Topic: Beat me or Ban me; It just doesn't matter anymore!

[Inigo Montoya]

Got something better than that. This will really stir I bet!

http://www.dagorret.net/2009/04/08/exotic-high-tech-explosives-positively-identified-in-world-trade-center-dust/

Not saying anything just food for thought.

[BeSeeingYou]

I would say we are now as a people, all of us, not just certain groups, more free than any other time in our history. 

I don't see how you can say that.  We have more laws today that restrict our freedom than at any other time in our history.  And, a thousand new ones are added every year.  I'd bet none of us know what even half of the laws say, or how they effect us.  Why aren't these seen as further restrictions on our freedom?

We pay more taxes now than at any other time in our history.  Is not economic freedom a part of personal freedom?
We only have selected "freedoms" that our taxes pay for.  And, those very taxes pay someone else to further restrict our freedoms, (and increase our taxes).

The first Federal income tax was imposed (under Article I, section 8, clause 1 of the U.S. Constitution) during the Civil War, then again in the 1890s, and again after the Sixteenth Amendment was ratified in 1913.

The Revenue Act of 1861, was a flat rate tax of 3% on annual income above $800.
The Sixteenth Amendment placed a minimum of 1% on all and an additional 1% to 6% for 7 income brackets.
       ref:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revenue_Act_of_1913

* The Federal government's tax burden rose to 6.8 percent of GDP (Gross Domestic Product) by 1940.
* Between 1986 and 1990 the Federal tax burden rose as a share of GDP from 17.5 to 18 percent.
* By 2000, Federal taxes as a share of GDP reached a postwar high of 20.8 percent.

In a little over 100 years the tax rate went from about 3% to 20%.  And now, of course, the Government is saying higher taxes are needed in the future.

Don't forget to add the state taxes, which add 6.47% (average among all states, and varies between 4% an 12% extremes) of personal incomes above what the Feds take.
These have an increase over time history, as well, with media reports of planned increases, either sales tax, income tax, or excise taxes

Today, you are "free" to give 30-40% of your work week to the government (assuming you are somewhere in the middle class). That's one and a half days work you give the government each week.  With the government now giving away money to banks, where do you think that money is going to come from?  Its the all the "free" taxpayers who will be working an extra half day a week for their government (or the banking institutions indirectly).

Care to guess what the next 100 years will bring?

Place these tax data points on a graph, connect the dots and draw a projection line into the future.  How many years before the tax rate equals 100%?

When will we be "free" to work entirely for someone else's gain?

My argument was meant in a much broader concept that just " I don't wanna pay taxes".   As to the tax jump from 3% to 20% well I suppose the fact that in the last hundred years we have built and maintained a national road and air transportation infrastructure, a national water sanitation and supply system, an education system, Nasa, scientific and medical research,  etc, etc.  These just come to mind but I could go on and on.  Not to mention paying for an oversize and bloated  military to police the world.   How many wars have we had to pay for in the last 100 years?  I am not sure what your argument is.  Is it that this has all been pissed away for "someone else's gain"?  Or we just need to get back to 3% or 5% tax rate?  Then we could all be free to get around on a crumbling infrastructure, have unsafe water to drink and a polluted landscape.  A decent education only for those that can afford it.  How about little or no health care for our senior citizens who are not well off enough to afford the rising costs.  If you are well off enough you could just wall yourself off from all these problems and not worry about it. 

There is plenty of waste in the whole government system there is no doubt but I am weary of listening to anti-tax whiners who don't want to pay for anything but are there using all the public infrastructure and gaming the system to their own benefit just like everyone else.

[Duke McDukiedook]

I think most of those people you speak of are tired of a government that has the supposed power to tax at will when their whims please them (16th Amendment). This enables a corrupt government to become more corrupt and finance rich bankers who control the industrial-military complex, who in turn "go to war" against countries that are less developed and have raw materials that we desire or energy resources we want.
 
We the people really have no say in it, we can try and vote out the corrupt legislators in every voting session but that won't make a difference. And it just keeps getting worse and more aggregious day by day.

There comes a point where basically we will feel that our federal government really doesn't represent us and we'll find out that they basically serve at the whims of multi-national corporations and bankers. And then, it will get ugly.

I don't mind paying property taxes and state and local taxes. I know how that money is being spent. I don't like the idea of trillions of our tax dollars every year disappearing into a black hole created by the pentagon and the federal reserve and wars for no other reason than empire building. I have big problems with that.

[HavocTurbo]

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

Nothing against Masonryman. But TT-

I about fell outta my chair I was laughing so hard.

Thank you so very much!!! 

[masonryman]

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

Nothing against Masonryman. But TT-

I about fell outta my chair I was laughing so hard.

Thank you so very much!!! 

I glad you are amused @ my expense

MM

[HavocTurbo]

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

Nothing against Masonryman. But TT-

I about fell outta my chair I was laughing so hard.

Thank you so very much!!! 

I glad you are amused @ my expense

MM

I run my own business as well MM. And I face the same problems as you do. Insurance, unemployment, retirement, etc.

Taken out of context I found it funny.

I meant no disrespect and tried to state that before hand.

[masonryman]

Um, why not blame the people the work is being done for as well?  The audacity of selecting the lowest bidder, Sheesh.  And, to think they want to pay less for the same perceived service. What an outrage!  Yes, the government should make everyone pay more for services rendered (including yours) and then take a percentage of that payment, as well!  Yeah, THAT'S the answer to all ills!
You know, you're going to be working for the government anyway, why not apply directly?

Nothing against Masonryman. But TT-

I about fell outta my chair I was laughing so hard.

Thank you so very much!!! 

I glad you are amused @ my expense

MM

I run my own business as well MM. And I face the same problems as you do. Insurance, unemployment, retirement, etc.

Taken out of context I found it funny.

I meant no disrespect and tried to state that before hand.

I'm pretty thick skinned, non taken,

 you gotta give some out once in awhile

Mark

[cleveland]

Political discussions give me high blood pressure.   

Want to know the secret?  Both side are screwing us, so bring lube you'll need it.