Author Topic: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!! (Read 5326 times)

Soos · « **on:** March 30, 2009, 09:52:15 am »

Anyone wanting to do a big bore, and are afraid of trashing their rods might be interested in this.

GSX-R 1000 rods from the '05 - '08 bikes have the EXACT same measurements as the cb650 rods.

I'm not sure on case clearances, but I think they should clear.
I contacted Falicon, and asked a few questions about the rods expecting a shoo if you ain't buying attitude...
Nope, the guy actually went and got a rod to measure for the specs he didn't have at hand!

A LOT more friendly and helpful than Carrillo was.
Once the guy at Carrillo heard why I wanted to know the specs, they pretty much hung up on me.

But the guy at Falicon however sounded intrigued.
Now I feel bad... I forgot his name.

But anywhoo.....
15mm wrist pin bore, 38mm big end without the bearings, and with the bearings 35mm.
111mm center to center. 20mm wide big end.

ALL the same as the stock cb650 rods!!!

Shamelessly I wrote Falicon about getting some promotional rods...

Not even expecting a reply.
But who knows.
I offered to slather my bike with their logo, even offered to get their logo in a tattoo and display it at car/bike shows!
Crazy... But for 1000+ worth of rods? for FREE?!
There isn't much I wouldn't be willing to do!

l8r

Pinhead · « **Reply #1 on:** March 30, 2009, 11:17:23 am »

Coming out of a liter bike, I'll bet you those are heavy-duty! How about the weight?

Sporkfly · « **Reply #2 on:** March 30, 2009, 11:51:47 am »

Now find us some rods for the 550s!

Soos · « **Reply #3 on:** March 31, 2009, 07:06:12 am »

I got one laying around...
I'll look around.

I think the 750 guys have all the advantages over the 650/550/500/450/350's do.
They got the rods if they want them, the overbore kits, and all the attention.
Which helps keeps the smaller cc bikes within sane prices!

Give and take....

l8

Soos · « **Reply #4 on:** March 31, 2009, 07:39:17 am »

Quote from: Pinhead on March 30, 2009, 11:17:23 am

Coming out of a liter bike, I'll bet you those are heavy-duty! How about the weight?

No idea... yet.

I'm going to go ahead and snag a set off e-bay if my money clears paypal before the bidding ends.

I'll post weights of both the stockers and the GSX-R1000 rods if/when I get them.

l8r

754 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 31, 2009, 07:49:25 am »

You better hope bearing fits are identical..

Soos · « **Reply #6 on:** March 31, 2009, 08:15:50 am »

The GSXR 1000 has (by the manual specs) the same journal specs as the cb650.
I think I might try using the GSX-R 1000 bearings as well... and yeah I'm hoping really bad!

l8r

ttr400 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2009, 05:03:37 am »

Interesting, just checked my specs on the GSXR 1000 rods.

Length C to C = 111.0 +-0.1 mm
Big end Dia 38.0mm x 20mm thick
Small end Dia 15.0mm x 16mm thick
Weight = 343g +- 15g
Part code: 12160-41G00

Kevin

fastbroshi · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2009, 05:42:13 am »

Quote from: Sporkfly on March 30, 2009, 11:51:47 am

Now find us some rods for the 550s!

Well I know pistons from a 650 will fit rods from a 550, don't know about the bottom. Paulages would know.

Soos · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2009, 07:23:21 am »

Quote from: ttr400 on April 01, 2009, 05:03:37 am

Weight = 343g +- 15g

Cool...

I'll take mine to work to weigh the stocker cb650 rods.
!!

Thnx Kevin!

l8r

paulages · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2009, 11:22:45 am »

i don't have any stock 650 rods around anymore to compare to the 550, but i believe that these would also work for it. if i can dig up my box of 550 parts i'll measure up a rod.

Soos · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:01:30 pm »

The 550 rods are about 5mm shorter than the cb650 rods unfortunately.

l8r

latheboy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2009, 03:16:24 pm »

Why done you get standard GSXR rods instead of the mega dollar ones, the standard GSXR must be heaps stonger than the 650 rods anyway....

Anyone got specs on the 350 rods

fastbroshi · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2009, 07:14:34 pm »

Quote from: Soos on April 01, 2009, 03:01:30 pm

The 550 rods are about 5mm shorter than the cb650 rods unfortunately.

l8r

I'd have to do the math, but I don't think that would effect displacement too much. If anything maybe it would just raise the redline a hair?? 650 cam, what about the 650's crank throws Paul, how do they measure up to the 550's?

Big Jay · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2009, 10:23:09 pm »

Quote from: Soos on March 31, 2009, 08:15:50 am

The GSXR 1000 has (by the manual specs) the same journal specs as the cb650.
I think I might try using the GSX-R 1000 bearings as well.

l8r

Yo will probably have to use the GSXR bearings as the tang size and location might not be the same.

Soos · « **Reply #15 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:32:01 am »

Quote from: Big Jay on April 01, 2009, 10:23:09 pm

Quote from: Soos on March 31, 2009, 08:15:50 am
The GSXR 1000 has (by the manual specs) the same journal specs as the cb650.
I think I might try using the GSX-R 1000 bearings as well.

l8r

Yo will probably have to use the GSXR bearings as the tang size and location might not be the same.

Thats what I was thinking.
Just hoping all will go well as far as clearances.
Going to have to get some plasti-guage to test them out as far as fit.

I have my eye on a set on Fee-bay
(HANDS OFF THEM, there mine... my precious... yeas... my precious....)

From the pics, they look WAY beefier than my cb650 rods I have off the crankshaft.

l8r

paulages · « **Reply #16 on:** April 02, 2009, 01:50:33 pm »

Quote from: fastbroshi on April 01, 2009, 07:14:34 pm

Quote from: Soos on April 01, 2009, 03:01:30 pm
The 550 rods are about 5mm shorter than the cb650 rods unfortunately.

l8r

I'd have to do the math, but I don't think that would effect displacement too much. If anything maybe it would just raise the redline a hair?? 650 cam, what about the 650's crank throws Paul, how do they measure up to the 550's?

it would cause the piston to slam into the head though!

fastbroshi · « **Reply #17 on:** April 02, 2009, 05:57:27 pm »

Doh was thinking about it backwards.

, ie if the 650 rods were shorter, but they have those bigger domed pistons.. So the 650 has the bigger pistons, larger combustion chamber that's largely made up for my the pistons' domes, and the rods are longer by about 5mm or so?

Soos · « **Reply #18 on:** April 02, 2009, 06:54:36 pm »

Yup, the domes are quite a bit taller on the 650's pistons, the stroke is 55.8mm and the rods are roughly 5mm longer.

The 550 has a stroke of 50.6mm?
So yeah there would be problems unless you found a modern day sports bike that had pistons with a 5mm shorter deck height than the cb550.
Or a set that could be machined to the needs of the 550 using longer rods...

Not much is truly impossible with enough determination/time/money/ingenuity.....

l8r

kayaker43 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2009, 07:13:15 pm »

The ratio of rod length to stroke can change the pistons speed characteristic in regards to dwell time at top and bottom. Tuners with more brains than me play with the rod ratio as a modification all by itself. I suppose we could use a 5mm base gasket spacer to use 650 rods on a 550 if we could deal with the cam chain length. I'm just not sure what it would get you?

I once read something from Yoshimura that the 550 rods could handle 75hp and I had no problems running them for 5 race season. All failures I've heard about or seen all had heat discoloration which indicates a lubrication failure was the start of the end. I doubt any failed just from loading?? The only broken rods I've ever seen were caused by poor lubrication, dropped valves or valve float from a missed shift etc.
Makes me wonder if rods really fail from excess load if everything else is right?

MRieck · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2009, 08:13:21 pm »

I've personally found actual rod failure itself is rare. Bolt failure is more common but the the big factor is lubrication issues and/or poor tune with lean conditions.

Soos · « **Reply #21 on:** April 03, 2009, 06:50:09 am »

Lube failure(god forbid) shouldn't be a problem.
Weight of the 66mm pistons compared to the stocker 59.8mm ones might be a factor to consider when thinking of bolt failure on the conn. rods.

In my case (a cb650 bored to 66mm), it's like running a cb750 at 862cc's.
Rods may not be NEEDED, but (IMO) a good suggestion if I want to hit 10k rpm for any length of time.(and I do)

But anyways....
I found rods that might work, the #'s seem to line up, so why not try.
If I get hosed, and cannot get the proper clearances.... I can always re-sell the rods on Feebay and at least get some/all of my money back.

l8r

kayaker43 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:43:45 am »

This is a great find, thanks for sharing with us. The GSXR rods look forged, no way they can't be better but it would be a bonus if they were lighter. I can't imagine you won't get the bearings to work?

Wouldn't it be great to work at Falicon to learn all the other rod interchanges.

When I worked at a mutl-bike dealership I often browsed the parts shelves and found many treasures like that. I still can't believe the 750 DOHC crank fits the SOHC, at least I heard it did. I'm not a 750 guy but doesnt that mean you have some stroker choices from the 100/1100's

I'm still on a mission to create a close ratio trans from OEM parts.

Anybody looked at the DOHC 650 nighthawk crank to fit the 550/650 cases. Anybody know the bore centers, maybe the head and jugs could adapt? It would be wild to find a Suzuki or maybe KZ650 head that fit.

Lets make a frankenbike

Soos · « **Reply #23 on:** April 03, 2009, 07:54:22 am »

A DOHC550/650 I would love to get my hands on cheap...
If nothing more than to inspect the internals.

I did the same to a ninja600 and ended up making a overbore kit out of the pistons for a 550 motor.
the rods were nowhere near useable though, and the crank was WAY different than the 650's at least....

And yeah a DOHC cb750 crank (with a lot of mods from what I have read) will swap into a SOHC cb750.

l8r

754 · « **Reply #24 on:** April 03, 2009, 08:17:01 am »

I would sure like to find bearing interchangeability, are Suz more or less than Honda.

It would ne worth modding caps if it was easier to get bearings.
Do they use similar coding for sizes?

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Author Topic: Heavy Duty rods for the cb650!!! (Read 5326 times)