Topic: Beat me or Ban me; It just doesn't matter anymore!

[billybobobrain]

These types of threads are really quite pointless...you criticize the current President but offer no solutions as an alternative. Easy enough to demonize someone and become fearful, paranoid and invoke some mysterious conspiracy theory or doomsday scenario,  but a lot harder to come up with some real workable solutions.

As someone else pointed out Obama has been in the office 2 months and you expect what? Everything to be fixed? 

Right...time to go for a ride as this is a motorcycle forum afterall....not a whiners forum

cheers
Andy

Well I just can't hold my tounge on this one...... Has anyone read the constitution? "Conspiracy theory" there is no theory only fact. read some books, and the constitution... Do you understand it? Have you read it? Obviously not. go to your local college and talk with a constitutional law professor, learn about it and then come back and lie about there not being a conspiracy.

[Duke McDukiedook]

This is the open forums last time I checked- we can discuss what we please in here.

Yeah, Bachman is a certified nut, what can you say.

It's funny that all the pro-republican talking heads conveniently forgot the last administration ran up the deficit more than all the previous presidents combined and blame it all on a guy that just got in office.

I still don't have a lot of trust in this administration though, not a whole lot different than the last if you ask me.
 

[Duke McDukiedook]

Andy, I did offer a solution if you read my post- a good start would be to end the "Federal" Reserve Bank system. That would be a good start.

[heffay]

i think this is one of those threads that i'm supposed to stay out of. 

but, i'm sure it will help me w/ my ignore list.   

[billybobobrain]

i think this is one of those threads that i'm supposed to stay out of. 

but, i'm sure it will help me w/ my ignore list.   

Try as you might, you will get sucked into the vortex of politics. Resistance is futile.

[billybobobrain]

At least everyone who posts on these kind of topics cares about there country, as long as we come out friends who cares.

[sangyo soichiro]

The problem with governments is that they're full of politicians....

[HavocTurbo]

i think this is one of those threads that i'm supposed to stay out of. 

but, i'm sure it will help me w/ my ignore list.   

Try as you might, you will get sucked into the vortex of politics. Resistance is futile.

I have yet to offer my opinion Billy. Probably never will. Nothing harder for me than to try to describe the goings on in my brain over the internet.

[Caaveman82]

Two things.

Number one: The quote that Libertarians are just republicans that want to smoke dope and get laid is from the Thom Heartman program. Which is another form of angry white guy radio...

Number two: Playing the blame game is exactly what is keeping people occupied so they cannot concentrate on things that actually matter. Do we all know who's fault this is? Yes... Is making sure everyone is on the same page on who to blame going to fix anything? No...

     The economy is like an engine. It's a lot easier to take apart then it is to put it back together. I am not a big fan of Obama. I am a patriot though and because he IS THE ELECTED PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA... I will stand behind him. The majority has always elected the president, this one is nothing new. You don't have to LIKE him, but if you were one of the people that was defending Bush after 9/11 saying "You have to stand behind your president!". Then heed your own words.

[shacolaid]

No, it does matter, at least I think it does. And I want it to matter for my children and hopefully their children. 
There are things that really concern me, but rather get into a long protracted response, I will just post some definitions, and you all tell me which direction the US is headed.  From Webster's:

 Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism 
Date: 1877
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Main Entry: so·cial·ism 
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Main Entry: com·mu·nism 
Date: 1840
1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2capitalized a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d: communist systems collectively

[cherry bomb]

geez...you sure did figure out who is causing all the problems in the grand ol' US of A quick!! Why is it taking so long for you to diagnose my carb issue?

I remember when I was in college I had a 3.6 GPA...I partied a little to hard for a couple of semesters and flunked some classes...I  spent the rest of my college career trying to fix it.

[BeSeeingYou]

I would say it is not so cut a dried as these definitions.  Many countries have differing combinations of capitalism and socialism mixed together and the U.S. is no exception.  The U.S. leans much more to the capitalism side and maybe that will change to some degree.  How much is debatable.  To think that we will jump from capitalism to socialism is pure fantasy. I don't think Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto will become required reading or Lincoln's statue will be replaced by one of Lenin.

[oldbiker]

Think yourself lucky that they don't replace Lincoln's statue with one of Gordon Brown. Just look what he has done to the UK.

[ev0lve]

No, it does matter, at least I think it does. And I want it to matter for my children and hopefully their children. 
There are things that really concern me, but rather get into a long protracted response, I will just post some definitions, and you all tell me which direction the US is headed.  From Webster's:

 Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism 
Date: 1877
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Main Entry: so·cial·ism 
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Main Entry: com·mu·nism 
Date: 1840
1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2capitalized a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d: communist systems collectively

Anyone happen to watch this episode of Frontline a few weeks ago? It's a very nice quickie history of the meltdown. Strikingly it's also a little heart-breaking to watch Hank Paulson come to the conclusion that, at least in this case, his most cherished ideals won't work (or they would but the cost would be a global economic catastrophe).

Not about pure capitalism, socialism or communism. It's about keeping people in what jobs are left and the fairly simple mechanism is do the banks trust each other enough to loan money to each other given that they may all go tits up overnight in a cascade of contracts if just one of them can't pay. Rube Goldberg seriously had nothing on these guys.

It also explains pretty clearly why giving us all $80,000 a piece would do just about squat.

Worth the hour I think.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/meltdown/view/

[Duke McDukiedook]

You'll probably think I'm batsh1t crazy on this but I think this collapse was engineered.
These people knew they could get away with outright illegal betting and knew they could get the American taxpayers to foot the entire bill. And fund their lavish lives without skipping a heartbeat. You know what? Its working, meanwhile everyone is so pissed about the 160 million in bonuses to execs- folks that's the headfake to deceive you. Meanwhile the little man behind the curtain continues to pull the levers and Kazaaam! We'ere all in insane amounts of more and more debt. Your children, grandchildren, etc, etc.

Meanwhile they'll parade some poor fool through the streets and put them on some kangaroo trial so everybody will feel better because that one or two scapegoats gets to take the blame for everything.

And the mega bankers get more rich, and more powerful.

It's all a joke folks, and the joke's on you, all of you.

[Caaveman82]

No, it does matter, at least I think it does. And I want it to matter for my children and hopefully their children. 
There are things that really concern me, but rather get into a long protracted response, I will just post some definitions, and you all tell me which direction the US is headed.  From Webster's:

 Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism 
Date: 1877
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

Main Entry: so·cial·ism 
Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Main Entry: com·mu·nism 
Date: 1840
1 a: a theory advocating elimination of private property b: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed
2capitalized a: a doctrine based on revolutionary Marxian socialism and Marxism-Leninism that was the official ideology of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics b: a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production c: a final stage of society in Marxist theory in which the state has withered away and economic goods are distributed equitably d: communist systems collectively

Knowing who to blame matters? Why? Please explain...

Also, while we are mostly all about capitalism, there is a fundamental problem with it. It's not all about people, it's all about... capital. If it takes the government to hold most of the wealth for the people of this country to get looked after, then so be it. I tell you what... if your kid came up with cancer I would bet my left arm that some rich guy wouldn't walk up and hand you the money to pay for the hospital bills.

You'll probably think I'm batsh1t crazy on this but I think this collapse was engineered.
These people knew they could get away with outright illegal betting and knew they could get the American taxpayers to foot the entire bill. And fund their lavish lives without skipping a heartbeat. You know what? Its working, meanwhile everyone is so pissed about the 160 million in bonuses to execs- folks that's the headfake to deceive you. Meanwhile the little man behind the curtain continues to pull the levers and Kazaaam! We'ere all in insane amounts of more and more debt. Your children, grandchildren, etc, etc.

Meanwhile they'll parade some poor fool through the streets and put them on some kangaroo trial so everybody will feel better because that one or two scapegoats gets to take the blame for everything.

And the mega bankers get more rich, and more powerful.

It's all a joke folks, and the joke's on you, all of you.

I don't think your crazy. I don't think it was really intentional. All this money was made on money that didn't even exist. That was the base  of the problem, the other part of it was that they probably knew the implications and that is WHY they kept it going. Saying the whole time "We need to make as much as possible before this whole thing falls apart!".

[billybobobrain]

Look at whats going on in the world of money, we are being pushed into a remodel of the system. You cannot change a system unless its broken, so in order to get the system that the international bankers want they have to crush our monetary system. If and when they do the masses will cry out for the CHANGE, that's what Bush's roll was, to get the popular vote to cry out for change! That's what the current "reccesion" is about to get the people to cry out for change. Look these people don't look at things in terms of this election the look at it in terms of controll over the long run, lifetimes. There are a small group of families that controll all the money in the world, incidentally the also own the fed. How do you get billions of people to cry out for more controll and less freedom? Create a national crisis that's how.

Some light reading;

"The Shadows of Power" James Perloff (A look at how the Counsel on foreign relations controlls the government)
"None Dare call it Conspiracy" Gary Allen (A good book for you non believers)
"The Creature from Jekyll Island" G. Edward Griffin (How the fed works)
The US Constitution

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin

"Force is all-conquering, but its victory's are short lived"
Abraham Lincoln





 

[ev0lve]

There's more than a little hubris and arrogance involved in this on all sides. As to the conspiracy plots, I've never been able to reconcile what the end goal is (usually stated as a one world fascist government where we're all slaves - yay!).

This runs counter to the broad trends of the last hundred years or so I think.

Someone enunciate the goal and mechanisms involved in deliberately tanking the most profitable speculative bubble ever?

[ev0lve]

Look at whats going on in the world of money, we are being pushed into a remodel of the system. You cannot change a system unless its broken, so in order to get the system that the international bankers want they have to crush our monetary system. If and when they do the masses will cry out for the CHANGE, that's what Bush's roll was, to get the popular vote to cry out for change! That's what the current "reccesion" is about to get the people to cry out for change. Look these people don't look at things in terms of this election the look at it in terms of controll over the long run, lifetimes. There are a small group of families that controll all the money in the world, incidentally the also own the fed. How do you get billions of people to cry out for more controll and less freedom? Create a national crisis that's how.

Some light reading;

"The Shadows of Power" James Perloff (A look at how the Counsel on foreign relations controlls the government)
"None Dare call it Conspiracy" Gary Allen (A good book for you non believers)
"The Creature from Jekyll Island" G. Edward Griffin (How the fed works)
The US Constitution

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin

"Force is all-conquering, but its victory's are short lived"
Abraham Lincoln
 

So you don't believe there's a free-market at all? I still don't understand this small cabal's intergenerational plot to control the world. Most folks have a tough time getting their kids to do anything they might have in mind for them long-term. How do these guys keep that kind of family discipline?

Just pointing out the kind of problems I have with these ideas. It takes a lot of focus all the time. Humans generally make mistakes - kids don't want to do what Dad wants them to - and above ALL else secrets are hard to keep when there's more than 1 person involved.

Occam's Razor my friend.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Control, world dominance. These are people that swear no allegiance to any country and are above the laws of any courts in said countries.

These are people that determine where and when wars are fought, what countries debts are forgiven, what countries are on the dreaded "Axis of evil-doers" list.
Ever notice that the countries on the axis of evil-doers list were countries that were not part of the IMF and World Bank?

These people are ruthless capitalists, they would probably sell their mother's to pimps and rapists if they had the chance to make a buck off it. Calling them human is probably going a bit far, reptiles is more like it.

[Duke McDukiedook]

These people pulling the strings are not infallable Iggy, they make mistakes too.

How come the Bilderberg meeting that took place in Chantilly Virginia in 2008 was secret? Media blackout, the number and names of people not known to the public? Obama, Clinton and Kathleen Sebelius were all there. Why all the secrecy there? Even the G8 and G20 conferences are announced to media.

[ev0lve]

No question there's some shady stuff going on. The IMF is a tool to achieve ends and it is a small cabal of folks who control that.

Naomi Klein posits the Chicago School of Economics training of foreign nationals as economists then deployed to their home countries as sleepers waiting for a crisis to instigate their ruinous free-market ideologies. I'd view them as a movement in plain site. Paulson's mistakes documented in the Frontline link above are the same.

But, if it is a conspiracy, I'm willing to be convinced but I do not understand the end game and the connections between people, their disregard for the principles embodied in the constitution and their discipline in carrying out their orders is inhuman over the period of time we're talking about (100+ years).

I don't dispute the Bildebergers, Tri-Laterals etc existence. Only the weight of being able to sustain the effort over generations and keep it hidden (what with Kissinger spilling the beans all the time).

Coming off the gold standard - suspicious, especially with the players involved, but there's no dispute an economy the size of the US couldn't be sustained without it.

The IMF is and has been used to control the behavior of countries - but in line with a fairly ruthless free-market precept (you can have the loan if you privatize your water supply et al)

and others.

I'm more inclined to think of it as systemic and we're all culpable due to our natures. What I would like to see/read is documentation that doesn't ask me to jump from point A to C on faith.

It causes me some cognitive dissonance trying to make the goals jibe with the stated ideals.

The current crisis is much more understandable to me as the result of 30 years of ideas and ideologies taken to their limit than as a conspiracy meant to pay dividends in control, cash etc 10, 20, 100 years from now. Look at the market. These jokers can't see very far beyond the next quarter much less 100 years down the road. Dissonance.

[billybobobrain]

Look at whats going on in the world of money, we are being pushed into a remodel of the system. You cannot change a system unless its broken, so in order to get the system that the international bankers want they have to crush our monetary system. If and when they do the masses will cry out for the CHANGE, that's what Bush's roll was, to get the popular vote to cry out for change! That's what the current "reccesion" is about to get the people to cry out for change. Look these people don't look at things in terms of this election the look at it in terms of controll over the long run, lifetimes. There are a small group of families that controll all the money in the world, incidentally the also own the fed. How do you get billions of people to cry out for more controll and less freedom? Create a national crisis that's how.

Some light reading;

"The Shadows of Power" James Perloff (A look at how the Counsel on foreign relations controlls the government)
"None Dare call it Conspiracy" Gary Allen (A good book for you non believers)
"The Creature from Jekyll Island" G. Edward Griffin (How the fed works)
The US Constitution

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both"
Benjamin Franklin

"Force is all-conquering, but its victory's are short lived"
Abraham Lincoln
 

So you don't believe there's a free-market at all? I still don't understand this small cabal's intergenerational plot to control the world. Most folks have a tough time getting their kids to do anything they might have in mind for them long-term. How do these guys keep that kind of family discipline?

Just pointing out the kind of problems I have with these ideas. It takes a lot of focus all the time. Humans generally make mistakes - kids don't want to do what Dad wants them to - and above ALL else secrets are hard to keep when there's more than 1 person involved.

Occam's Razor my friend.

Money and Power my friend, The founder of the Bank of England, Sir Nathen Rothschild. The current owner of the Bank of England, Nathan Rothschild the 3rd or fourth might even be the second but you get the point, The Bank of England is the majority holder of the Federal Reserve Bank. Look it up.

You are right "Occam's Razor" it's that simple "Money and Power". The goal is the same as Hitler, the ultimate controll by the perfect race, they just realize it takes more then a few years to make it happen, they have been at it for a couple hundred years. They are succeeding.

Here is another book you can read:

"Change Agents in the Schools" Barbara Morris (How all of you have been brainwashed)

I doubt that any of you will acctualy read the books I have suggested but hey, ignorance is bliss. If you can't see it it isn't there right? Wrong it is more dangerous because you have been conditioned not to see it.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, Rothschild tried to have Jackson assassinated about 30 times, he (Jackson) would not allow a federal bank during his presidency. Kennedy wanted to put us to the greenback like Lincoln tried to, look what happened to him.

[billybobobrain]

Are you aware that Bush Sr. was the head of the CIA at the time of the Kenedy assassination? It has been speculated that he was there and headed the whole operation. Also his dad, Prescott funded the Nazi's. It was in a documentory I watched a while back, I wish I could find it, it has a lot of facts that point out clearly what happend, but Nickson was also involved.