Author Topic: Trouble shifting from first to neutral (Read 3756 times)

Lenny55 · « **on:** April 23, 2009, 09:03:51 PM »

Hi guys, just bought my first bike. Probably a stupid newbie question.....but here goes. The bike doesn't want to shift from first gear back into neutral with the motor running. If I shut it down, I can shift it back into neutral no problem. The bike starts nice, and the motor runs great. Where should I start with respect to troubleshooting?

Thanks in advance, Lenny.

333 · « **Reply #1 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:06:46 PM »

Adjust the clutch cable just a little tighter.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #2 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:09:04 PM »

Tried that, maybe I went a little too far?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #3 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:10:31 PM »

The one up shift from 1st should favor 2nd. You want it that way so you don't blow your lead off the line when drag racing racing... er I mean... so you can pull out smoothly into traffic

Change the oil if you haven't already. Use a grade designed for motorcycle "wet clutches". Get a manual and adjust the clutch too.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #4 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:14:17 PM »

Thanks for your help guys, I plan to change the oil tomorrow. The shop sold me some Kawasaki 10w40. I guess that's as good as any?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #5 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:25:41 PM »

As long as it is designed for bikes its fine. Asking what oil is best is a popular topic on this board. There is a lot of debate and no consensus other than to change oil often.

Spanner 1 · « **Reply #6 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:28:56 PM »

+1 on the oil...10/40 motorcycle oil sounds good to me for best clutch op......

jaknight · « **Reply #7 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:32:28 PM »

Hi Lenny,

Congrats and welcome aboard for the ride!

As Old School said, you'll find a wide diversity about oil types. I will say this though......... I live in Arizona and summers are incredibly hot. During summer months I use 20-50W oil specifically made for motorcycles. If you live in a hot western state I recommend you look into something similar......... these are air cooled engines...... in Phoenix heat beyond 115 is not unusual.....

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

GammaFlat · « **Reply #8 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:33:46 PM »

One thing I've found seems to work is to slightly roll the bike forward while pulling up on the shifter (and clutch in). Obviously, you have your right leg on the ground. Might be my imagination, but it seems to work for me.

jaknight · « **Reply #9 on:** April 23, 2009, 09:43:26 PM »

Yes,

+1 with GammaFlat...... roll it forward a little and try shifting while moving..... I have found also when that doesn't work, roll backward a little...... it usually does the trick.

~ ~ ~ jaknight ~ ~ ~

Lenny55 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 24, 2009, 04:42:53 AM »

Hey guys, I'm used to driving a standard car, so I know what you mean about rolling slightly forward or back to help ease it into gear, but it just won't budge from first to neutral after I come to a stop. I'll try the oil change/clutch adjustment and get back to you guys. Thanks again.

Sweep · « **Reply #11 on:** April 24, 2009, 05:04:45 AM »

Idle too high over 1k will also cause this.

GammaFlat · « **Reply #12 on:** April 24, 2009, 06:13:05 AM »

Quote from: Lenny55 on April 24, 2009, 04:42:53 AM

Hey guys, I'm used to driving a standard car, so I know what you mean about rolling slightly forward or back to help ease it into gear, but it just won't budge from first to neutral after I come to a stop. I'll try the oil change/clutch adjustment and get back to you guys. Thanks again.

I thought we were rolling slightly forward to get it into neutral. The upward pull on the shifter needs a light touch as well as rolling the bike slightly.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 24, 2009, 08:39:54 PM »

So, I changed the oil, and the clutch cable seems to be adjusted right, but after it warms up, it really doesn't want to shift from first to neutral after coming to a stop. If I reach down with my hand I can't even make it budge. Any thoughts?

Lenny55 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 24, 2009, 08:40:33 PM »

Sorry about the italics guys.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 24, 2009, 08:55:12 PM »

First of all, what bike do you have??

Next, have you adjusted the clutch lifter, as opposed to the clutch cable? There's actually three adjustments on the clutch: the lifter, the lower cable adjuster, and the upper cable adjuster. Adjust the lifter first, then the lower adjuster, then the upper adjuster.

As a diagnostic, adjust the lifter slightly too tight, so that the clutch doesn't engage fully. Now when you pull in the lever you'll be sure there's no drag on the clutch that's loading the transmission down. If you can now upshift from first to neutral, then clutch drag is the issue.

mystic_1

Lenny55 · « **Reply #16 on:** April 24, 2009, 09:03:39 PM »

Hey Mystic, I have a '73 CB500, just bought it last week. Not too familiar with bikes that have engines, I was a bicycle mechanic for 10 years so I'm familiar with things like hubs, cables, suspension, and disc brakes and all that, but engines and trannys, not so much. Funny thing is, my mountain bike is worth about a grand more than my motorbike. Really appreciate any advice you have.

Gordon · « **Reply #17 on:** April 24, 2009, 09:21:06 PM »

Quote from: Lenny55 on April 24, 2009, 08:39:54 PM

So, I changed the oil, and the clutch cable seems to be adjusted right, but after it warms up, it really doesn't want to shift from first to neutral after coming to a stop. If I reach down with my hand I can't even make it budge. Any thoughts?

Are you saying you can't up-shift at all from first gear when stopped, or you just can't shift into neutral?

Lenny55 · « **Reply #18 on:** April 24, 2009, 09:25:13 PM »

Can't upshift at all.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #19 on:** April 25, 2009, 04:44:09 AM »

Is the clutch lifter the same as the adjuster? If so I assume I would turn it clockwise to make it tighter?

mystic_1 · « **Reply #20 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:20:10 AM »

Oh, forgot to ask this, do you have this problem always, or only when the engine is hot?

The adjuster in the side of the side cover adjusts the lifter mechanism. The adjusters at the base of the clutch cable and at the clutch lever adjust the cable free play.

Take as a disclaimer that I've never worked on a 500/550 before.

So, the workshop manual I have says "Turn the adjuster clockwise until a slight resistance is felt, then turn counterclockwise about 3mm (1/8 in). At that point, tighten the lock bolt."

So for this diagnostic test, I'd turn it clockwise until you feel slight resistance and then lock it down right there. At this point the lifter mechanism should be partially engaged without pulling the clutch lever, which means it'll slip, so take it easy. Now drive the bike a little and see if you can upshift from first while stopped.

mystic_1

Lenny55 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 25, 2009, 05:32:44 AM »

Thanks mystic! It seems to get worse as the engine warms up for sure. I'll try that adjustment out later when it warms up a bit. The weather that is, might snow here AGAIN today.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #22 on:** April 27, 2009, 06:42:46 PM »

I haven't tried adjusting the clutch yet, but I was checking out the shift lever, and I noticed a little bit of oil on the pipe below it. Is it normal for a little bit of oil to seep out there? It doesn't seem to be much, but I thought I'd ask.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #23 on:** April 27, 2009, 09:26:00 PM »

Probably your shift shaft seal is leaky. It's an easy fix, especially if end up pulling the shift cover (mission cover) for further investigation.

mystic_1

750goes · « **Reply #24 on:** April 27, 2009, 10:05:20 PM »

Just a thought - blip the throttle a bit and then try while blipping to move it back into neutral from first - it is probably a case of worn shift dogs..

or otherwise - don't use first - just grab second and give it a handful.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 28, 2009, 04:55:32 AM »

Ha ha, yeah, it doesn't really seem to be much of an issue, the shop I deal with said to try shifting into neutral as I roll to a stop which seems to work. More of an annoyance than anything. Mystic, good to know the seal is a minor fix, thanks for your help guys.

I was trying out the kick start the other day. It seemed to grab ok at first, but then all of a sudden, nothing. Smooth as butter when i kick it over, so something isn't grabbing somewhere. Any thoughts on that?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #26 on:** April 28, 2009, 09:48:34 AM »

The kick lever operates differently depending on the clutch engagement.

mystic_1 · « **Reply #27 on:** April 28, 2009, 10:00:33 AM »

So out of curiousity I looked up the shift shaft seal on www.cmsnl.com. Check this out:

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb500-500-four-k2-us_model461/partslist/E++17.html

91202KFL841 OIL SEAL 13.8X24X
91202216000 (91202-KFL-841) OIL SEAL Note: this part is superseded by 91202216003.
91202216003 (91202-KFL-841) OIL SEAL, 14X24X5 Note: this part is superseded by 91202302010
91202302010 (91202-KFL-841) OIL SEAL,13.8X24X Note: this part is superseded by 91205HB2771
91205HB2771 (91202-KFL-841) OIL SEAL,13.8X24X Note: this part is superseded by 91205HB2772
91205HB2772 (91202-KFL-841) OIL SEAL 13.8X24X Note: this part is superseded by 91202KFL841

$:-\$

Circular reference: See Reference, Circular.
Reference, Circular: See Circular Reference.

All of them cost 3.50 euros though lol at least you have lots of choices

mystic_1

Lenny55 · « **Reply #28 on:** April 28, 2009, 06:53:52 PM »

Thanks for the info Mystic, Old School, I didn't quite get what you said in your post. How does the kick start react differently?

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #29 on:** April 28, 2009, 07:05:38 PM »

Try it, you'll see. I think the clutch must be out (engaged) else the kick leaver won't spin the crank. Or is it the other way around? My bike is still in pieces, so I can't test and memory is failing... what were we talking about??

I know I left a beer around here somewhere...

Lenny55 · « **Reply #30 on:** April 28, 2009, 07:23:23 PM »

I'm confused, why would I want to kick it over without the clutch engaged??? Wouldn't the bike just lurch forward?

Lenny55 · « **Reply #31 on:** April 28, 2009, 07:49:47 PM »

Unless of course it was in neutral. Sometimes my stupidity amazes even me.

jeepster · « **Reply #32 on:** April 29, 2009, 03:32:32 AM »

Quote from: Lenny55 on April 23, 2009, 09:03:51 PM

Hi guys, just bought my first bike. Probably a stupid newbie question.....but here goes. The bike doesn't want to shift from first gear back into neutral with the motor running. If I shut it down, I can shift it back into neutral no problem. The bike starts nice, and the motor runs great. Where should I start with respect to troubleshooting?

Thanks in advance, Lenny.

Lenny,

I have a similar problem with my bike. I usually just partially engage the clutch, roll forward a bit, then wait for a popping sound, then pull the clutch back in. Usually have no problems getting back into neutral after that.

Lenny55 · « **Reply #33 on:** April 29, 2009, 04:43:53 AM »

Thanks man, I'll try that.

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Author Topic: Trouble shifting from first to neutral (Read 3756 times)