Author Topic: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10  (Read 191724 times)

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Offline bwaller

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #650 on: December 11, 2016, 04:42:00 PM »
I like that look.  8)

Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #651 on: December 12, 2016, 10:48:10 AM »
Height of the billet block without base gasket same as piston. I measured that the piston is about 0.3mm under gasket surface which corresponds with used base gasket RCS 0.01". Block not tightened. I'll use this gasket. I have also thicker 0.020.

Head gasket however will be the thicker MLS 0.04" . I have thinner 0.03" too just for sure. I guess CR will be OK. Headgasket thickness + 0.010" will be the squish band around the chambers. (chambers ahave diam 65mm)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #652 on: January 29, 2017, 11:11:00 AM »
Update:
Cylinder finally on. Pistons with rings this time. The oil rails needed extra attention since they are very thin and flimsy.
Oil control ring groove in piston only 1.5mm (height). I pinched one ring at first attempt a month ago. I had to order new rings which took time.
ORDER EXTRA RINGS WITH THIS KIND OF PISTONS WHEN ORDER THE PISTONS, JUST FOR SURE ;)

I know now how to do next time.
All rings needed to be checked in bores so end gaps were OK. Recommendation to also deburr the ends so no hard burrs can scratch bore or grip into groove. I used a file and 1000 grit paper to deburr the corners of the gaps.

I should have filed the inner corner of the oil rails much more. The end of oil rails seemed to get stucked into the expander when enter the bores. Mike's billet block have wonderful beveled sleeves that make the pistons to slip in very easy. top ring and 2:nd ring.

The oil rings however needed attention since the oil rail did not enter that smoothly. If stucked into expander it will not squeeze together enough. First attempt when pressing block down, forced oil rail outside and it became  pinched. Block off and waiting on the bench.

Today with new oil rail I took my time and wiggled the piston 2-3 so they entered the bores. Cyl block pressed downwards to pistons by its own weight.
I had a mirror to check oil rails during the process.
1-4 pistons were tricker to wiggle by hand. I found another way with a nylon screwdriver inside the wrist pin and I wiggled it forward backward and created heavy vibrations. Block with its bores just vibrated down over the pistons without hammer on it by hand.

FINALLY OK! Verified by rotating crank some turns and checked the oil film in all bores with all pistons at bottom center. No marks or bad sound... ;D

I searched for one-piece oil ring when I pinched one. It was really tricky to test mount pistons in bores on the bench.

I hope this will  help others with similar pistons and thin rails
I'm sure that these thin oil rails will be much easier to mount if the inner corners of the ends are filed down in a good angle and make it impossible for the ends to hook into the expander and not glide in.

The rail is not deep so it is not much in the groove keeping it in place when not completely compressed.

My other experiences of oil rails are, 736 OEM,  3 models of 836 (same type of rings), 900 67.5mm rings. All these just sank into the bores without any problems and no attempt to leave groove. The beveled sleeve did it by itself.

These newer type of pistons are different with the thin oil rings, tricky but possible whitch patience.  see photos.

EDIT: As You can see I had only 4 cyl studs when mounting the cyl block. The inner 4, 2 of them with O-rings. Easier to do the rings without studs.
When cylinder was mounted and crank rotated some turns to verify pistons Ok and oil film in bores looked fine, the other studs went in and tightened.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2021, 01:05:26 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #653 on: February 05, 2017, 05:12:11 AM »
Started it today! (Carbs got  fuel yesterday evening, cranked around some with ign off.)
Cranked a little on starter. Ignition on and it started on all 4 direct.

I'll might change the registration to CB750 Fatblock  or CB1000 JMR Fatblock;D

Video is from the very first start. Kept oil pressure up and could not resist to rev some so rings will get more friction.
End of video idle at 1000 rpm. I'll make sure that it will be 1200 when really warm

Garage got a fresh good smell of rich running engine. No oil burner smell.
Minimum of chain rattle due to the tight HD chains and APE Ultra crank. I hear other sounds now. A healthy humming sound. I was concerned about cam lubrication.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 05:16:50 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #654 on: February 05, 2017, 05:41:21 AM »
Nice!  Congrats on the clean startup.  It is going to be hard I am sure to restrain yourself during break-in to see what the new motor delivers.  Going to surprise lots of other bikes I am sure with most not having a clue that 750 is a sleeper sporting quite a few more cc than stock.
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline david 750f

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #655 on: February 05, 2017, 07:47:50 AM »
PeWe, well done. The bike sounds great!!!!
1976 CB 750F

Offline kmb69

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #656 on: February 05, 2017, 09:17:29 AM »
.....
Video is from the very first start. Kept oil pressure up and could not resist to rev some so rings will get more friction.
End of video idle at 1000 rpm. I'll make sure that it will be 1200 when really warm
.....

For some reason, I could not see PeWe's embedded video on the forum.

Here's the link:
Sounds really good.


Offline SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #657 on: February 05, 2017, 09:25:42 AM »
That bike is the definition of sleeper.  Imagine the look on someone's face as you pull away from them.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #658 on: February 05, 2017, 09:41:44 AM »
That bike is the definition of sleeper.  Imagine the look on someone's face as you pull away from them.
I hope it will deliver a wheelie when slamming in 3:rd gear and twisting the throttle.
I chocked a Bimota guy back in the 80's when he  thought he could pass me on a curvy road without any efforts . I twisted the throttle and chocked him. His Suzuki engine had 112 crank hp (I think 1000cc), not that much more than my 836 with 80 rwhp. top speed 255 vs 210 km/h So he flew away...
I drove wilder too :) That was fun :)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 09:46:52 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Tim2005

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #659 on: February 05, 2017, 02:46:45 PM »
Sounds great, excellent work. I look forward to the first ride report, though I guess that it will be some time before the weather is good for riding. 

Offline MRieck

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #660 on: February 05, 2017, 06:22:59 PM »
Those TMR carbs work well. ;)
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Offline 754

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #661 on: February 05, 2017, 08:45:15 PM »
Are you leavng the 4 pipes on it... Be good sleeper. Then..
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #662 on: February 05, 2017, 09:57:20 PM »
Those TMR carbs work well. ;)

They responds very quick. Fun to twist the throttle  ;)

Are you leavng the 4 pipes on it... Be good sleeper. Then..

Yes, the 4-4 pipes make the bike to look as a good old CB750. I love the sound too. No diffusers is a must for the flow.

I'll use an action cam at my first ride ;) Gearbest in China had 63% off on an already very cheap camera plus customs free  free shipping :)
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #663 on: February 17, 2017, 12:42:30 PM »
One more thing.. Billet covers needed too!!
Cool with fins.. More fins for the look. Mine are old cast covers and dirty but look cool with the billet block fins.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 12:46:23 PM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #664 on: February 17, 2017, 01:25:37 PM »
^^^ Fintastic^^^   8)
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #665 on: February 17, 2017, 03:38:47 PM »
+1  8) 8)
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1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Sam Green Racing

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #666 on: February 18, 2017, 09:24:59 AM »
Do you have any blocks left Mike ? I know a guy that might want one.
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #667 on: February 18, 2017, 09:58:36 AM »
Do you have any blocks left Mike ? I know a guy that might want one.
Yes.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #668 on: February 18, 2017, 11:45:27 AM »
PeWe, got myJMR Billet Big  Block and dem wafer thin oil rings.....now I feel your pain! Lol. That is one nice ride young man. Good job! Bill
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #669 on: February 18, 2017, 07:46:56 PM »
Even just having the oil ring in XC would be great. ;D I am sure it can be ordered that way as those Hi Comp 72mm pistons are custom order anyway.
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Offline Bill/BentON Racing

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #670 on: February 19, 2017, 04:36:56 AM »
Yeh, next time might be a more modern 4 stroke piston design,  they as yall know have just  enough material for a pin and rings! Problem being gotta go bigger pin....I'm pretty excited about this setup though, thank you Mike!!  ;D, Bill
BentON Racing Website
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Over 35 years of experience working on vintage motorcycles, with a speciality in Honda SOHC/4 with a focus on the CB750 and other models as well from 1966 - 1985.
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1993 HRC RS125 | 1984 NS400R | 1974 Honda CB750/836cc (Calendar Girl) | 1972 CB 500/550 Yoshi Kitted 590cc | 1965 Honda CB450 Black Bomber | 1972 Suzuki T350 | 1973 88cc | Z50/Falcons Pit Bike | 1967 CA100| 1974 CB350 (400F motor)...and more.
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See our latest build 'Captain Marvel' CLICK HERE

Offline Camrector

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #671 on: February 19, 2017, 11:33:18 AM »
Hey Mike, how about something like this for us 550/650 guys?! Put me down first on that list!!!

Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #672 on: February 25, 2017, 07:07:34 AM »
PeWe, got myJMR Billet Big  Block and dem wafer thin oil rings.....now I feel your pain! Lol. That is one nice ride young man. Good job! Bill
I missed the updates here...
I have never had any problems with oil rings, this time I understood others that have written about pinching oil rails.
It might be easier to mount if deburring the inner corner of oil rail ends. I had to verify that the oil rails could be totally squeezed together and fit the bores. Oil rails were sometimes stuck and could not be compressed.  I'll file the inner rail ends in a nice round corner next time.

You need to be careful since the billet block sleeves have a nice radius that will let the 2 first rings to enter very easy, next the thin rails that hopefully will sit correct on expander.

My upper case was not perfectly flat, I saw that when grinding it, removing marks and Honda machining marks showed up. On a bench as I did with head and another block before with success. 220 grit paper first, then 400 to get correct surface for rubber coated steel gasket.

The photo show the stubborn case stud I could not remove which made me to open case for sleeves manually. It worked but not that beautiful as a real machine had done.

Billet block commercial!  ;D
The billet block felt costly when I saw it first time. But when taking everything into account and comparing it with bore a std block that need old sleeves removed, bore for new sleeves OD76mm, welding/sealing bores (air passages ), bore again, new sleeves in, bore for pistons....maybe oilt leak.
Billet block is nothing more than a beautiful block, nikasil coating, pistons, no leak and a cool look.

Bill, I look forward to check your updates in your build thread.
//Per
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #673 on: February 25, 2017, 07:41:24 AM »
Beautiful job. You will be very happy with it.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Billet blocks....who will pay...pics added 9/7/09...10/24....2/10
« Reply #674 on: February 25, 2017, 08:39:42 AM »
Here the final surface. I checked with steel scale and it look flat. I'll see after driving if it will leak. Torquing the head felt really good with RCS steel base gasket and MLS head gasket. Reached the torque very even, without any soft strange feeling. Day after not much more needed.

I have good experience of MLS before when knowing how to do (hammer rivets flat and drill dents in head and block if rivets will be on the mating surface.
Billet block however, has the rivets outside since the billet block has exact the same shape as the curvy gaskets, base and head.

My next K2 project will get RCS and MLS too. Nice to have an OK bike ready for the road and have another project to work on.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 08:56:46 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967