Author Topic: '72 Kawasaki  (Read 5471 times)

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Offline Laminar

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'72 Kawasaki
« on: April 27, 2009, 11:12:52 AM »
A friend's dad has a '72 Kawasaki that's been sitting in his garage for the past 18 years. He'd like to get it up and running again and when his wife heard that I do that kind of thing, she thought they'd have me take a look at it and get it going again.

I don't know which model it is, but it's most likely to be a three cylinder two stroke 350, 500, or 750. How difficult are these to work on? I've fixed up and worked on all three of the bikes in my sig, so I'm not to scared about taking on a new challenge, but I've never touched a 2 stroke outside of my weed whacker.

Thoughts?

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2009, 11:58:46 AM »
Shouldn't be too hard.

Once you find out what size it is let me know and I'll see about sending you a copy of the factory manual.
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Offline mlinder

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2009, 04:22:06 PM »
2 strokes are generally pretty easy to work on.
No.


Offline MikeB

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2009, 04:31:17 PM »
2 strokes are generally pretty easy to work on.

+1 on that
2 strokes are all i have ever worked on untill this 650
If he wants to get rid of it let me know, had two H1s that I wish I'd never gotten rid of
good luck with it

Mike

Offline mlinder

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2009, 05:44:33 PM »
I've got a mach II 400 I'm about to tear into. Well, maybe at the end of May...
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Offline MikeB

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2009, 06:10:53 PM »
NICE 8) 8) does that one have the front disc ? 
I miss my 500 but hated the front drum on it
That was my 2nd street bike traded a 74 RD350 for it, the engine was in 3 boxes 
a least the buddy a got it from help me put it back together (1st exp.with split cases)

Very quick bikes  :o Just don't try to stop or corner to fast  :o

fuzzybutt

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2009, 06:53:35 PM »
that 750 was called "the widowmaker" good reason for it too. crazy powerband and they handle like theres a hinge in the middle of the frame. alot like an old vincent i'm told

Offline kirkn

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2009, 09:07:23 AM »
Y'know, I've wondered about that 'widowmaker' deal...

I remember reading an article by the then-editor of Motorcyclist magazine (Art Freidmann ??)  reminiscing about the 750 triple, and he felt that the 750 was a great handler and the rep was largely a carryover from the 500.  He reminisced about racing his own 750 'back in the day' and apparently he was a contemporary of Cook Nielsen and Phil Schilling on their much-more-famous Ducati.  Apparently, he and his 750 came in ahead of their Duck on occasion...


As for the project, I don't think it'll be too bad at all.  Particularly if the bike has been sitting INDOORS for all that time.  The only thing I'm thinking would be 'specialty' work would be replacing crank seals and bearings.  Don't the cranks on a multi-cylinder bike need to be pressed apart to replace seals and bearings?  On a single, the seals and bearings just fit in the case halves.  But on a multi.... ?

I remember my older brother was resurrecting a Suzuki GT550 (also a 2-stroke triple) and that was where HIS project ground to a halt was at needing to replace an 'interior' crank seal.

Hmmm...  and good luck with it, anyway.

Post some pictures of it, if you get the chance.

Kirk

Offline Bodain

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2009, 09:32:18 AM »
Top end on weedeaters are easy to work on since it has no valves and no cam. 2 strokes that have been sitting around for years typically need the seals replaced on the bottom end. I did a total restoration on a 1974 H1.... THen it's complete and time to ride it. As motorcycles go. What a disappointment.

The H1 was legenary in 1969 and 70. Each year after that Kawasaki detuned them and were selling them as touring bikes. So when you get to 74,75,76 they were nothing exceptional other than being weedeaters. Now I like an old weedeater. The problem with the Kawasaki's of the 70's are. Handling, and brakes generally suck bad. So I figured whats the point. If the 74 had the bang that a 69 model had the bad handling and brakes would have been tolerable.

No bang, no brakes, no handling. Whats the point? It's just a good conversation piece. Needless  to say I traded it for a Ducati....

I now have a 1985 Yamaha RZ 350 to satisfy my weedeater urge...
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1984 Kawasaki GPZ 750
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1974 Honda CB 750
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 08:54:30 AM »
The '69 and '70 were the Giant Killers! By 1972 they were about 10 HP less. In particular, California had pushed Kawi hard to clean them up, as the crankcases would slowy fill up with unburned oil and fuel from the too-rich oil injection - then the owner would blaze down a freeway onramp and leave a solid grey-white cloud that would leave smears on windshields, because it was so rich and greasy. By 1970, even some Midwest municipalities instituted two-stroke bike bans, due largely to this popular bike (they were everywhere!). They could beat almost anything in the 1/4 mile, but on average they burned out 1 CDI per year, sometimes catching the bike on fire in the process. It was, as far as I remember, the first production bike with a CDI, and boy, it needed it for keeping the plugs clean! But, it was not reliable in their beginning.

The frame geometry was such that stock, from the factory, the rear wheel was 12mm (almost 1/2" !) to the left of the centerline of the front wheel and engine, making miserable handling. This was finally fixed in the 1974 model (I did not work on any 1971-73, so it may have been sooner). The swingarm bushings on a stock, new bike already showed slop on many 1970 ones I saw, because of production tolerance problems.

The first 900-4 model(s) was similar. Kawi struggled with quality back then, for sure, but the bikes had more HP than most in their general class, and were lots cheaper, so they got popular.

When I came to Colorado in 1974, my neighbor had an H1 in Kawi green. I had my first chance to look over their improvements, which included some hoses (like Suzy's) to pull the gunk from the bottom of the crankcases so it wouldn't build up so much, and that stopped the crop dusting tendencies they had. Los Angeles even allowed Kawi to sell them there, after this mod. But the bike was so detuned I didn't even recognize it: the Blue Streak I remember would wheelstand in 1st or 2nd by merely pulling the throttle open to 1/2 or more: it was actually hard to ride in town when it came "on pipe" until you got friendly with it. This show was sharply over at 7500 RPM (redline) because the bearings were not getting enough oil, which I'm sure was why Kawi had the early one's oilers turned up so high. The 1974 model felt like a decent 650 Twin in power, by comparison. And, here in Colorado, most would only start and run well below 8000 feet: many's the time I had to push my neighbor's H1 to get it to start when we were on a ride with others in the mountains, because the  compression in the engine was so much lower (to reduce heating and the need for oiling). He always talked about "trading back" to a Blue Streak H1, but never did, as far as I know. Other H1 owners around here rode in groups, and I would encounter them on weekend mountain rides: there were a lot of them out here, through the early 1980s, so they much have gotten more reliable with the detune.

My 750, with my first wife and Vetter fairing aboard, could easily stomp him, which REALLY surprised me! But, that's what became of that legend....  ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2009, 05:24:31 AM »
Hmmm. I guues a trip over to ride some old Kawasakis would clear this up.

The 1969 and 1970 H1 Mach III 500 were the fastest production vehicle you could buy on planet when released. 60 horsepower and it came alive at 5,500 rpm. The 1970 Cycle World test list them as "superbikes". The bike handled no worse than a Honda CB450, a Suzuki Titan 500, or a XS1. People got hurt because they would get the bike up in the peaks (the "band" as it's nicknamed between peak torque and horsepower) and none of the 3 mentioned would have the brakes or geometry to handle it. Tires, brakes, and skill were all in short supply. The 500's redline at 8,500 and easily will allow 9,500 through the gears with chambers. Both the 500's and 750's had their engines mounted high and rearward, so Kawasaki added length to the swingarms in 1973. The numbers for the 500's went from 60 to 58, then to 53 for the 1976 KH500 - it's last and most refined year of production. This is the only H1 that did not need a steering damper because of it's all new frame. Weight and stricter noise regulations hurt the bike's mo-jo more than anything. I will say that a well tuned 1974 and a 1976 with chambers and good filter will beat my 1970.., so the potential was there.

The 750 was a dog in comparison. It did win the 1973 "Super Bike shootout" with it's 1/4 mile times, track performance, top speed, and it's braking. It's funny to read the author's comments about riding it through the 1/4 mile. He says "getting the best out of the Mach IV is a violent series of up and down motions". But, figure the 750 made 74 horsepower in it's best 1972 trip and the 500 made 60 -- you quickly realize that Kawasaki detuned it's performance to make more mid-range torque and more civilized. Had the 750 been tuned to the H1's specs - it would have 90 horsepower. Even with it's lower output, the Mach IV will lift the tire anytime the trotlle is held in 1st or 2nd after 5,000. These redline at 7,500. There are 200 horsepower 750's out there tearing up the drag strip. I know of 4 street bikes that are making 150+, but they don't behave well.

Triples are a good investment in my opinion. I've restored several and have watched parts and bikes go up and dowm in price, but it's a ood bet you'll be able to sell after you're through enjoying.

Gordon



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Offline HondaMan

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2009, 05:49:11 AM »
Hmmm. I guues a trip over to ride some old Kawasakis would clear this up.

The 1969 and 1970 H1 Mach III 500 were the fastest production vehicle you could buy on planet when released. 60 horsepower and it came alive at 5,500 rpm. The 500's redline at 8,500 and easily will allow 9,500 through the gears with chambers.

Oops, sorry!  :-[  You're right about that redline: I was remembering the 750-3, here.

But, figure the 750 made 74 horsepower in it's best 1972 trip and the 500 made 60 -- you quickly realize that Kawasaki detuned it's performance to make more mid-range torque and more civilized. Had the 750 been tuned to the H1's specs - it would have 90 horsepower.

Gordon

I had a streetfighter friend who realized this same thing, and he had both the Blue Streak and the 750-3. So, he studied the 2 port arrangements and made his 750 the same port timing as the 500, then added Hodaka-like port fingers above that for another 20+ degrees of crank rotation. Then he milled the heads to get 10:1 compression ratio. The result: although he almost had to push the bike away from a stopsign in a "normal" start, a power start always required leaning way forward to prevent instant wheelies! Bruce had amazing reflexes, though: I remember talking with him over our parts counter one hot afternoon, and a fly was buzzing around us. When it landed on the counter, he snapped out and nabbed it between his thumb and forefinger, and just held it there until we were done talking, then let it go, unharmed.

Many Saturday nites I would watch him dusting off all comers in Macomb. One afternoon by the Dairy Queen, I saw him coming and waved: he waved back and pulled the throttle, and the bike stood straight up, flipped 180 degrees, and took off in the opposite direction! Fortunately, there was no one behind him at the time, and he jumped lanes, turned around and came back. I asked him what he was doing, and he just smiled and said, "It has demons that do strange things to the handling in 2nd gear. That's not the first time it did that to me."

Later that summer, I was buzzing to Chicago on the interstate in my El Camino hotrod when I saw a 750-3 overtaking me. It was Bruce: he road-runnered me when he got next to me, and I waved: he rolled up the throttle, stood it straight up, and took off ahead of me on just the rear wheel, changing lanes around the traffic, and rode out of sight, still straight up. You could tell where he'd been: I drove through the 'blue trail' for about 15 more minutes. Boy, could he ride!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 08:25:54 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline Maxacceleration

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2009, 07:58:11 AM »
Don't be swayed by opinions.
The triple Kawis of the era are classic.
Slow stock?
Chambers, jetting and porting and you will be a believer.
Trust me.

A two stroke coming on the pipe can be hard to turn, thus all the wadded and death stories.
I've had friend die on the 750 triple and RD. Speed was always a contributor.
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Offline RRRToolSolutions

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2009, 08:35:29 AM »
I will say that I've experienced every triple made, except the T250 S1 and the S2 350, but that's about to change - I'm helping a friend build one now.

In this photo right to left - 1976 KH500, 1974 H1F, 1970 H1, 1974 H2B, 1975 H2C, and in the 2nd pic is the nasty, ill-mannered 150+ H2B. None of these handles bad. Do they out-perform their tire and frame geometry? Yes, if pushed, they will bite, mame, and kill. If you want to corner hard on the H1 at 6,000 rpm - you will quickly understand what the Motocycle Safety Foundation's "traction pie" is all about.

If you want to keep the throttle on the Green bike past 6,500, you will see that "traction pie" burnt to h3ll in a flash. This ill-mannered thing goes from nothing to way-too-much in about 500 rpm.

Gordon





« Last Edit: May 01, 2009, 08:40:42 AM by Ilbikes »
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Offline Maxacceleration

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2009, 10:53:09 AM »
To ride the 70's street two strokers well, it is good to know the 70's two stroke dirt bikes also.
Off/on power deliveries.  All or nuthin'...   ;D
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2009, 08:30:33 PM »
I will say that I've experienced every triple made, except the T250 S1 and the S2 350, but that's about to change - I'm helping a friend build one now.

In this photo right to left - 1976 KH500, 1974 H1F, 1970 H1, 1974 H2B, 1975 H2C, and in the 2nd pic is the nasty, ill-mannered 150+ H2B. None of these handles bad. Do they out-perform their tire and frame geometry? Yes, if pushed, they will bite, mame, and kill. If you want to corner hard on the H1 at 6,000 rpm - you will quickly understand what the Motocycle Safety Foundation's "traction pie" is all about.

If you want to keep the throttle on the Green bike past 6,500, you will see that "traction pie" burnt to h3ll in a flash. This ill-mannered thing goes from nothing to way-too-much in about 500 rpm.

Gordon




That sure is a beautiful Green Machine, Gordon!
What engine mods got it to this semi-tractable, savage stage? Heck, like Bruce's bike, they were not-to-be-contended-with rides in the 1970s, with just the addition of pipes!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

fuzzybutt

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2009, 09:55:24 PM »
cant wait till i get that titan together

Offline Laminar

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2009, 09:41:14 PM »
I just picked it up today. It's complete minus the seat, the chrome is in good shape. The air filter is a piece of crap, but the spark plugs are new, the battery looks good, the engine turns over.

I'll get a new filter, pick up a seat, clean out the carbs, change the oil, and see what happens. There might be some electrical issues, though, as the only light that seems to work is the taillight.














Offline toycollector10

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2009, 02:05:05 AM »
This sort of sums up the spirit of the age and the bike...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value=" name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src=" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
1969  CB 750 K0
1973  CB175
1973  Z1 Kawasaki

Offline Laminar

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2009, 01:09:20 PM »
Oh, and a quick check of the serial number tells me it's a '74 H1. Now to find a good online resource and a service manual.

Offline hoodellyhoo

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2009, 01:42:47 PM »
SWEET!!! 8) 8) 8)
1972 CB350F (Back from the Dead!)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=20822.0
1965? S65 - Coming Eventually!
1972 CB750K2 (father-son project)
1976 CB750K6- (sold) http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=96859.0
1976 CB750K6 (sold)- http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=62569.0

Offline HavocTurbo

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #21 on: June 28, 2009, 02:47:13 PM »
Oh, and a quick check of the serial number tells me it's a '74 H1. Now to find a good online resource and a service manual.

I think I have a few NOS parts lying around. I'll have to check.

They were in a bundle with some old NOS cb750 stuff and everything looked pretty clean.
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Offline Laminar

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #22 on: June 28, 2009, 09:15:55 PM »
I think I have a few NOS parts lying around. I'll have to check.

They were in a bundle with some old NOS cb750 stuff and everything looked pretty clean.

Sweet. The seat and air filter are the only big things I can see needing right now, everything else seems to be in pretty good shape.

I got it started tonight, but since it's a 2 stroke it started pouring smoke into my garage, so I decided to wait until tomorrow when I could work outside without waking up everyone on my block.

Offline kirkn

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Re: '72 Kawasaki
« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2009, 01:44:03 PM »


since it's a 2 stroke it started pouring smoke into my garage,



LOL!  When I first acquired and got running my '77 Hodaka 250, I started it with a spritz of spray start, so it only ran for about 3 seconds, but there must've been a LOT of residual oil in the crankcase, 'cause it filled the garage (and subsequently the HOUSE) with nasty 2-stroke smell for HOURS...

 :D