Topic: And to show everyone what I've been up to...

[SClay115]

I spend a lot of time on here asking questions about seemingly random things, and I thought it'd be a nice thing to actually show everyone what I've been up to as of late. I'm pretty much done with it, you'll notice in the pictures that the tins are only laying on the bike, that's because they are not cleared, and they are still curing, but everything mechanical is done. Well, except for the seat, that's not finished, so that's not on there either! Call it whatever type of bike you want to, put it in a 'category', but I set out to put together something that isn't wild or crazy, but really something you might be able to find on a showroom floor when the bikes were still available new as maybe a custom or a racer. I think it's pretty damn close. Lots of things done, but lots of little things, some hard to spot, others not so much. I friggin' love it, and I hope you folks dig it too.









And for reference, the barcolounger on wheels after I got it on the road after initial purchase:



Steve

[Tim.]

Awesome looking bike - many would categorize it as 'brat style'.  What are the plans for the seat?

One of our members recently had a seat done - something similar would look good on your bike:

http://dotheton.com/index.php?topic=8529.0

[Tim.]

Is that a 2 into 1 manifold on the carb?  How do you find it works?

[HavocTurbo]

I seriously dig the 2-1 intake.

I also like the color choice. Very subtle.

[SClay115]

Yah I'm over there on DTT too, but don't head up there much anymore, maybe I'll post this up there too. It's true, some would coin it as 'bratstyle', however, that's actually a company: http://www.bratstyle.com/ and don't think it needs to be labeled as such since that is absolutely not the only inspiration I had to build it in the way I did. Not tryin' to be an ass about it, but just the way I feel. Similar to how everything is a chopper/bobber/old skool(yes not school)/cafe racer these days. Labels are the suck. Just my .02 cents.


The seat is actually very close to being done, the pan is made already and is going to be covered shortly, similar to the style you posted. Just was more focused on getting the paint and mechanicals done. But should be cool, and will probably be a bit more comfortable than the seat rails!

The manifold works great. And it's not that I mind two carbs, I just want to be able to ride this thing anywhere and not have to be dealing with diagnosing two carbs if there is ever a problem. Before, when the bike was in couch mode, they were on there, ran good, once you got em right, and honestly, I feel no difference between then and now. If anything this is crisper since there is absolutely no difference in the amount of fuel the cylinders are receiving. Easy to jet, easy to diag, easy to work on, looks different, sounds friggin amazing, and it was just something else fun for me to fabricate. I'll probably end up putting the other carb on my Honda, in the same format, it runs that good. Fun fact, since the 650 crank is a 360 degree jobber, the jetting barely changes, you need a little bit more go juice to fill the manifold to help with roll on throttle, but since only one cylinder is suckin' up fuel at one time, the carb has no problem supplying it.

Steve

P.S. I am ridiculously stoked to see that video of your bike running. Been keeping track of that thing for a long time.

[SClay115]

I seriously dig the 2-1 intake.

I also like the color choice. Very subtle.

Thanks Havoc, that's what I was going for, as mentioned, I wanted something that to someone who isn't really looking for the differences, it really looks like a stock motorcycle. I get enough hell on my little Honda for it being white and gold with an exhaust resembling a top fuel drag car to deal with that on this one. I just want to ride this thing under the radar.

Steve

[HavocTurbo]

Did you make the intake? Or was it something you found?

I don't know much about aftermarket style for the 650. I'm a dirt guy when it comes to those bikes.

[SClay115]

Made it. Really fairly simple. made some flanges out of some steel, almost blew up my drill putting the intake holes into the flanges with a hole saw. Then just fishmouthed a separate piece for the carb mount. Inefficient? Sure probably a bit, but like the XS650 engine is the most efficient lump on the planet right? 

But about the style thing, I realize from that post I may have come off a bit brash. I really didn't mean it like that. Sort of like lumping every single chopper in a category and calling them Harley's. I hope that anyone that reads that post and this one can see what I mean.

But there are only a few different manifold designs I've seen for these bikes. Not a super popular thing so it was a bit hard to dig up info. Have seen a bunch of older KZ twins that run singles, got most of my information from them. Good stuffs.

Steve

[HavocTurbo]

Well I agree that the 360 crank helps.

If you have any picsof the intake up close and personal.... I'd be interested.

I have a spare 650 engine lying around and have yet to be inspired with ideas for it until now... 

[Ecosse]

man that's one cool bike! there's some interesting site about those motors. i'll try to find it if you're not familiar.

nicely done!

edit: here it is http://www.650motorcycles.com/277engines.html

i know nothing about these so if this doesn't apply to you a admit my dunce-ness. 

[Ecosse]

from the above site.

"Basically, with a 277° crank design twin cylinder engine when the number one piston is at zero velocity at top dead center, piston number two is at or near its maximum velocity. Rod length and crankshaft stroke can vary this exact 90° point but that length is insignificant compared to the more effective rotational momentum impulse changes that are actually turning the crankshaft. This makes the engine crankshaft impulse delivery smoother compared to a standard 360° crankshaft twin where both pistons are at TDC and BDC together, even though they are on equally spaced "rocking couple" power strokes. Additionally, the exhaust sound also changes from two equally spaced notes, into two close pulses like that of an Italian Ducati motorcycle for example."

[SClay115]

I've seen that Ecosse, pretty cool too. If you listen to the sound clips it sounds, obviously, completely different than the factory 360 crank engine. Maybe on the other engine I have, I found some nasty things in the pan on that one in the frame(hence why it's not very pretty), I decided to cut my losses and spend my time rebuilding/cleaning my spare bottom end, and might consider that 277 conversion....we'll see.

I've been getting a lot of questions on the intake, I wish I had taken some of it during the design and building, and of it off the bike. I decided not to take too many pictures during the build as it sort of deters me from my creative thinking. But maybe I will roll it outside today and see if I can get a little up close and personal on that manifold. It's really a very simple design.

Any questions just ask! Thanks for the comments guys.

Steve

[SClay115]

Ok, roller her out and shot some pictures of the manifold. Here they are. Nothing complicated here.











Disregard the crappy joints. My welder blows, it makes sound welds, but it looks terrible, so there is high temp epoxy on the joints to make it look semi-presentable.

Steve

[gerhed]

Great looking machine !--color scheme is reminiscent of some early Indy roadsters run by Gilmore.
About the intake.
Do you think the extended length (ram induction?) gives you better low end, as I've heard
advertised, in the past ?
Any trade off on the top end ?

[Ecosse]

hope you made a jig, or pattern, 'cause i see a little business here. nicely done.

[fuzzybutt]

thats about the nicest looking xs650 i've ever seen! great color choices, very subtle.

[SClay115]

Alright, lets see if I can answer everyone's questions here...

First, Gerhed, I do believe it helps in low end, it was never a real good top end breather, so I wasn't concerned about it, but the low end power is right on the money. Nothing like breaking lose a 5.00 tire when the bike is still in mock up stage with no tags! But really, it is either as good as, or better than the two carbs, I know it may sound hard to believe, but it simply is, maybe I had it tuned wrong, or maybe this just works better, whatever it is, I'm stickin' with it. And the colors, tried to run a quick google search for the cars you speak up, couldn't come up with anything. Someone on another forum mentioned the GeeBee race planes, and it's funny, because that's right on the money. Was a huge fan of those things when I was younger, and while it's not white and red, the cream/tan and red looks similar. And thanks for the compliments on the paint! You should've seen me, giddy  as a school girl when I pulled that tape off for the first time...

Ecosse, thanks for the props on the manifold, it wouldn't be altogether too hard for me to yank that manifold off and make a jig to weld them up for mass production, it's really very simple. However, I'd need a better welder before I'd attempt something like that for a customer basis. Want to loan me some capital?  I see a lot of problems with jetting problems in general on the XS's, almost more so with theses VM's, while awesome carbs, they take fiddling to get right, and if you only have to fiddle with one carb, well, that's half the work! 

fuzzybutt, thanks to you too. I wanted to try and put something together that is very subtle. I think I mentioned it in an above post where I was looking to build a factory looking custom, something that almost looks like it's not even modified. No flashy paint, no gold frame like my 350 twin, no 400 decibel exhaust.. just a cool bike that means the right thing to the right people, while built for myself, a similar mind can appreciate it just as well as I can. Which is why most of the stuff is back on there. The inner plastic fender, the centerstand(heavily shortened), factory footpegs, just, normal, but with a huge helping of custom mixed in.

Glad you guys like it. Can't wait until it's finally done all the way. Will for sure post up some pictures then...



Thanks again guys..

[neil young]

WOW...very very nice

[Ecosse]

capitol? 

a suggestion might be a manifold for dual carbs for a 400, 500/550, and or 650. cycle x has one for the 750 so it seems somewhat viable.

[Spillman]

Love it man. Great color choices and that 2 to 1 intake is very nice.

[gerhed]

SClay,

This was the machine I was thinking of--in the Indy Museum.
Seems to be a J.C. Agajanian roadster probably from the late
50's. Although Parnelli Jones did win Indy in '62 (BTW--I was there) in a #98 owned by Agajanian,
but this car looks older.
Not exactly the same colors but....
<a href="http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/gearheaded_photos/IndyClr.swf" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u251/gearheaded_photos/IndyClr.swf</a>

[Flying J]

Im going to keep an eye on this one. Very Cool

[SClay115]

Ecosse, capitol? Capital? I thought I got that usage right!? And yah I'd love to start doing this for a little bit of side work and see where it goes. Fab work and design is certainly one of my favorite activities and I would love for it to pay off. Hell, I'd just build bikes all day if I could. Out of curiosity though, how much do you think a manifold like this would sell for? Consider I'd make the option of buying it in raw steel and the other in stainless, I wouldn't even know where to start on pricing...what would you guys think?

Spillman, thanks! The manifold has generated quite a stir and I'm glad the collective internet folk can get behind it. I really wasn't quite sure what people would think. And I truly wish everyone who either has questions or concerns considering the validity of my statements that it works as good as or better than the two carbs could come ride this bike. Perhaps once the bike is totally on the road I will get some video of it rockin' out.

Gerhed, too cool! Cool because you were there! And cool because I didn't even know about that machine, but it is so true! That is really very similar. Maybe somewhere deep down inside in my subconscious I had seen it at one point in time and it surfaced in this bike. But absolutely cool.

jmoore, thanks! I hope to be posting up completely finished pictures within the next week and a half, so definitely check back.

Something I should clear up guys, as it was asked on another forum is that rear fender is laying on the tire, and it is not so in the final design. It will be up against the bottom of that rear hoop. Someone had asked whether I was going to hit the rear hoop with the fender, and I wanted to clear up that the fender is absolutely not in the final position. There will be suspension travel, this is a rider.

Steve

[Ecosse]

Ecosse, capitol? Capital? I thought I got that usage right!?

no man, you are right and it's my spelling that's off. i was laughing at the concept of me having money.

[Flying J]

as far as pricing here is what the full setup from cycle x cost.
http://www.cyclexchange.net/Carb%20System%20Comp%20Page.htm