Topic: Beat me or Ban me; It just doesn't matter anymore!

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah ed, he might not even be here. Nice way of telling someone you don't care.
No wonder you fear communism and socialism so much. you refuse to help anyone but yourself.

[kslrr]

Yeah ed, he might not even be here. Nice way of telling someone you don't care.
No wonder you fear communism and socialism so much. you refuse to help anyone but yourself.

Communism and socialism is not about helping anyone.  It's about the few controlling the many.

[Uncle Ernie]

Just checking in...
I still don't get why conservatives aren't just as upset with corporate welfare? 
Is it so big it disappears?

[edbikerii]

No Eldar, that's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying.  Fear is what drives the masses to the "government protection" of marxism.  Bravery is what gets drug addicts to quit.  You enable an addict to go on using, they will go on using.  If you make it hard for them, then they might just find a way to quit.

Yeah ed, he might not even be here. Nice way of telling someone you don't care.
No wonder you fear communism and socialism so much. you refuse to help anyone but yourself.

[Caaveman82]

Funny Caaveman, how your indoctrinated, backward, marxist logic causes you to view the socialist programs that enabled your mother to be a "lazy drug-addict" and prolonged your agony until you were twelve years old as beneficial.

You are right, if those programs didn't exist, you wouldn't be where you are today.  You might have gone to live with your father much sooner, and you might have been much better off.

BTW, I'm not knocking you or your upbringing.  I had similarly difficult circumstances as a child.

If you want to take it out of that context that is fine.

You can't choose your parents. I was playing with the hand I was delt. I guess you see the program as an enabler, I see it as it enabled me to live in a house instead of on the street.

Although my father is the better of the two, he is no gem either. So I wouldn't jump to conclusions too fast about me being better off than where I am now. I have fought every sterotype of being a welfare kid and poor to get where I am at today. While I am not rocking a brand new car or a nice flashy house with plastic siding that makes it easier to clean, with a nice two or three car garage, I am doing okay. I am in fact in school, I've got an above average GPA, I'm working a full time job, I've got a nice reliable car from the 90's, and an awesome bike from the 70's. Do I want more? Sure, who doesn't. Can I live without it? Absolutely. Do I get sore at the fact that I could have bought a brand new car in the last five years for what I shilled out in taxes? Nope.

While the socialist programs enable some people to do dirty things and become nothing, there are those out there who were citizens that were putting money in the pot and something happened for one reason or another that put them where they are. Sure a lot of mistakes are avoidable, in hindesight. Those are the people that enable me to want to support these programs.

It's really a horse a piece Ed.

If you look at anything you can find the up side and down side of it all. It just depends on what light you want to use to look at it I guess. I justify my money being raped from me via taxes in a positive and optimistic light. You are the reverse of that.

Different strokes man, different strokes.

[shacolaid]

Just checking in...
I still don't get why conservatives aren't just as upset with corporate welfare? 
Is it so big it disappears?

Exactly. So why did the government, both democrats and republicans, give $700 billion to the banks, the auto industry and other corporations.

[Caaveman82]

No Eldar, that's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying.  Fear is what drives the masses to the "government protection" of marxism.  Bravery is what gets drug addicts to quit.  You enable an addict to go on using, they will go on using.  If you make it hard for them, then they might just find a way to quit.

Yeah ed, he might not even be here. Nice way of telling someone you don't care.
No wonder you fear communism and socialism so much. you refuse to help anyone but yourself.

Ed, enable them to kill themselves I say. Better off without....

[Duke McDukiedook]

Just checking in...
I still don't get why conservatives aren't just as upset with corporate welfare? 
Is it so big it disappears?

Exactly. So why did the government, both democrats and republicans, give $700 billion to the banks, the auto industry and other corporations.

Fascism anyone, anyone??

[Inigo Montoya]

Confusing me too huh ed.
I guess since caaveman does not agree with you, he is eldar too right? Same with anyone else who doesn't agree with you?

Way to go Columbo!

[Demon67]

Guys it doesn't make any difference what you call it, capitalism, communism, fascism after a certain point the systems will control you and what is the difference between government, large corporations, and the collectives control at least and the very least, capitalism as we know it tends to give the illusion of the people mattering ( so they can sell more goods and make money), as far as people whining about communism and all it's evils, it seems to me, that if you substitute you own bogey man for communism they will fall prey to the same evils.
The rich get richer and the others take it up the ass. As far as I can see, from experience, greed doesn't get you every thing you need to be happy. Yes Ed, I have restrained myself, nobly I might add.
Bill the demon.

[Caaveman82]

Guys it doesn't make any difference what you call it, capitalism, communism, fascism after a certain point the systems will control you and what is the difference between government, large corporations, and the collectives control at least and the very least, capitalism as we know it tends to give the illusion of the people mattering ( so they can sell more goods and make money), as far as people whining about communism and all it's evils, it seems to me, that if you substitute you own bogey man for communism they will fall prey to the same evils.
The rich get richer and the others take it up the ass. As far as I can see, from experience, greed doesn't get you every thing you need to be happy. Yes Ed, I have restrained myself, nobly I might add.
Bill the demon.

Here here.

[TwoTired]

Is there any form of government that doesn't march slowly or quickly toward the enslavement (either directly or economic) of the general populace?

[Markcb750]

Is there any form of government that doesn't march slowly or quickly toward the enslavement (either directly or economic) of the general populace?

Is Anarchy a form of government? 

[Caaveman82]

Is there any form of government that doesn't march slowly or quickly toward the enslavement (either directly or economic) of the general populace?

Is Anarchy a form of government? 

That depends on which version you look at.

There is a form of Anarchy that deconstructs the government down to a community level.

[TwoTired]

Is there any form of government that doesn't march slowly or quickly toward the enslavement (either directly or economic) of the general populace?

Is Anarchy a form of government? 

Not according to merriam-webster.com...
1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

[billybobobrain]

Is there any form of government that doesn't march slowly or quickly toward the enslavement (either directly or economic) of the general populace?

Is Anarchy a form of government? 

Not according to merriam-webster.com...
1 a: absence of government b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

I vote for C.

[DammitDan]

Has anyone considered the fact that Capitalism was designed in the days of local and regional communication?

Distance is what kept Capitalism alive in the past.  Distance from competitors, distance from other branches, distance from consumers...  It allowed a free market to thrive because there was no real way for a company to become "too big to fail."  Then came telephones, fax machines, credit cards and the Internet.

So what happens when a capitalist corporation (in business for its own self interest) obtains instantaneous global mass communication?  With global mass communication the "line in the sand" is gone.  Notice, there are no more "mom and pop" stores, it's all Wal-Mart.  It's now the mega corporations competing on a global scale.  It truly is "big business".  This means that the "little guy" will get trampled for the interest of big business, every time.

So I ask, what's wrong with changing with the times and allowing government protection for the interest of the people?

[Markcb750]

I am with you Dan.  Until Version C of TT's definitions come true.


We need some rules to keep the ethically challenged from stealing the eggs, the hen, the rooster and the freakin coop. 

[masonryman]

So I ask, what's wrong with changing with the times and allowing government protection for the interest of the people?

I quit reading this thread several days ago when I got attacked for a similar sentiment. Small businesses and the self employed need some protection or the corner welding shop and hardware store will be gone forever.

As a Bricklayer, contractor, I find myself being forced backward everyday by imported and cheap untrained labor who don't care about morals or the law. It's not the lobor's fault, the blame goes to the contractors that hire them and the government for letting them.

[Markcb750]

So I ask, what's wrong with changing with the times and allowing government protection for the interest of the people?

I quit reading this thread several days ago when I got attacked for a similar sentiment. Small businesses and the self employed need some protection or the corner welding shop and hardware store will be gone forever.

As a Bricklayer, contractor, I find myself being forced backward everyday by imported and cheap untrained labor who don't care about morals or the law. It's not the lobor's fault, the blame goes to the contractors that hire them and the government for letting them.

+1


It has been awful to watch what skilled people can earn because this.  And we all keep voting the same people who set this up back into office!

We be stupid.

[TwoTired]

So I ask, what's wrong with changing with the times and allowing government protection for the interest of the people?

I quit reading this thread several days ago when I got attacked for a similar sentiment. Small businesses and the self employed need some protection or the corner welding shop and hardware store will be gone forever.

As a Bricklayer, contractor, I find myself being forced backward everyday by imported and cheap untrained labor who don't care about morals or the law. It's not the lobor's fault, the blame goes to the contractors that hire them and the government for letting them.

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

[masonryman]

So I ask, what's wrong with changing with the times and allowing government protection for the interest of the people?

I quit reading this thread several days ago when I got attacked for a similar sentiment. Small businesses and the self employed need some protection or the corner welding shop and hardware store will be gone forever.

As a Bricklayer, contractor, I find myself being forced backward everyday by imported and cheap untrained labor who don't care about morals or the law. It's not the lobor's fault, the blame goes to the contractors that hire them and the government for letting them.

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

Your jumping to conclusions again,
I want everybody to pay the same  tax % as me
I want an end put to frivolous laws suits,
I want an end put to free health care for illegal aliens who don't pay taxes
I want an end put to my $5.65 per hour worked insurance premiums when I have a 10,000 deductible
I should not have to pay unemployment taxes when I can not draw it.
I should not have to pay workers comp ins when I can not draw it

If everyboy played by the rules set forth by our government I would have no problem with the rules but many do not and I have no intentions of lowering my standards to the crooks of this world

[billybobobrain]

So I ask, what's wrong with changing with the times and allowing government protection for the interest of the people?

I quit reading this thread several days ago when I got attacked for a similar sentiment. Small businesses and the self employed need some protection or the corner welding shop and hardware store will be gone forever.

As a Bricklayer, contractor, I find myself being forced backward everyday by imported and cheap untrained labor who don't care about morals or the law. It's not the lobor's fault, the blame goes to the contractors that hire them and the government for letting them.

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

Your jumping to conclusions again,
I want everybody to pay the same  tax % as me
I want an end put to frivolous laws suits,
I want an end put to free health care for illegal aliens who don't pay taxes
I want an end put to my $5.65 per hour worked insurance premiums when I have a 10,000 deductible
I should not have to pay unemployment taxes when I can not draw it.
I should not have to pay workers comp ins when I can not draw it

If everyboy played by the rules set forth by our government I would have no problem with the rules but many do not and I have no intentions of lowering my standards to the crooks of this world

As far as unemployment goes, if you pay in you collect. The catch for a business owner is in order to collect you have to close your business. With workers comp if you pay you collect. With both of these you have to pay on yourself, if you're only paying on your employees then you cannot collect, because you didn't pay into it for youself.

[masonryman]

In Indiana you can not benefit from a liability suite where you were the responsible party, as the contractor your are allways the responsible party for the employee even if the accident was caused by a third party because you brought them to the situation.

There is a wavier you can get from your ins co. to exclude yourself paying comp on yourself but most PM's won't accept it.  As far as the unemployment goes, the last two times I applied I was rejected

[upperlake04]

  oh oh