Author Topic: Fastest 1/4 mile  (Read 3044 times)

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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Fastest 1/4 mile
« on: April 04, 2009, 10:56:03 AM »
I understand we have some engineers in the forum...


In 1989, Shirley Muldowney set a new record for the fastest 1/4 mile by a wheel-driven car.

If I told you that the coefficient of static friction between her tires and the road was mu = 3.34, what was her best possible time?
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009, 12:10:45 PM »
Yeah... it's a math problem.   :)
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Offline mlinder

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 12:13:19 PM »
Math is for sissies.
No.


Markcb750

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009, 12:47:18 PM »
4.9545s



S=1/2AT^2
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 12:51:22 PM by Markcb750 »

Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009, 01:10:53 PM »
4.9545s



S=1/2AT^2

Very good!


Perhaps it was a little unfair for me to poop this question out without some explanation...

There are two things that are interesting about this problem:

1. Usually the first objection is that there is not enough information given.  People say, "What about horsepower, gearing, weight of the car?" etc.  But as Markcb750 has demonstrated, it can be calculated with the little information that was given.

2. What is the limiting factor when trying to break a speed record?  Horsepower?  Gearing?  Aerodynamics?  No.  It's the friction between your tires and the road.  If it is not enough, you're just spinning your wheels.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 05:58:23 PM by soichiro »
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Markcb750

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 01:15:55 PM »
Go Carolina!





Offline 333

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 04:28:25 PM »
HEY!!!

When I joined this forum, they promised me there would be NO MATH!!!
Go metric, every inch of the way!

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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 04:30:40 PM »
No worries, I'll allow you to cheat off of Markcb750's homework.   :)
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Offline 754

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2009, 08:35:46 PM »
Am I missing a whole bunch?

 if mu= 3.34 was attached to a moped, what would the ET be?
 so far I only see a single part of a formula, unless the year is a factor (which does not seem possible)
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2009, 09:03:15 PM »
This isn't a trick conveyor belt question is it?

Offline gregimotis

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2009, 09:50:27 PM »
Am I missing a whole bunch?

 if mu= 3.34 was attached to a moped, what would the ET be?
 so far I only see a single part of a formula, unless the year is a factor (which does not seem possible)

If ET stands for estimated time, then you missed the last part of the story problem: "...Fastest possible time"
MU=traction, so it don't matter... s*** F*** you, I ain't gonna play your stupid story problem game!









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Offline gerhed

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2009, 11:19:14 PM »
Go Carolina!





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Markcb750

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2009, 04:07:06 AM »

Go Carolina!!!


Remember 98 - 69?

Offline gerhed

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2009, 04:35:06 AM »

Go Carolina!!!


Remember 98 - 69?
I remember '63--Hayman and Mullins took us to our first final four.
After that things get a bit hazy !
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Offline tramp

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2009, 05:12:19 AM »
but if her car was on a conveyor belt going in the opposite direction
would she make down the quarter mile?
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2009, 11:44:05 AM »
Last comment for this thread and then we can let it die...

In case anyone wants to see how Markcb750 got his answer (and how to do this problem), here's how it goes:
(Anyone not interested, read no further (you've been warned).)  :)

Original problem:
In 1989, Shirley Muldowney set a new record for the fastest 1/4 mile by a wheel-driven car.

If I told you that the coefficient of static friction between her tires and the road was mu = 3.34, what was her best possible time?

We're looking for the absolute best time she could possibly have.  We are given the coefficient of friction between her tires and the road as 3.34.  We also know she's traveling a quarter mile, that is, the distance.

The best she could do is to have her car accelerate constantly at the best rate it's capable of.  The key word is constant, and that allows us to use some simple equations - the equations of uniformly accelerated motion.  There are about 5 of these equations, but the one we need is:

x = v0t + (1/2)at2,

where x is the distance (1/4 mile),
v0 is the initial velocity (which is zero since she starts from rest),
t = time to get down the track (her best possible time),
and a = her acceleration.

Since v0 = 0 (she starts from rest), the equation simplifies to

x = (1/2)at2.

We need to solve this for t (we want to know her best time).  A little algebraic shuckin' and jivin' (that is, we manipulate this equation) gets us:

t = (2x/a)1/2,  (Equation 1)

where the 1/2 exponent is another way to say the square-root.

We know x (1/4 mile), but we need to do something about the acceleration, a, since it is not instantly obvious what to do.

We haven't made use of the coefficient of friction yet.  Friction is a force, and the equation for it is

f = mg(mu),

where m is the mass of the car,
g = the acceleration of Earth's gravity (more specifically, in the location where Shirley's at),
and mu, (a Greek letter commonly used for this quantity) = 3.34 (we were told this, in real life, we'd have to experimentally determine it).

(The quantity mg is the mass times gravity, or the weight, FYI.)

Since friction is a force, we can equate it to Newton's 2nd law:

f = mg(mu) = ma,

where you might recognize this as the famous, "Force equals mass times acceleration."

Solving this for the acceleration, a, (the thing we need in Equation 1) we get:

a = g(mu) = g(3.34).  (Equation 2)


Plugging Equation 2 into Equation 1 we get:

t = (2x/3.34g)1/2.



The acceleration of gravity on Earth is 32.2 ft/s2, and 1/4 mile is 1320 feet. 
Thus,
x = 1320 ft,
g = 32.2 ft/s2,

and plugging this all in we get

t = (2*1320/3.34*32.2)1/2 = 4.9545 seconds.

That is her best possible time. 
Shirley's actual time in 1989 was 4.97 seconds with a top speed of 284mph/457kph.  Note that we were not trying to calculate her actual time, only the best possible time.  I believe the current record is 4.437 seconds by Anthony Schumacher.



And again, notice that:
1. You can calculate this with very little information (distance and a coefficient of friction), and
2. The limiting factor when trying to break a speed record is how good your tires grip the road.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 11:46:10 AM by soichiro »
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Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2009, 12:17:41 PM »
Did anyone else's brain actually flip in their skull when they read that?

Wow... I must be stupid.  :'(
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2009, 12:20:31 PM »
Wow... I must be stupid.  :'(

Please don't say that.  That was not the intent of this thread.

Like anything else, it takes practice to do this sissy math stuff.  Real men (and apparently, a woman named Shirley) go out and just do it.   :)
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2009, 01:56:25 PM »
Forgot to mention this...   :-[

Since friction plays such an important role,
and the equation for it is

f = Fn(mu)  (the force the car exerts downward, times the coefficient of static friction),

people can increase their traction by utilizing aerodynamics that exert a force down on the car (e.g., a rear spoiler).  So when I said aerodynamics plays no role, I wasn't telling the complete truth.   :)
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Offline 754

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2009, 10:57:36 PM »
Imo a lot of factors play a role.


So is her actual friction, back calculated thru the formula, ar actually measured?

What I am getting at is:
 2 bikes with identical chassis and tires and motor, but 1 has a turbo, the other carbs.

Their 60 ft times are likely close ( as they are limited by traction & gearing to an extent), but the terminal speed of the turbo bike will be much higher and the ET lower.

So I am speking from a racing standpoint, are you saying the math formula will always be fairly accurate, or just in some cases.

As I understand, you are calculating best time it should be capable of, wether it has the power to get near that figure is an entirely different matter.

 it happens in engineering.. what works good on paper, often has unforseen parameters.. the difference between paper and real machines..
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Offline seaweb11

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2009, 11:13:13 PM »
but if her car was on a conveyor belt going in the opposite direction
would she make down the quarter mile?

She would indeed make it down the 1/4 mile.   Only her hair would still look perfect ;D


Sorry, I got lost in the "math bits" ::)

Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2009, 11:05:55 AM »
As I understand, you are calculating best time it should be capable of, wether it has the power to get near that figure is an entirely different matter.

Exactly. 
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Offline tramp

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2009, 11:51:51 AM »
sometimes i think math forgets the human factor
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Markcb750

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2009, 11:54:45 AM »
sometimes i think math forgets the human factor


Math does not forget, it just doesn't care.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: Fastest 1/4 mile
« Reply #24 on: April 07, 2009, 12:09:41 PM »
Your problem as presented is a kinematics problem, friction would not play a part in it.
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