Author Topic: The most important vehicle in 100yrs! (Read 5435 times)

PJ · « **on:** March 29, 2009, 09:47:49 AM »

It's finally a reality and it runs on the most abundant element in the universe, Hydrogen based vehicles NOT on Youtube... and we may live to own something similar.

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/

Duke McDukiedook · « **Reply #1 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:02:08 AM »

And I thought it was a Humv... silly me.

Gordon · « **Reply #2 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:16:34 AM »

Yep. That's the direction cars are heading. The main benefit that actually makes the fuel cell an acceptable alternative to the gas/diesel engine is that it doesn't require the consumer to change much of anything about their current car usage habits. Or at least it won't once you can fill up with hydrogen at the corner gas station.

Now we just have to start producing hydrogen by using renewable resources instead of propane.

Ryan 550k · « **Reply #3 on:** March 29, 2009, 10:22:55 AM »

Wow, this really is a time of some significant change.

gerhed · « **Reply #4 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:06:36 PM »

IMHO hydrogen technology gave the automakers a reprieve from actually doing something
about increasing the efficiency of their vehicles.
They all said "hey we're working on hydrogen--no emissions"
and then after screwing around for several years came
out with the Escalade Hybrid etc.--please !

Markcb750 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:15:09 PM »

The problem is, and will continue to be, the most abundant element in the Universe, Hydrogen, is also one of the rarest pure elements on the planet, virtually 100% of it is chemically bonded to some thing else, like oxygen.

It takes more energy to liberate it from its chemical bond then one can retrieve in recombining it. Most production schemes produce it from oil. This just puts the problem in someone elses backyard.

Building nuclear power plants to electrolyze water would work, but the half educated among us are afraid of nuclear.

Just an old engineers observation. Nice car though.

Gordon · « **Reply #6 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:16:40 PM »

Quote from: gerhed on March 29, 2009, 12:06:36 PM

IMHO hydrogen technology gave the automakers a reprieve from actually doing something
about increasing the efficiency of their vehicles.
They all said "hey we're working on hydrogen--no emissions"
and then after screwing around for several years came
out with the Escalade Hybrid etc.--please !

I agree. The whole hybrid thing really turned out to be a bust. Technology that had the potential to significantly increase fuel economy ended up being used mainly to increase the performance of the vehicles it was used in. Once people realized that electric motors have more torque and can make their cars accelerate faster than the same car with the standard gas engine, they decided that was more important to them than getting better fuel mileage.

Hybrids can either be made to get great mileage, or go really fast, and unfortunately when given the choice, most people would rather go fast.

Gordon · « **Reply #7 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:30:51 PM »

Quote from: Markcb750 on March 29, 2009, 12:15:09 PM

Building nuclear power plants to electrolyze water would work, but the half educated among us are afraid of nuclear.

I don't get it either. I realize there have been nuclear power mishaps, but it's nothing compared to the environmental damage caused and lives lost in the name of oil. I guess most people just can't separate the idea of a thermonuclear weapon from the idea of a power plant. And then there's the people who, when confronted with the idea of a hydrogen fuel cell powered car, say "I would never drive one of those, have you ever heard of a hydrogen bomb?".

The ignorance is strong.

On another note, when the hell are they gonna figure out that whole nuclear fusion thing?

Markcb750 · « **Reply #8 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:39:27 PM »

Quote from: Gordon on March 29, 2009, 12:30:51 PM

On another note, when the hell are they gonna figure out that whole nuclear fusion thing?

Damn I wish I knew... Been hearing "close" for thirty years.

Read the other day that the infamous "cold fusion" has some new advocates, no one I know takes cold fusion seriously. My exposure to people working on this stuff is more limited then it was when I was building machines for them.

Gordon · « **Reply #9 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:46:30 PM »

Quote from: Markcb750 on March 29, 2009, 12:39:27 PM

Damn I wish I knew... Been hearing "close" for thirty years.

Read the other day that the infamous "cold fusion" has some new advocates, no one I know takes cold fusion seriously. My exposure to people working on this stuff is more limited then it was when I was building machines for them.

I remember when I was a kid, there was this big "breaking news" story that scientists at some university had achieved cold fusion, and then later on it all turned out to be a sham and all they had accomplished was a chemical reaction. Very disappointing.

Markcb750 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 29, 2009, 12:48:24 PM »

I think they where at Utah.

333 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 29, 2009, 04:49:08 PM »

The issue with nuclear is more of what to do with the waste than the safety.

I have seen the hydrogen powered Chevrolet Equinox at the 2007 auto show here in D.C. But seeing one and knowing it actually goes down the road are two different things. But I recently read an article in a car magazine about a road trip the author was allowed to do over a couple days(finding hydrogen filling stations and all). After reading that article, it seems the major stumbling block now is those pesky filling stations.

Markcb750 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:14:11 PM »

I have a great retort, but little point. We are up against people's beliefs not facts.

Gordon · « **Reply #13 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:16:22 PM »

Quote from: Markcb750 on March 29, 2009, 05:14:11 PM

I have a great retort, but little point. We are up against people's beliefs not facts.

Yup!

Unfortunately, until you can change people's beliefs, nothing else matters.

333 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:26:52 PM »

What could you possibly say? Maybe that hydrogen doesn't work?

Markcb750 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:30:01 PM »

We could discuss death rates from coal, and any process the turns oil energy into hydrogen vs nuclear waste...

But that would be unfair.

333 · « **Reply #16 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:38:48 PM »

Who says that hydrogen comes from oil? Or am I mis-reading your post? Everything I've seen says it comes from water. And if it's not used in a internal combustion engine, the "exhaust" is water.

Gordon · « **Reply #17 on:** March 29, 2009, 05:43:37 PM »

Quote from: 333 on March 29, 2009, 05:38:48 PM

Who says that hydrogen comes from oil? Or am I mis-reading your post? Everything I've seen says it comes from water. And if it's not used in a internal combustion engine, the "exhaust" is water.

No. Hydrogen CAN come from water, but currently it doesn't. It comes from propane, because it's currently the least fiscally expensive way to produce it. And until fossil fuels become financially unviable, that's where hydrogen will continue to come from.

PJ · « **Reply #18 on:** March 29, 2009, 06:07:16 PM »

I for one am very glad that someone is actually making progress on developing new technologies that will some day give a cleaner planet to my grandkids. I'm sure that there are going to be allot of technological hurdles along the way and that we are probably not going to be able to produce enough energy to power everything that we need to with zero or close to zero emissions. It's really amazing that we have been able to sustain the current level of energy usage for so long without more damage being done. I applaud anyone who puts the corporate logo away long enough to realize that it has to start somewhere and it will surely take a development giant such as Honda or GM to even start the ideology moving forward.

http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/FCX/station/
Bravo Honda Motor, and thank you.
PJ

Markcb750 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 29, 2009, 06:08:41 PM »

As I stated earlier Hydrogen can be produced from oil (and propane) it takes energy either way, more energy then is obtainable from the reaction that creates electricity directly, or from burning it in an IC device. Kind of like the ethanol from corn debacle.

The oceans are 2/3 Hydrogen (by volume, not mass

) but it takes energy in the form of electrical charge to break the bond between the two Hydrogen atoms and the one Oxygen atom (H2O) in water. IMHO the place to get that electrical charge is from Nuclear power plants. Hence the thread drift. Solar cells would also, but I like the Idea of some new big machines being built. Although our bean counters would want the communist to make them...Drifting away.

There have been many cars built with fuel cell technology, the Honda is a great example. They are also using a fuel cell technology which is more efficient the prior generations. Something to do with the catalyst.

Markcb750 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 29, 2009, 06:23:53 PM »

Quote from: 333 on March 29, 2009, 05:38:48 PM

Who says that hydrogen comes from oil? Or am I mis-reading your post? Everything I've seen says it comes from water. And if it's not used in a internal combustion engine, the "exhaust" is water.

Trying to understand, anywhere Hydrogen is "burned" it forms water, only water as far as I know. Be it in an IC engine or a fuel cell.

Significant hydrogen is produced in almost all oil "cracking" reactions. This is because hydrogen bonds are important in forming oil/gas molecules, when they talk about "cracking" oil they are breaking these molecular bonds which results in hydrogen atoms. It takes catalysts and energy...just like electrolyzing water.

ofreen · « **Reply #21 on:** March 29, 2009, 07:36:53 PM »

Quote from: Gordon on March 29, 2009, 12:30:51 PM

[
On another note, when the hell are they gonna figure out that whole nuclear fusion thing?

Fusion power would so radically change the world and the status quo that I don't think you have to be a tin-foil hat wearer to believe that if perfected, it would be suppressed.

tramp · « **Reply #22 on:** March 30, 2009, 06:35:28 AM »

solar cells are trash unless the sun shines
and here in michigan the sun don't shine
i have no problem with nuclear power
but they have deal with the spent rods till thier safe
batteries need power to charge, where does that power come from
those pesky polluting power plants
seems hydrogen could be the answer

Markcb750 · « **Reply #23 on:** March 30, 2009, 06:41:12 AM »

Quote from: tramp on March 30, 2009, 06:35:28 AM

solar cells are trash unless the sun shines
and here in michigan the sun don't shine
i have no problem with nuclear power
but they have deal with the spent rods till thier safe
batteries need power to charge, where does that power come from
those pesky polluting power plants
seems hydrogen could be the answer

Where & how one acquires the "most abundant element in the Universe" is the question.

goon 1492 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 30, 2009, 09:42:56 AM »

Ok I'll bite, kinda weird I am the only one to mention this, guess it is hidden very well....
Give yourself time to watch his whole story and maybe you can to become a follower like me.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html

http://waterpoweredcar.com/

Very good stuff, makes ya think.

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Author Topic: The most important vehicle in 100yrs! (Read 5435 times)

Ryan 550k

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