Author Topic: You guys know motorcycles, but what about cars..... (Read 2819 times)

DaytonGuy · « **on:** May 01, 2009, 12:43:10 PM »

Jeeps actually......

I have a 95 Cherokee that has a fairly violent wobble/shimmy at 55mph +/-. At time is causes me to momentarily hit my brakes to calm the thing down. I have new tires balanced and alignment. I can't tell if it's coming from the front or rear, but seems like the front. It happens when I accelerate to or through 55 mph and when I cost down through 55 mph. It seems to be intermittent as it does not happen every time and I have not been able to determine any specific conditions that cause it too happen.

Any thoughts? I am fairly mechanically inclined and can fix about anything I can take apart, but not too good a diagnosing issues. What should I check first?

Thanks,
Chris

sangyo soichiro · « **Reply #1 on:** May 01, 2009, 12:51:47 PM »

I have a '98 Wrangler.

The same thing happened to me a couple of years ago. At about 55 mph I got a violent shake. It was tire balance. One tire was actually bouncing! I got new tires and it went away.

If you indeed have the same problem I had, my guess is that one of the balance weights came off (perhaps some joker took it off), or the tire place didn't do a good job (not out of the realm of possibility).

Gordon · « **Reply #2 on:** May 01, 2009, 12:53:07 PM »

I'm thinking bad tie rod end or bad wheel bearing. If it were the tie rod, though, you'd think the shop that did the alignment would have noticed. With the front jacked up and steering locked, can you wiggle either of the front wheels? Do you have much play in the steering wheel?

Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er · « **Reply #3 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:23:08 PM »

ball joint

sangyo soichiro · « **Reply #4 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:37:10 PM »

Quote from: DaytonGuy on May 01, 2009, 12:43:10 PM

It happens when I accelerate to or through 55 mph and when I cost down through 55 mph. It seems to be intermittent as it does not happen every time and I have not been able to determine any specific conditions that cause it too happen.

Question: Does it only happen around 55 mph?

With my balance issue I had, there was a 'sweet spot' where it happened, also around 55 mph. Over 55 and under 55 it wasn't as bad. My guess was that the centrifugal force from the unbalanced tire just matched the suspension spring force when I was going about 55. This created a resonant-feedback-type phenomenon, and thus my Jeep got the shakes at 55.

One thing to check:
In the front (if it's a front tire, of course...) my sway bar came off from where it connects to the suspension. It came off because of the violent shaking. If yours is also off, then this might be evidence of an unbalanced front tire.

heffay · « **Reply #5 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:43:47 PM »

tires.

let me repeat that... tires.

if a tire breaks the belts or simply is out of balance by any amount... it can really affect high speed handling.
yes, i'd consider anything 55mph and above high speed for a jeep.

i've had countless problems like this and every time it was tires.

i recently had the same 55mph problem on my trooper w/ low mileage craigslist dunlops. the A/T dunlops were the issue... sometimes you just have to compromise handling characteristics for 4x4 beefiness.

sangyo soichiro · « **Reply #6 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:47:02 PM »

We should turn this into a poll. Whichever suspected problem gets the most votes, must be the cause.

heffay · « **Reply #7 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:48:01 PM »

i am right... no need for a poll

no, seriously.

Joel · « **Reply #8 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:48:14 PM »

Have you checked the driveshafts? I drove an '85 Chevy van (not can) back in the day that started having a shimmy at speed and I believe it was one of the u-joints going bad. There's twice as many to go bad if you have a 4x4.

billybobobrain · « **Reply #9 on:** May 01, 2009, 01:59:50 PM »

Quote from: DaytonGuy on May 01, 2009, 12:43:10 PM

Jeeps actually......

I have a 95 Cherokee that has a fairly violent wobble/shimmy at 55mph +/-. At time is causes me to momentarily hit my brakes to calm the thing down. I have new tires balanced and alignment. I can't tell if it's coming from the front or rear, but seems like the front. It happens when I accelerate to or through 55 mph and when I cost down through 55 mph. It seems to be intermittent as it does not happen every time and I have not been able to determine any specific conditions that cause it too happen.

Any thoughts? I am fairly mechanically inclined and can fix about anything I can take apart, but not too good a diagnosing issues. What should I check first?

Thanks,
Chris

Who ever balanced your tires did a crappy job.

billybobobrain · « **Reply #10 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:00:39 PM »

Quote from: heffay on May 01, 2009, 01:43:47 PM

tires.

let me repeat that... tires.

if a tire breaks the belts or simply is out of balance by any amount... it can really affect high speed handling.
yes, i'd consider anything 55mph and above high speed for a jeep.

i've had countless problems like this and every time it was tires.

i recently had the same 55mph problem on my trooper w/ low mileage craigslist dunlops. the A/T dunlops were the issue... sometimes you just have to compromise handling characteristics for 4x4 beefiness.

+1

heffay · « **Reply #11 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:07:46 PM »

my brand new studded snow tires are loud and clunky installed on my mercedes benz...

just ask me if i can get my rear wheel drive benz outa slippy situations before the local soccer mom w/ 4x4 subaru. sorry gordon

Inkscars · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:36:28 PM »

First I would ask myself. "it the whole jeep shaking? or is just the steering wheel."
Here's what I would do to self diag ranging from easiest.

I would check my lug nuts. Sometimes loose lug nuts can cause a vibration (it happens to everyone)

I would check the condition of the u joints. Worn or weak ujoints are usually accompanied by a knock or clank when engaged into gear, so if you're not experiencing that, then chances are, it is not ujoints.

Then I would would put it up on jack stands or if you can get a lift and check for high spots in the tires. Could be belts in the tires, or lack of rotating or even tread seperation.

(the concern sounds like chopped tires or an improperly balanced driveshaft or weak u joints to me)

BeSeeingYou · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2009, 02:51:17 PM »

Quote from: heffay on May 01, 2009, 01:48:01 PM

i am right... no need for a poll

no, seriously.

Yes, tires tires, tires. Or it could be drive shaft related.

I don't know this particular vehicle but could be worn hanger bearing if it has one. Or the rotoflex coupling if it has one. I would focus on the tires first though. Is it coming from the front or rear. Swap the tires around and see if it changes. If from the front you should be able to really feel it through the steering wheel.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2009, 03:01:14 PM »

We had a CJ5 in a few weeks back that had stiff ball joints.There is a spec for turning the spindle(with wheel off and tie rod disconnected).If it takes more than 10 ft. lbs.,it is too tight. Our CJ was 15 on one side and 18 on the other. When replacing ball joints,make sure they are properly torqued.

heffay · « **Reply #15 on:** May 01, 2009, 03:07:50 PM »

handling issues start at the ground and work up... suspension bits only need to absorb what the tires wont. the frame only needs to absorb what the suspension won't. the human body only needs to absorb what the frame won't. (very simplified version because, i'm simple like that

)

work from the ground up.

sangyo soichiro · « **Reply #16 on:** May 01, 2009, 03:10:16 PM »

Quote from: heffay on May 01, 2009, 03:07:50 PM

work from the ground up.

This is a great point! DaytonGuy, are you sure you're not just riding over potholes?

fuzzybutt · « **Reply #17 on:** May 01, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »

sounds like belt seperation in a tire or 2 to me.

DaytonGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** May 01, 2009, 04:29:10 PM »

Damn.....potholes. I do live in Dayton, OH....maybe that's it!

OK....the tires are three days old. But I guess there's a chance they could be bad, but the jeep did this a little before the new tires, so I'm guessing not the tires....but I'll check. It seems the new tires have made it easier for the shakes to take hold. It used to be just when I drove over a bump in the road at the same time I was in a slight curve. Hitting bumps in a straight away would cause nothing.

Ball Joints - I was planning on checking them. I have no idea what condition they are in.

U-Joints - I think this is probably the problem. I do get a small "clunk" in the rear end when I engage the accelerator and when I release it. Plus, there are times when it feels like the shaking starts in the rear wheels, but once it gets going, it shakes like a MFer until I slow down below 55 or push on through to 60.

Wheel Bearings - How would one check a wheel bearing? I'm sure I can change them, but how do I know if they are bad?

Also...thanks for all of the comments and suggestions. This is great!

heffay · « **Reply #19 on:** May 01, 2009, 04:32:46 PM »

tires are 3 days old. new symptoms occur.

make them go re-balance for humor's sake.

billybobobrain · « **Reply #20 on:** May 01, 2009, 04:44:17 PM »

I would bet money on out of balance tires, if your u joints were bad it would vibrate inconsistantly. out of balance tires pick a speed somewere around 50mph and shake the hell out of you.

Frankencake · « **Reply #21 on:** May 01, 2009, 05:19:57 PM »

Quote from: heffay on May 01, 2009, 01:48:01 PM

i am right... no need for a poll

I agree with you by the way. My old co-worker had a way of saying it: Believe me now or believe me later. That tended to get me riled up when he said it because I knew he was always right

no, seriously.

fuzzybutt · « **Reply #22 on:** May 01, 2009, 06:08:52 PM »

oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh i had a camaro clunk when hitting the accelerator once. ended up being fried pinion gear bearing though.

DaytonGuy · « **Reply #23 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:08:16 PM »

I'll go back and have them re-balance the tires, but the shaking was there before the tires were replaced. The new tires just seams to make the shaking more frequent. This happened about 3 years ago or so and I found a broken stabilizer link and I replaced the steering stabilizer while I was at it. Shaking stopped. Both of the stabilizer links look good now. I guess the steering stabilizer could be bad again...

I have also had a small trans leak at the cooling lines where they enter the radiator. It has leaked for some time now. Does trans fluid damage rubber bits? If so, there may be several things working in combination here. Any of the rubber bushings on the driver side suspension could be ate up.

What about tie rods? How do I check them to see if they are bad?

As you can see...this is a beater jeep with 175K miles, but it's my daily driver for now, so I'm gonna keep at it until I figure it out.

mattcoff1 · « **Reply #24 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:27:55 PM »

Hello
Do a search on the internet for jeep death wobble shake this is well known and there is no one quick fix my ex just traded in her jeep for the same reason...
Good luck I wouldnt spend much trying to fix this as its well known and can be very costly

Matt

Joel · « **Reply #25 on:** May 01, 2009, 08:59:03 PM »

Does your Jeep have a suspension lift? Is the shaking accompanied by any noises? Does the clunking occur only with accelerator pedal application or also in and out of gear?

heffay · « **Reply #26 on:** May 01, 2009, 11:44:24 PM »

the clunking is from my own vocabulary in this thread.. the original poster said nothing about a clunk.

and actually, my new snow tires don't clunk... they're just loud with a bit of unbalanced thump.

DaytonGuy · « **Reply #27 on:** May 02, 2009, 05:40:50 AM »

I have searched the web and have found alot of stuff about the death wobble. There is never just one (or two) possibilities. Basically, like you guys have said, it could be any component of the suspension. I'll start with the easiest/cheapest things and work my way from there. As long as it doesn't get worse, I should be fine. I'll cut back on interstate travel a little.

I'll let you know what I find.

Thanks,

Chris

heffay · « **Reply #28 on:** May 02, 2009, 09:17:00 AM »

and accept that you drive a beater.

haha... jk... even beaters can ride nice.

not usually tho... that's why they're called beaters.

DaytonGuy · « **Reply #29 on:** May 02, 2009, 10:24:37 AM »

Unfortunatley for me....I accepted that LONG ago...... $:-\$

heffay · « **Reply #30 on:** May 02, 2009, 10:28:23 AM »

even my mercedes benz would be considered a beater to a good portion of the population... for me, it is one of the best cars i've ever owned.

perspective, my friend, perspective.

DaytonGuy · « **Reply #31 on:** May 02, 2009, 03:57:20 PM »

Well said!

fuzzybutt · « **Reply #32 on:** May 02, 2009, 04:01:55 PM »

my elderly 400k + mile saturn is the best car i ever owned and i consider it my ol' beater. it has haules bales of hay, bags of horse feed, dead deer and turkeys outta the woods and it's ungly as sin now, still a great car.

78 k550 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 02, 2009, 08:04:30 PM »

it is usually a bad trac bar. lower control arm bushings will do it. along with bad shock. Just type in death wobble and you will find all sorts of stuff.
I have a 93 lifted.

Paul

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Author Topic: You guys know motorcycles, but what about cars..... (Read 2819 times)

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