Author Topic: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????  (Read 12586 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HackNslashCustoms

  • Guest
Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« on: October 25, 2005, 10:06:04 PM »
Hello all. I'm scratching my head again.
Background: My bike idles high. I've been aprehensive to adjust the Idle screw for fear of getting the carbs out of sink since I don't know which screw it is (idles around 2-3k). I'm using Clymers manual untill I hit barns and noble for a better manual or someone shows the new guy a pic of what I need to adjust.

The bike loses all guts at 60mph! Most of the time it just bogs and then dies (very scary on the interstate during Orlando rush hour)! Carbs were cleaned and adjusted by a shop recently. To be honest I never took the bike up that high until now, since I hadn't ridden in 15 years (and wasn't skilled then) and I'm learning it again.[/size]

Please help. If someone can instruct on use of the Petcock, maybe I'm doing something wrong there too??

Offline seaweb11

  • 1st Mate &
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,258
  • Ride & Smile
    • Playground Directory
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2005, 10:15:00 PM »
There was a post like this a couple of days ago.
http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=4973.0

Somone indicated a vacume in the tank perhaps, not venting properly?
I'm not sure, but you could always see if that guy figured it out.

Good luck

HackNslashCustoms

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2005, 10:22:53 PM »
a vacume in the tank perhaps, not venting properly?

Hmmm...I can check that easily enough.

BTW Your bike was a large inspiration of why I bought mine. I liked the styling you did and along with Carpy's bikes they are my inspiration and direction I'll be taking. Just wanted to say thanks!  ;D

Offline scondon

  • No way my run was THAT slow, must be an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,137
  • Mmmm......tasty bugs
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #3 on: October 25, 2005, 10:42:24 PM »
Petcock-  Straight up=reserve
              Straight down= on
              Horizontal(flat)= off
 Gas either flows through the petcock or it doesn't. Shouldn't have anything to do with your problem unless the filter screen is really clogged and impeding gas flow from the tank(possible).

Idle adjustment is the knurled adjustment screw pointing straight down between carbs 1&2 (left side of bike). You don't need any tool to adjust it, just your fingers. It's the only adjuster on the carbs like that so don't worry about mucking anything up, go ahead and adjust your idle(when the bike is hot). If that black motor is an F2 engine then your carbs might be a later model, in that case the idle adjuster points forward and is on the right between carbs 3&4.

   More than a few reasons that a bike might bog out or quit running. My guess would be either the carb bowls are running out of gas as mentioned before(plugged vent or restriction in fuel line), or that the float levels are set too low.
Give me..a frame to build a bike on, and my imagination will build upon that frame

Offline KB02

  • Take it easy there, Sonny, I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,760
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 05:46:49 AM »
Petcock-  Straight up=reserve
              Straight down= on
              Horizontal(flat)= off
 Gas either flows through the petcock or it doesn't. Shouldn't have anything to do with your problem unless the filter screen is really clogged and impeding gas flow from the tank(possible).
   More than a few reasons that a bike might bog out or quit running. My guess would be either the carb bowls are running out of gas as mentioned before(plugged vent or restriction in fuel line), or that the float levels are set too low.

Also, do you have an inline filter? Same issue as above different cause. If the filter is clogged (or too small to allow the propper amount of gas through) it might cause issues.

Have you checked the timing to make sure the advance is working properly?
1978 CB750K Project
2000 Ducati ST2
...and a pedal bike

Join the AMA today!!

My project thread Part I: K8 Project "Parts Bike"
My project thread Part II: Finishing (yeah, right) touches on Project "Parts Bike"

Offline Lumbee

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,498
    • My pics...
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 06:13:52 AM »
...do you have pod filters or stock air box.  I'v heard that some with pod filters have experienced bogging at high speeds due to air flow...
----------
"I'm not a welder, but I play one on HondaChopper.com"

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,700
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 07:56:44 AM »
This sounds like fuel flow maybe. Can you rev the engine to near redline in neutral without a problem - opening the throttle to about 3/4 and it should quickly spin up without any bogging (except off idle which is normal unless your bike has the accelerator pump) which says at least some stuff is working fine. Riding at 60 takes a fair bit of gasoline flowthough. If the petcock or fuel screen is clogged and only a trickle is flowing, the reservoirs in the carbs will fill and supply gas for revving or accelerating through the gears but constant demand at cruising speed may drain the float bowls and the bike dies.
Remove the petcock fuel line(s) and run some aquarium hose from the petcock into a jar. Turn on the fuel and see how much flow you get... I don't have any specs but a cup of gas should appear in less than 30 seconds with a full tank. If there's a problem, the petcock is easy to remove once the tank is empty - either a big nut above the petcock or 2 screws from inside the tank - but some gas WILL spill out anyway, take the tank off and do it outside! The mesh fuel filter (usually comes off with the petcock) can get gummed up and clogged, and the inside passages in the petcock itself can get all clogged with crud. If the petcock has screws holding on the escutcheon plate around the tap lever then it is easily disassembled and cleaned, riveted ones are less friendly but you can drill out the rivets and put it back together with tiny screws if you're handy with that kind of work. The mesh screen generally disintegrates if you try to clean it but it's worth a try; you can safely do without it if you install inline fuel filters in the hoses to the carbs. You should install those filters anyway as they prevent most float valve leaks and carb drips - dirt particles small enough to pass the screen can and do lodge in the float valves and make them leaky.
The other usual issue is ignition. Even if the bike revs freely to redline, cruising throttle can give cylinder pressures that a weak ignition can't ignite. If new spark plugs solves your problem, excellent. You may need new spark plug caps too, the original plugs were non-resistor and the caps had resostors... non-resistor plugs are now near impossible to find and the double resistance can weaken the spark. Either get non-resistor plugs or non-resistor caps... one can be resistor but both has caused trouble for me.
Last is carburetion. Set the points gap and ignition timing as close to spec as possible and check that the spark advancer is working properly.
Once you know you have fuel flow and your ignition is set to spec and your plugs, caps, and wires are all good check the fuel/air mixture. Run the bike for about a minute on the highway in the "bogging" condition then switch off the kill switch, pull the clutch in, and coast to a stop (shift down as you slow so you're not stopped in top gear!). Check the plug tips colours immediately and if they are not a nice grey then your carbs probably need work. Oily plugs anytime means you have oil leak trouble, piston rings or valvestem seals most likely.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 08:16:29 AM »
That is one thing you did not say. How soon when you hit 60 does this happen?
Does it take a couple of seconds? Or is it right away?
If it is a couple of seconds, then I would say the fuel flow as described above.
If immediate, then I would say the mains are not set properly or the timing may not be advancing proplerly.

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 08:24:25 AM »
If it were timing, wouldn't something seem amiss before that? I believe the advance mech. maxes out at 3,000 rpm.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2005, 08:28:48 AM »
Depends on what gear he is in and how hard he hits it. Timing maxes at 300 but there it is advanced. As we all know, the faster your eninge goes the faster it must fire. So if timing never changes from 3000 to 8000 rpm, it has to be advanced somewhere along the line, as in firing before it is optimal.

Offline seaweb11

  • 1st Mate &
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,258
  • Ride & Smile
    • Playground Directory
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2005, 06:50:35 PM »
"BTW Your bike was a large inspiration of why I bought mine. I liked the styling you did and along with Carpy's bikes they are my inspiration and direction I'll be taking. Just wanted to say thanks!  "


You have warmed my hart tonight.
There were many bikes that inspred me, Carpy's for SURE! Just asked him to send me some more stuff last night.

Thank you and good luck with your project ;D

Ride and smile 8)

Offline mrbreeze

  • Not your average
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,902
  • Shut up when you're talkin' to me!!
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2005, 11:06:11 PM »
Sounds like starvation to me. I had a problem with in line fuel filter being too small. Also make sure you have a clean tank,petcock,strainer on petcock,no kinks in fuel line to carbs.If that don't get er'then you have plugged or out of tune carbs.
MEMBER # 257
Fool me once..shame on you. Fool me twice..I'm kickin' your a$$......

HackNslashCustoms

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2005, 12:19:09 AM »
seaweb11: I looked at the gas tank today. If you are talking about the gas cap, I have the flip up type and didn’t notice any vent or anything. I did notice some like vent tubes under the tank and checked these and all was clear no obstructions that I could see. Oh, and thanks for the encouragement.

Scondon: Thanks for the petcock info! I cleaned the face of spray-paint with brake/parts cleaner and I put it in the correct position down (now that I can see the letters) according to your instructions. I have not removed petcock because the tank is full until I run out or drain it. I still have to pull this apart and inspect it.

I tinkered with the idle adj. screw (now that I know where it is) and got it idling smoothly at 1500-1800. It is on the right side on my bike. I don't know what that tells me about my model.


KB02:  I could not find an inline filter. Nor could I find a pinched fuel line. I visually inspected the fuel lines under the tank and could not find a pinch or anything.  I did notice that the Gas tank isn’t even bolted down, there are bolt holes on the tank but nowhere that I see it should attach to (unrelated but a bit surprising).

I’m going to check the timing In the morning. I took a light with me but it was broken so I’ll be using another one tomorrow.


RaDigga
: I do have individual cone filters (no airbox), but I hadn’t heard of these causing these issues.

Bodi: I did rev it u to see if it bogged at high rpm s or anything. It blew a cloud of black smoke on the first rev (without bogging) and never bogged on the next few revs to redline.

eldar, Master of the K8 Thunder!: “How soon when you hit 60 does this happen?” I’m not sure on that it just seems to sputter. I will check more on that tomorrow.
Checking the timing in the AM.


Mrbreeze: Thanks, it does sound like fuel starvation. I’m going to investigate more in the AM.

I’m going to check Petcock (remove, clean, and inspect). Do the fuel in a jar test. check timing, Search again for kinked lines, and pull the plugs to see what they tell me.

I want to leave the carb till last since it is the hardest for me if that is the problem.

Thank you all so much for helping a newbie like me. I’m going to check out as many things in the morning and get back with what I find.

Thanks Joel
« Last Edit: October 27, 2005, 08:49:08 AM by HackNslashCustoms »

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2005, 01:42:10 AM »
Quote
Depends on what gear he is in and how hard he hits it. Timing maxes at 300 but there it is advanced. As we all know, the faster your eninge goes the faster it must fire. So if timing never changes from 3000 to 8000 rpm, it has to be advanced somewhere along the line, as in firing before it is optimal.

Not sure I follow?
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

Offline TwoTired

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 21,805
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2005, 01:48:33 AM »
Some of your description sounds like it is getting too rich.

The way to tell is by taking out your spark plugs and reading them for combustion conditions.  Compare what yours look like to the pics at:
http://www.dansmc.com/Spark_Plugs/Spark_Plugs_catalog.html
This should tell you if you are going lean from starvation, or flooding from air filter restriction, or just plain bad jetting, or some other failure in the carbs.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Steve F

  • I have "some-timer's disease" because I'm an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,929
  • "To Ride Is The Reason, The Destination The Excuse
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #15 on: October 27, 2005, 03:53:54 AM »
Don't forget to check the tiny screens mounted to the float needle valves. They can get clogged too.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #16 on: October 27, 2005, 08:05:07 AM »
ok I will try to use visual, I know you oldsters sometimes have difficulty seeing! ;D



8000RPM line -----------------------------------------()

3000RPM line----------------                          ()

() stands for spark

See at full advance the spark happens at the same time at 3000 or 8000 rpm BUT the pistons are NOT in the same places thus spark that might be perfect for 8000 rpm would be occuring to soon for 3000.

So if his advance is not working properly, this problem would be even worse. Hard to explain in type.
I could be way off on it all but again if advance is not working quite properly, it could be a problem.

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2005, 09:16:22 AM »
I guess I need some education.. seriously. My thought when I wrote my original reply was that since the advance mechanism is already at it's max at 3,000 rpm, if it were sticking or not working properly, you would encounter some performance issues even in 1st or 2nd during a moderate acceleration since you would likely exceed 3,000 in these gears. It is also my understanding, again could be wrong, that no matter how fast the engine is turning, the number of degrees advance will remain the same beyond 3K rpm. Is this right?

Signed: Myopic Oldster.  ;)
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2005, 09:51:12 AM »
Yes the degrees stay the same but the pistons will not be in the same position at firing.

As for 1 and 2 gears, that depends on riding style. I hit 3000 all the time but some may not.

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #19 on: October 27, 2005, 10:01:44 AM »
Quote
Yes the degrees stay the same but the pistons will not be in the same position at firing.

OK, I guess I'm dense and myopic. Isn't everything mechanically in lock step so to speak? Crank, cam shaft, advance mechanism beyond 3K? Seems the pistons would always be in the same postion at ignition once 3K is reached or exceeded? I guess I need a better visual.
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2005, 10:47:16 AM »
They might be but I dont think so. Technology advances and while basic engine design has not, ignition has. Ignition is now timed by a computer to fire at the optimum point for a given rpm. So if the timing never changed while rpms did, this would not have been done.

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #21 on: October 27, 2005, 10:52:31 AM »
eldar,you mean that k8 will get to 3 grand?
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

eldar

  • Guest
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2005, 12:20:21 PM »
Before that K1 even gets started!

Offline dusterdude

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,493
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2005, 12:30:22 PM »
hahahahaha  :D
mark
1972 k1 750
1949 fl panhead
1 1/2 gl1100 goldwings
1998 cbr600 f3

Offline Bob Wessner

  • "Carbs Suck!"
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 10,079
Re: Help! 76 CB750 Dies At 60mph! WTH??????
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2005, 12:31:23 PM »
Quote
Ignition is now timed by a computer to fire at the optimum point for a given rpm

I agree in terms of today's ignition systems, but I thought we were talking about a '76 750?
We'll all be someone else's PO some day.