Author Topic: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?  (Read 4362 times)

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Offline HondanutRider

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Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« on: April 25, 2009, 06:36:38 AM »
The NGK line of plugs commonly available these days seems to be limited to the "resistor" style.  At least this is what I find when looking for the correct plug for older Honda models, like the SOHC/4's.

Are these resistor plugs OK to use as a direct replacement?

I've seen reports both ways.  The positive ones state that the resistor plugs give a "stronger" spark, and the negative ones state they harm the coils or sometimes are suspected of fouling.  What's the opinion or better still, the actual experience here?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2009, 04:33:57 PM by HondanutRider »

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2009, 06:38:16 AM »
Not a good idea. The leads already have resistors in them. Have you tried your local Honda dealer? I'm able to get the correct, non-resistor plugs from them.
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Offline 333

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2009, 06:39:19 AM »
No.  There is a resistor built into the spark plug cap.
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Offline Gordon

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2009, 06:41:51 AM »
Non-resistor NGK plugs are still readily available.  If you can't find then locally, many on-line suppliers sell them. 

Offline mlinder

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 06:55:11 AM »
No.

Use the ngk d8ea or d7ea's. Plentiful and easily found.
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upperlake04

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2009, 07:33:21 AM »
  The NGK resistor plugs will work well in your bike. For some reason that I don't know Honda specified those plugs for the Canadian market, but not for the US.  My 78 750F3 has happily used the resistor plugs for 31 years and 30,000 miles and works perfectly.
  From the Owners Manual for that bike-


Offline mark

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2009, 07:36:22 AM »
No.

Use the ngk d8ea or d7ea's. Plentiful and easily found.


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Offline mlinder

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2009, 07:36:58 AM »
Maybe the canadian model didnt have resistor boots/wires...?
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Offline Steve F

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2009, 10:13:50 AM »
OK, this has been addressed before, but I couldn't find the previous posts.  Someone posted (possibly Hondaman or TwoTired) saying that you need to have some resistance in the spark circuit, either in the plug or the wires, but not both.  My problem, is I'm running solid copper wires and non-resistor plugs on DYNA 3-ohm coils.  Should I get the resitor plugs?  Do I really NEED them?  I don't give a rat's @ss about radio interference if that point should come up.
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Offline HondanutRider

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2009, 10:19:39 AM »
Maybe I should have clarified:  My SOHC/4 bike is a 1974 CB350F, but I also have numerous other earlier Hondas - C105, S65 (currently not too healthy), C95, CB160, CB77, and SL100.  Some of these bikes have the non-resistor plugs installed and others have the resistor type.  The CB350F, S65, C106, and SL100 all currently have resistor plugs.  I'm pretty sure none of the bikes have resistor caps or leads.

Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2009, 10:31:01 AM »
steve, you do not need them. The whole thing is your charging system and its ability to keep up. I suppose points might wear out sooner but if you got dyna 3 ohm, you probably do not have points. I do not give a rats hind about radio interference either. If a cage is that damn close, I have worse things to worry about then!

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2009, 10:53:13 AM »
Maybe the canadian model didnt have resistor boots/wires...?
Canada may have had different radio interference standards than the US. Today, I am not sure many people listen to AM radio anymore.
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Offline BeSeeingYou

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2009, 04:30:28 PM »
I found the NGK D8EA at Napa Autoparts.  They had the resister version too.  Around $2.00 each.

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2009, 04:31:37 PM »
I've been doing a bit of research and found some facts regarding the Resistor Spark Plug, that from an electrical point of view makes sense to me.  First of all, a resistor in the spark circuit will not slow down the generation of the spark, since once the voltage from the coil reaches the level of arcing, a spark will be generated.  The resistor comes into affect when the spark and its associated current is discharged - it slows it down.  This is why they "quieten" the noise of interference.  In slowing down the discharge, the arc/spark duration will be extended.  It will occur at the same time will last longer with a resistor in the circuit.  Also, because of this slower discharge of energy, the actual spark may not be as intense; in fact with higher resistances (e.g. over well over 10K Ohm) the spark may fail to generate in other than dry air.

The resistance of NGK Resistor Plugs is stated to be 5K Ohm, well below where it would appreciably decrease the spark intensity.  Nowhere can I find reliable reports where using Resistor Plugs will cause damage to older-style coils (or any coil) - and given the earlier electrical explanation of what is happening, it wouldn't make sense if it did.

My conclusion so far (unless a fair number of actual experiences counter dict) is that there will be no noticeable difference in using Resistor Plugs in the older Honda motorcycles.

Offline mlinder

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2009, 04:34:27 PM »
I got resistor plugs by accident on my cb750, wasnt paying attention. Ran like crap and fouled.
Changed to proper plugs, ran great.

Thats my awesome resistor plug story.
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upperlake04

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2009, 10:29:57 PM »
 That's as good as my  "78 750F3 has happily used the resistor plugs for 31 years and 30,000 miles and works perfectly" story.
  Hope we've helped everybody. ;D

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2009, 06:05:42 AM »
I wonder if using resistor plugs when the caps already have resistors will give bad results (when non-resistor plugs are OEM specified).  This might give too much resistance so that the spark is weakened.  On the other hand, if there is no resistance in the caps or wires, then I believe use of resistor plugs might be OK.  At least they seem to be running OK on my CB350F.  This might explain conflicting experiences.

Does anyone know when resistor caps and/or wires were applied to the SOHC/4 Hondas?

Offline Inigo Montoya

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2009, 08:58:38 AM »
I think all the us model had the resistor caps but I am not positive. However, it is all I ever find for replacement caps.

Offline Steve F

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2009, 10:49:14 AM »
I found the NGK D8EA at Napa Autoparts.  They had the resister version too.  Around $2.00 each.
Yep, that's where I get mine too.  Way better pricing than the Honda stealer dealer.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2009, 10:52:50 AM by Steve F »

Offline TwoTired

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Re: Resistor plugs - what's opinion on using?
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2009, 01:01:40 PM »
In-line resistors don't effect the firing voltage at the spark plug tips.  The actual gap and atmospheric conditions between the electrodes determines this.   Resistors don't drop a voltage across them until current is flowing (when the arc is established).  Then it has a limiting effect on the current and voltage peak development.   The resistors remove some of the high frequency components (slows the rise time of spark current event) in the wire core which can be radiated to nearby receptors. The energy isn't lost, it is spread out over a longer time period.  So, after the spark is established the spark voltage and current event is spread out over a longer period of time, making the spark event at the plug tips longer and able to more completely initiate the combustion cycle.

If a little is good, a lot is better, right?
No.  After the arc is established, the voltage requirement to maintain the arc is less than what it is to initiate the arc and plasma channel that's been created between the electrodes.  However, too much resistance will cause the spark maintenance level to be lost sooner, as it will drop the voltage coming from the coils during spark sustenance and therefore shorten the spark event.

How much is too much?
For the stock coils, probably more than about 10-15K on each lead.  The stock plug caps vary between 5K and 10K on production examples, among SOHC4s with point type ignitions.  All the 750's I've encountered had 5K plug caps.  550's seems to get 10K, usually.  But, I have found 550 examples with 5K (I don't know that these were as delivered from Honda though).
I couldn't find a spec for the NGK plug internal resistor, and I don't have any to measure.
I did measured one of the spark plugs from my chevy, which had an inline 5K resistor inside it.

I would guess that Canadian models that specified resistor plugs, used a 5K plug cap with a 5K internal resistance plug cap resulting in a 10K total resistance between spark plug and coil.  Something to note, is that since two spark plugs fire simultaneously, the total circuit resistance presented to the coil is quantified by the resistors in both legs of the circuit.  So, I don't think I'd want to use 10K plug caps and 5K resistors in the plug leads.

The effect of too much resistance:
When new parts are first employed, and on a nice warm day, nothing much.
However, these machines have a tuneup interval spec for a reason.  Part of which is, as the engine is used, the ignition components become less efficient.  Spark plug tips erode and require higher voltages to fire and maintain the arc event.  Points lose their crisp on/off behavior as well as proper dwell angle, and condensers can change value and/or increase their internal resistance.  It is when all these things happen that more resistance in the ignition circuit becomes a factor in firing and maintaining the arc across the spark plug tips.
In short, too high a resistance leads to more frequent components replacement, i.e. spark plugs, points, and condensers, particularly when the the bike is cold, causing the electric start to draw down battery voltage, or when the battery is low or is becoming marginal in power delivery.  In addition, other causes of low voltage getting to the coils can have an interactive effect on too much resistance in the ignition circuit, like power distribution within the bike, such as connector and switch contact voltage losses.

Your results may vary. ;D

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