Topic: Would like some varried opinions.

[Pinhead]

My youngest of 7 sisters is still in high school (8th grade). All throughout this year, she's had one girl that has wanted to fight her. All of my family (9 of us total; me, my brother, and 7 sisters) have gone to the same high school and excelled in pretty much everything from sports to academics to FFA, 4H, Catechism, etc. Apparently the girl is jealous/envious/loathsome of my sister because we have always had a good family, live on a ranch with horses, have a lot of friends, get along with all of the teachers, so-on and so-forth. Well finally after almost an entire school year of the girl trying to get my sister to fight, the girl instigated a confrontation.

My sister was in the locker room before school started, just minding her business. When she walked out of the stall, the girl "punched" her in the face (my sister said it didn't even hurt). When the girl saw that it didn't phase her, she started fighting the girly-fight, pulling hair, scratching, you know the crap. Finally when my sister had taken enough, she pushed the girl off of her, squared up, and punched her hard square in the nose. The girl crumpled to the floor and started crying, bleeding all over the place. My sister just walked out and went to class.

In my honest opinion, my sister shouldn't be in trouble at all. If she should be punished, it should be much less than what the other girl (that started it) gets. They both got suspended from school for a week. My sister got her Facebook account deleted, and has to go home and fix fence, and I don't know exactly what else my dad is going to do/say, as I haven't talked to him about it yet. Other than being suspended, I don't know how the other girl was punished. If you've ever had to fix fence on a farm/ranch for a week straight, you'd know that it's much more of a punishment than getting "grounded" or suspended from school which is probably all the other girl is going to get.

So here's the question. As parents, what would YOU do?

[sangyo soichiro]

According to your story (and I assume it is correct and not biased), I don't think your sister should be punished at all.  We can't let ourselves be victims.  Period.  Once someone is used to being a victim, much worse things happen than losing a fight.


You might ask your father what he thinks your sister should have done.  Also ask if he thinks there is any time when it is okay to fight back.

I am personally curious as to what your father would do if he was punched from out of nowhere.  Or what he would do if a man punched your mother.  Or what your father would do if he came home to find that a man broke into your house and is raping one of your sisters. 

And then, after all the theorizing is finished as to what we might do in situation 'x,' when the real situation comes it is not uncommon to find that we acted differently.

The point, is that there are times when walking away is not an option.

Just my opinion though.  Take it with a grain of salt.

[333]

Go to bat for her.  Especially if there are witness' to the event.  My feeling if someone starts something, they should pay the piper, and the victim, regardless of who won the confrontation, was only defending themself, and should not be in trouble.

[Caaveman82]

My mother was an addict and she never cared what happened at school. Though the old man was a rage addict, so everytime something happened in school he was all over my case.

I was attacked by a kid at school and let him beat me up a little bit and people started gathering around and so once I saw that there were about twenty people looking on I wound up and kicked the kid in the balls as hard as I could. He was much bigger, not really stronger, but much bigger than me and I did nothing to deserve the BS in the first place. Same thing happened. We both got suspended and I got grounded for like two months. That ment no work either, which lead me to lose my job.

Was that unfair?

Absolutely.

Your sister is getting a bum deal. That other little b!t@h got what was coming to her. I don't care who you are or who you think you are if someone attacks you, the chances of someone just letting it happen are slim to none. How you deal with it is your business, I don't know your old man, so I wouldn't know what to say to him, but I think you should probably at least try to say something or put a good word in for your sis. Sounds like the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

[Duke McDukiedook]

She did what she had to do. You can only run away so much from things before you have to confront them. Stand up for her, make sure your parents know she had no way out of the situation. She was conrnered and forced to defend herself.

School districts are full of idiots at all positions, you just have to take your lumps sometimes.
Their policy is probably to suspend both parties once both people engage in a physical fight. She did engage once she hit the other student back, self-defence or not. She could try to appeal, I am sure there is some kind of appeals process with the district, maybe not.

Good luck with it.

[tramp]

definitely stand up for her
at least it will let her know your on her side

[sangyo soichiro]

School districts are full of idiots at all positions, you just have to take your lumps sometimes.
Their policy is probably to suspend both parties once both people engage in a physical fight. She did engage once she hit the other student back, self-defence or not.

Amen.

According to the school's policy, police officers should also be punished for fighting back with the crooks.   

[Duke McDukiedook]

Yeah, but usually the law is usually on their side... I know it sucks even when they are wrong.

[mattcb350f]

Go to bat for her.  Especially if there are witness' to the event. 

Excactly. The school probably acted on what little information they had at the time. Get together some witnesses, friends of her's etc... and present the case to the school. While I doubt they will change the punishment now, they will at least be aware of the 'real' situation for when they return to school

This will also serve to mitigate future problems should they arise....and by the sounds of it, I doubt its over 

 Matt.

[kghost]

I can tell you what the schools policy will be regarding "She Started it"...

They will take the position your sister should have reported the abuse/Confrontational attitude BEFORE the fight so that they could deal with it.

Not that they would have done anything...or that it would have solved anything...but thats the position they will take.

Your sisters screwed suspension wise...its not fair but thats how life is sometimes.

I do hope you dad cuts her a little slack tho....

[Duke McDukiedook]

Ah yes, school administrators and cops love their snitches don't they?

[Uncle Ernie]

That's a real good question; "Dad, what should I have done?" 
She should calmly ask the principal the same question.

These days, holy cow.  That girl may now leave her alone, or she may come at her with a gun next time.  Hard to know...

As has been mentioned, sometimes you have to take a bite and swallow.  Sure tastes bad, but hopefully she'll take this opportunity to improve communications with your parents AND learn what to do in similar situations in the future.

[Gordon]

By going to class instead of straight to the Principal after the incident, she probably negated any possibility of leniency on her part.  And like Dukie said, it's probably a policy to suspend both participants in a fight, and I don't think that's a bad policy to have.  

Sometimes in life, under abnormal circumstances, you have to make a choice to go ahead and do something that you know you're not supposed to do, even though you know you'll have to suffer the consequences for it whether you had a good reason or not.  

A policy of punishing both students in a fight regardless of who was the instigator prevents the school administrators from having to play judge and jury.

Considering how strong and well-socialized your family seems to be, and considering how many kids there are, I'd say your dad has been doing a pretty good job so far.  A little hard labor is good for character, and will probably give your sister the time she needs to figure out how she could have handled the situation differently.  

I'm not saying you shouldn't defend yourself when being attacked, but is it possible there was something she could have done to help prevent it from happening in the first place?  As you stated, she knew this girl had it in for her, and she knew this was probably going to happen for a long time.    

[gerhed]

Polonius to his son Laertes.
"Beware of entrance to a quarrel,
but being in, bear it,
that the opposed may beware of thee"--Hamlet

[sangyo soichiro]

Considering how strong and well-socialized your family seems to be, and considering how many kids there are, I'd say your dad has been doing a pretty good job so far.  A little hard labor is good for character, and will probably give your sister the time she needs to figure out how she could have handled the situation differently.  

Excellent point.  (I wish I had thought of that....)

[750goes]

My son had a very similar issue, being picked on and bullied at a school where there is a strong ethic to NOT Bully or harass any student etc..

My son also plays guitar and is quite proud of his achievements (acoustic)..

Well bully 1 took his guitar and banged it on the ground a bit - damaging the back of the guitar.
Bully 2 took his backpack and threw it across a courtyard

Aftyer a few words, pushes and shoves he reacted as most kids will do when pushed - he lost his cool and beat the crap out of both of them, then he apologised to the school principal, and said the devil in him took over.

He also mentioned a few words in the bullies ears - if there is a next time he will use the guitar himself..

He got a two day suspension - so did the other two
What did I do - paid for some more self defence classes - and he has now agreed at the local Karate club to instruct younger students ( he is a black belt at 16 1/2)....  something bully 1 & 2 were ignorant of.....

[Pinhead]

She's not in trouble with my parents, though she'll probably get a good talkin' to. But if you're not at school, you're not going to just sit around the house and do nothing. That's where the fence fixing comes in (5-wire barbed wire fence, BTW). Believe me, my parents know what to do. I was just wondering how everyone else felt.

Everyone in our family knows not to start fights. But we also know that if you're in one, you need to finish it as quickly as possible. Knowing that this girl had been picking on her and trying to start fights all year, AND knowing my sister had NEVER been in a fight before, I bought her a pair of sparring gloves for Christmas and taught her how to punch. That's how she knew to "square up" and throw a good punch to finish the crap. Nobody at school knows this, though. I don't know how that would effect the school's opinion on the situation. Believe me, though, a hard-working farm girl can really put a thump on ya!

Considering how strong and well-socialized your family seems to be, and considering how many kids there are, I'd say your dad has been doing a pretty good job so far.  A little hard labor is good for character, and will probably give your sister the time she needs to figure out how she could have handled the situation differently.  

Haha yeah, that's what dad always said, "Builds character." Believe me, we all got plenty of quality time together.

[BobbyR]

Having served on a Board of Education for six years, the Principal had no choice. Being susupended is no big deal and in NY we do "in School" suspensions where the kids get an enhanced study hall where they do homework assigments under supervision. I will go one step further. I would suggest your Sister file a report of the assault with the Police which the School should have done anyway and perhaps get an order of protection. This will erase the "mutual combat" defense the other girl could use. I will tell you this at our High School, the girls seem to hold grudges longer than the boys, so another incident is much more likely. You Dad is over reacting if things are as you say.

[Pinhead]

Having served on a Board of Education for six years, the Principal had no choice. Being susupended is no big deal and in NY we do "in School" suspensions where the kids get an enhanced study hall where they do homework assigments under supervision. I will go one step further. I would suggest your Sister file a report of the assault with the Police which the School should have done anyway and perhaps get an order of protection. This will erase the "mutual combat" defense the other girl could use. I will tell you this at our High School, the girls seem to hold grudges longer than the boys, so another incident is much more likely. You Dad is over reacting if things are as you say.

How is he over reacting? I think it was the school admin's that deleted her FB profile. The only "trouble" that she got at home was to have to have a chat with my parents and to have to help work (the stuff that they do after school anyway). That's not really a punishment, though, it's just circumstantial.

I just talked to my older sister, and apparently Mom and Dad are proud of her standing up for herself, just can't show it to her just yet.

[cb650]

So much to say but so little typing ability.    Just hire a lawer like the school has.  Money and lawers will solve it all.   

[sangyo soichiro]

I just talked to my older sister, and apparently Mom and Dad are proud of her standing up for herself, just can't show it to her just yet.

That makes me happy.   
Being a kid is tough enough without parents adding to it.  I'm glad your parents feel this way.

[Pinhead]

They absolutely hate the idea of suing someone just 'cause they got into a little fight. Now, if someone were to just keep pounding and pounding on someone, then there could be grounds an assault. Such a small fight should stay just that way, small.

[cb650]

Well if she was in the right the parents need to support her.    She (anyone) needs to defend themselves.    Just to many a$$hole lawyers around to do it.

[Uncle Ernie]

I still want someone to ask the pricipal how it SHOULD have been handled to avoid suspension.  I want to know what (s)he says.

[Pinhead]

Another update...

It was my mom that had her disable her Facebook account temporarily. And my sister agreed with it, so it's not as much of a punishment as it is a precaution in case the girl wants to get stupid again. Apparently the whole thing started when this girl and her friend started messaging my sister over FB, calling her all sorts of nasty names. They were the kind that would get censored on here and that you usually hear from 25-yo boys. Fortunately the school has it printed off and saved in their file. I say fortunately, because the conversation shows that my sister tried her damndest to keep out of the fight. She didn't even call the girl any names back. The principal and teacher that showed it to my mom said they were really surprised my she kept her cool for as long as she did. Numerous other teachers made comments along the lines of, "It's about time someone stood up to her."

So they're basically going through the motions to keep their legal end of the deal tied down. Luckily the printed conversation can be used as a form of concrete evidence at my sister's defense if the girl's parents wanted to complain.

With this evidence at hand and the comments that the staff made, I don't know why she was even suspended. It's not really that big of a deal, doing 5 days worth of school work at home... But since she's suspended from school, she's also suspended from sports. That means she'll miss valuable days of track practice. :/ It's easy to make up 5 days of school work, but you can lose a lot of lung capacity in 5 days.

I guess it's simply bureaucracy at it's finest. 

[Retro Rocket]

My son was accused of doing a nazi salute behind his teachers back when he was 11, the school banned him from all sport {he plays cricket at state level and has done for 6 years}. So when he came home from school i gave him the 3rd degree and i suddenly realized that he had no idea what a nazi salute was. I went up to the school to try and talk reason to the principal and was perplexed at the fact that he never even asked my son if he had in fact done it, i then explained to the guy that maybe he had been making decisions for children for that long that he was now making childish decisions.......he just looked at me stunned and let my son off. I think some of them just love having power over someone and screw the consequences.....


Mick

[BobbyR]

Having served on a Board of Education for six years, the Principal had no choice. Being susupended is no big deal and in NY we do "in School" suspensions where the kids get an enhanced study hall where they do homework assigments under supervision. I will go one step further. I would suggest your Sister file a report of the assault with the Police which the School should have done anyway and perhaps get an order of protection. This will erase the "mutual combat" defense the other girl could use. I will tell you this at our High School, the girls seem to hold grudges longer than the boys, so another incident is much more likely. You Dad is over reacting if things are as you say.

How is he over reacting? I think it was the school admin's that deleted her FB profile. The only "trouble" that she got at home was to have to have a chat with my parents and to have to help work (the stuff that they do after school anyway). That's not really a punishment, though, it's just circumstantial.

I just talked to my older sister, and apparently Mom and Dad are proud of her standing up for herself, just can't show it to her just yet.

School Adminsitrastors have to act defensivly given the current climate. Your main concern is over your Sisters's continued safety.

[Duke McDukiedook]

So much to say but so little typing ability.    Just hire a lawyer like the school has.  Money and lawyers will solve it all.   

I hope that was a facetious comment and you are not serious about it. The LAST thing anyone needs to do is involve lawyers in ANYTHING. They have done a perfect job of mucking this country up as it is.

[rbmgf7]

don't start fights, just finish them