roads and we need to be sure they'll be okay.

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #62 on:** March 26, 2009, 11:13:22 AM »

originals are what? just chrome plated standard soft right?

So why not just take 6061 and polish the crap outta it and then hard anodize?

Soos · « **Reply #63 on:** March 27, 2009, 08:44:19 AM »

Yeah thats an option... But when I have access to all kinds of drops, why not use something that is more stable as far as thermal distortion?
I would hate to have to figure out the thermal expansion rate of aluminum VS mild steel(yeah it looks to be a chromed and ground OD) and make the adjustments to the final part based on that.
It is just a simple part when you look at it... And a thou or 2 might not matter(and probably doesn't)....
However I am going to mimic the stocker unit to the tenth.(or at least the 2 I got...)

But the way I see it, Kit is willing to let me take her life in my hands with this part.
If it fails, she could die.(think of a suddenly failing front brake and a need to stop NOW)
Failure IS NOT an option.
I don't want to even think of it sticking when it gets hot after a long downhill, or when cool leaks.....
Aluminum would probably work, some 6061 would do well... but aluminum really starts to show it's benefits of mechanical properties when cold, not hot.
Hot it tends to loose strength and distort quicker than steels.
Cold steels become brittle, when aluminum gets cold, it's mechanical properties become even better strangely enough.

Not trying to knock you there HavocTurbo, just want to let you know WHY i would not choose aluminum as a primary choice.
Not that it wouldn't work, just not the best option out there IMO.

Anyways.....
I've stashed a piece of duplex stainless I'm thinking would be great for this application.
Some of the properties...
http://www.sandmeyersteel.com/duplex-super-duplex.html
And another neat site on Why use Duplex over other stainless materials.
http://www.thefabricator.com/MetalsMaterials/MetalsMaterials_Article.cfm?ID=1550

Now phenolic is a good option(I just don't have access to free material) it has very low heat distortion, and takes the pressure VERY well, as well as being lighter than steel for the same part.
And corrosion resistance to the brake fluid... well I don't think Phenolic can pit... can it?
Dunno, no real experience with it.

edited to make it sound like i'm not a complete a@@hole.....

l8r

754 · « **Reply #64 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:15:37 AM »

Dang, I forgot 2024 Aluminum is better choice at elevated temps..
I am slipping, getting old.

Soos · « **Reply #65 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:36:05 AM »

True, but 2024 has one of the worst corrosion resistances of the aluminum materials...
http://www.alcoa.com/mill_products/catalog/pdf/alloy2024techsheet.pdf

l8r

754 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:43:33 AM »

That is why there are so many diff alloys..

Like I said.. good brakefluid without water should not hurt it. its always the water that kills them.
and dont park it in the ocean..

Myself I prefer dot 5 or anything I dont have to worry about killing paint..

HavocTurbo · « **Reply #67 on:** March 27, 2009, 10:03:50 AM »

Soos man chill out. No offence taken here. Like I told 754, I'm a machinist sure... but not a metallurgist. I don't know jack about the right material with the right properties. That's why I was asking.

I could bang 10,000 of em out no problem by tomorrow, but if they aren't the right stuff... I wouldn't know the difference. That's my biggest downfall. Something I'm trying to rectify.

So don't worry man. I would never cut something without researching the best stuff to cut. Hence why I brought up the subject in the first place.

Besides.... Now I know what would be a better starting option

MickeyX · « **Reply #68 on:** March 28, 2009, 11:21:21 AM »

How's about we get the thing running before we worry about stopping it...

Heading out to the cycle salvage place today. There's no use in going for a ride since it's so nasty out. We have to get there early cuz they tend to close before their posted hours. I guess they get bored. Just looking to see what we may be able to find for this one and then back home to test out the electrics of the other bike. I feel like I'm on a merry-go-round.

MickeyX · « **Reply #69 on:** March 30, 2009, 08:36:56 PM »

So, when we started pulling off parts to check, we found that the coils were cracked and shot. I just got these off of fleabay... $24 with shipping. I hope they are good like they say they are. Of course, they give rebates so it's worth a try.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220386261128

We checked the rotor too and it's a goner. Need to check a few more things in the charging system but really can't until we can get it running. I have feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg....

Just wondering, if the rotor is bad (basically no resistance), what could it have taken with it when it went poof?

MikeB · « **Reply #70 on:** March 30, 2009, 10:44:51 PM »

Hi Micky

when I got mine the rotor and the R/R were both gone (think the charging sys. is the same on all these bikes

)

don't know if one took out the other or

the PO said he replaced the stator and it looked new, so it must have been bad to

think that would be quite a coincidence if all 3 quit at the same time if one didn't have an
effect on the others

wish I could be more help

good luck with the new bike

Hush · « **Reply #71 on:** March 31, 2009, 12:24:55 AM »

Nice set of pipes on that auction too.

MickeyX · « **Reply #72 on:** April 04, 2009, 08:21:46 AM »

Yeah, I saw those. Thanks but we already have a pretty decent set of 4-4s on it. I'm thinking in other directions... Kit may end up with these as a spare set.

Where would I find some aftermarket hand controls that would fit this bike? Instead of the original turn/horn/on/off... switches. Also, I really love the look of the rubber fork boots on bikes. Anybody got a guy that sells them? And if I want to respoke some rims? Gonna eventually switch these comstars for Kit's spokes and respoke/retrue them. If Kit's are too far gone, as far as rust, I will find some other donors. I like the look of a powdercoated black rim and center with chrome spokes.

I already have a guy in mind for the seat setup. He did Kit's seat and we will be giving him our business again. He's local, as in, within 50mi. I'm thinking pull the seat foam, sculpt some high density, azz huggin' foam and do more of a drag looking seat, slightly tapered on the rear. Can't go too far tapering cuz these bikes are so wide, it just wouldn't flow. I would have gone the cafe look but with this dip in the seat, I just don't think it would look right. I think we will carry the seat over to him on the back of one of our running bikes and mock it on Kit's CB650. Another excuse for a biker/campout weekend in the mountains.

I have a feeling this one is gonna take 3 years too.

Hush · « **Reply #73 on:** April 05, 2009, 03:48:23 AM »

3 years on a 30 year old bike, no biggie.

MickeyX · « **Reply #74 on:** April 05, 2009, 02:04:39 PM »

I really like the engine case guards that Kit put on her bike. I saw some new ones on ebay a few days ago and came home early from my ride a little while ago to see if I won them. I did!

$83 with s/h.

I really like the way they hug the engine but will still be a really good guard. Now I just have to get it running.

As far as I can tell, the rotor is a goner (at 1st check 1.2 ohms across the rings but I will clean them better today and check again), not sure about the stator yet, the CDI leaked all over the bike but I'm not too sure how to test it (gonna look that up tonight). I'm thinking this is what sends power to the coils?

Need new plug wires and caps, got the new coils in this past week. I need to check the R/R too. *sigh* And it begins...

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Author Topic: It's all Kit's fault - a.k.a. Another 1980 CB650C Resto... (Read 15904 times)