Author Topic: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...  (Read 3350 times)

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Offline HondaMan

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CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« on: April 04, 2009, 09:32:35 AM »
I've heard from several this past month or two that Honda has discontinued their 48T rear sprocket for the 750s.  :'(

When they did this for the swingarm parts for the K5/6/7/8 and "F" swingarm pivot collars and flanged bushings, I came up with the workaround rebuild methods I use now on these swingarms.

Now, I'm contacting the sprocket manufacturers to see if any of them can make the "silent run" version of these sprockets that made the Honda parts so successful and superior to the aftermarket parts. I've started by talking with JT Sprockets' engineering people, and will talk with others. Keep me posted if any of you have some insider info from other sprockets you have used, or builders you know. If I have to, I will make 48T sprockets for sale at SOHC4.net: I have friends with CNC machines...  ;)

Here's what is unique about the Honda sprockets that are found on the CB750/500/550/350F/400F:

1. The base circle of the sprocket is 0.5mm to 0.8mm larger than ASME specs. This causes a gentler settling of the chain into the base of the sprocket and improves the power transmission across far more teeth of the wrap. This single change is the most important feature of the Honda sprockets (it's also true on their countersprockets).

2. The teeth are tapered further toward the root than on ASME sprockets (even further than on ANSI sprockets), all the way to the centerline of the chain's bushing pin. This causes very gentle alignment settling, side-to-side, as the chain engages the sprocket: this is very important when there is more than 20 HP being delivered to the rear wheel, because the rubber blocks tilt a little and the sprocket misaligns. (Those of you who have watched this action while on a rear-wheel dyno know what I'm talking about...) BTW: this is one reason why the stiffer O-ring chains deliver less power to these sprockets: they don't bend sideways easily.

3. The tips of the teeth are 2mm shorter than ASME spec. This lets the chain slip quietly off of the teeth at the end of the wrap, which greatly reduces the "hooking" wear that normally appears so quickly. The loss of this little collision leaves more power in the sprocket, less lost to friction.

In the day, the side-tooth tapers were also polished smooth: Honda's vendors have not done this to their parts since the 1990s. If I have them made, they will be polished. This puts more power on the ground, keeps the lube on the chain, and reduces noise considerably. It also makes for less vibration, especially at 75 MPH and above.

In dyno tests in the 1970s, the then-popular (because they were cheap) aluminum sprockets cost nearly 1 HP on 60 MPH, 4th-and 5th-gear dyno runs. Those sprockets were ASME standard types. The smart street racer and stock-class production racer of the day stuck with the Honda parts, despite the extra 1.5 pounds it added to the rear wheel (compared to the lighter aluminum ones).

Stay tuned...
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
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Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
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Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline 754

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2009, 09:40:44 AM »
I have a few new ones. as far as I could tell they were hobbed and not polished.  hobbing is  likely cheaper than CNCing.. you can set up a stack of blanks 18 inches high & cut thru the whole stack in 1 setup.. around 50 or more sprockets at a time.

 with the cnc though, you can perhaps tailor you spurface finish on a final cut to mimic a polished condition.

The base circle and tooth height mods can of course be factored in..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline cb750k7

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2009, 09:47:12 AM »
My bad luck.... ??? ???

Just 2 hours earlier I have ordered 2 sprockets fro DSS....

Well,  I guess I'll wait and see about the DSS sprockets.  BTW,  they stock 18/48


Cheers,

Jona
Found real friends here !!!

Offline GammaFlat

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2009, 09:59:06 AM »

Sign me up for at least one :)

I sent an email today to hondaparts-direct.com to see if they can get the 48t.  I kind of doubt it based on the noise from others. 

« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 10:01:34 AM by GammaFlat »
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Offline 754

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2009, 10:02:32 AM »
How much are they at DSS/
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline GammaFlat

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 10:37:33 AM »
How much are they at DSS/

DSS says they can't get them: "This part has been discontinued and can no longer be ordered from Honda"

Hondaparts-direct quotes 73.58.  I'll post what Hondaparts-direct.com's says about availability. 

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2009, 01:16:51 PM »
My bad luck.... ??? ???

Just 2 hours earlier I have ordered 2 sprockets fro DSS....

Well,  I guess I'll wait and see about the DSS sprockets.  BTW,  they stock 18/48


Cheers,

Jona

Who is DSS, Jona?  ???
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline jaknight

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2009, 01:50:12 PM »
HondaMan,

I think Jona is talking DSS as in DavidSilverSpares.... out of England.

I am really sorry to hear about Honda dropping their sprockets.  I have always felt they were the only real way to go.  The best.........

Important Edit..... I want to buy a set, HondaMan, when you work things out.

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« Last Edit: April 04, 2009, 05:47:28 PM by jaknight »
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Offline tomkimberly

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2009, 03:49:41 PM »
Look for a local gear manufacture. The best gears and sprockets are machined using shapers and hobs. They love this type of work and more than likely already have all the tooling. If you are seeking a long lasting sprocket, have it made from 8620 steel, avoid using A36 or 633 steel. Instead of polishing them, I would suggest a zinc plate and no phosphate for that orginal look.

If you are in the Los Angles area, give Industrial Sprockets a call. They are located in Santa Fe Springs.


Tom

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2009, 09:11:28 AM »
Look for a local gear manufacture. The best gears and sprockets are machined using shapers and hobs. They love this type of work and more than likely already have all the tooling. If you are seeking a long lasting sprocket, have it made from 8620 steel, avoid using A36 or 633 steel. Instead of polishing them, I would suggest a zinc plate and no phosphate for that orginal look.

If you are in the Los Angles area, give Industrial Sprockets a call. They are located in Santa Fe Springs.


Tom


Thanks for the tips, Tom! I will call them, and I will keep this info handy.  Denver area has no gearmakers at all (but lots of CNC equipment, if I have to go that way). I fully suspect gearmakers would be far cheaper, and better equipped, to make us a less expensive sprocket.

My target sprockets will be 48T rear first, then 18T and 17T shouldered, splined fronts. For now, we may be "safe" over the front sprockets, as they fit many other Honda bikes. But in this economy, opportunities like this are appearing everywhere as big companies look the wrong direction to cut their costs, so many times...
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2009, 09:16:10 AM »
Sign me up for one, I'll go back to the diamond chain and original sprockets when my oring dies.
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Offline tomkimberly

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2009, 10:50:12 AM »
These guys are in Denver: http://www.martinsprocket.com/ over on 54th street.


Tom

Offline HondaMan

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2009, 05:32:22 AM »
These guys are in Denver: http://www.martinsprocket.com/ over on 54th street.


Tom


Wow, my local phone book doesn't even show them!
I'll contact them this week.
Thanks, Tom!
See SOHC4shop.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book
Link to My CB500/CB550 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?sortBy=RELEVANCE&page=1&q=my+cb550+book&pageSize=10&adult_audience_rating=00
Link to website: https://sohc4shop.com/  (Note: no longer at www.SOHC4shop.com, moved off WWW. in 2024).

Offline livetoskate

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2009, 05:51:01 AM »
count me in for one of those ;D
Keep us posted
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Offline hapakev

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2009, 09:06:53 AM »
+1 on the order :)
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Offline goon 1492

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2009, 09:38:49 AM »
Man I had a hell of a time finding a 48t, search everywhere. I had jcwhitney(which gets them from jt sprockets) order me one but after waiting for two months i cancelled and another member sugested dennis kirk and a week after ordering I get my 48T, and I think it was a parts unlimited type.

You can sign me up for one though.
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Offline livetoskate

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2009, 10:39:32 AM »
Well I need a 48 tooth rear sprocket now ,I can't find a Honda one obviously because they were discontinued. I have a couple options Dennis Kirk has a 48 tooth Sunstar sprocket and a 48tooth JT sprocket. Anyone have any advice on which one is better?
Sorry for Hijacking the thread Hondaman ,just needed to ask that one question.
78 cb750K , 73 CB750 x2, Yamaha dt360 & 250

Offline Really?

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2009, 11:21:32 AM »
No wonder the 48T sprocket I ordered has been on back order.  I have been waiting a long time.  I keep looking at that new chain I was gonna hook it to.
I don't have a motorcycle, sold it ('85 Yamaha Venture Royale).  Haven't had a CB750 for over 40 years.

The Wife's Bike - 750K5
The Kid's Bike - 750K3

Offline goon 1492

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2009, 06:44:23 AM »
Giga I searched every where and dennis kirk was where I found it, I waited until I had to shave four times before I found the right place got it in....

And I only shave once a week. ::) (grizzly adams music chime's in  :P )
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Offline livetoskate

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2009, 08:50:24 AM »
Dennis kirk doesn't carry OEM parts do they? ???
I called them yesterday and the have the Jt sprockets 48 tooth rear and a sunstar 48 tooth sprocket, but no Honda sprockets.
78 cb750K , 73 CB750 x2, Yamaha dt360 & 250

Offline cb750k7

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2009, 09:29:52 AM »
My bad luck.... ??? ???

Just 2 hours earlier I have ordered 2 sprockets fro DSS....

Well,  I guess I'll wait and see about the DSS sprockets.  BTW,  they stock 18/48


Cheers,

Jona

Who is DSS, Jona?  ???

Hi Mark,

DSS is David Silver Spares,

Apparently the shipping cost from UK was way up of my expectation so I cancelled my order....

Looking for your sprockets.  Already ordered the Diamond chain.



Cheers,

Jona
Found real friends here !!!

Offline 754

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2009, 09:34:32 AM »
I thought I had an NOS 48T, maybe not cant find..

 Did find a looks like NOS 41T in 630.. not stamped for tooth counts...so not sure if it is OEM though.

Only reason I mention it is, it has full tooth form...can anyone CONFIRM if this is the case on OEM 77/78 Honda 750?
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline goon 1492

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2009, 06:48:10 AM »
Dennis kirk doesn't carry OEM parts do they? ???
I called them yesterday and the have the Jt sprockets 48 tooth rear and a sunstar 48 tooth sprocket, but no Honda sprockets.

No they are not stock, I should have clarified that when I stated it, sorry.
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Offline tomkimberly

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Re: CB750 sprockets: gonna try something...
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2009, 11:06:23 AM »
Hondaman, PM sent. Solution at hand.


Tom