Topic: How to make your CB750 stop like a modern bike....

[ev0lution7]

this is a simplified guide... not a debate over pickey sizes of parts and sizes of M/C's

1. disasemble front brake system... inspect ALL parts for damage...
2. Inspect M/C for dirt (make sure tiny holes in resiviour is clear) and dirty fluid Rebuild as nesissary (mine sat since 92' so i went ahead and rebuilt it..
3. install steal braided brake lines... (these help keep the rubber hoses under the braiding from flexing under heavy braking)
4. have stock disk resurfaced (scratched up in a non patern like to stop squeal )
5. take apart front caliper and inspect piston and seal
6. CLEAN with a sharp pick and GOOD LIGHTING the piston seal GROOVE this is very important (if you piston was stuck like mine... SEARCH for removing stuck piston with grease method)
7. inspect piston side surfaces for pitting if ANY pitting is present REPLACE PISTON (they are no longer available from honda i bought a BETTER than stock piston off EBAY for about $60 well worth the $$$)
8. install lines newly rebuild M/C and caliper clean caliper pivot shaft and install new O-rings and grease and adjust caliper
9. fill with fluid (i always look at WET boiling point for fluid the higher the better (Fairenhieght) Dot4 Synthetic
10. if you want the BEST in front brakes WITH OUT installing a second disk do what i'm doing and install a EBC FRONT ROTOR and if you want to keep a semi stock look paint the center BLACK to keep the stock look... also with this setup it will be "lighter" than a setup with dual disks... less unsprung weight...

now this just covers the FRONT END!!!!

REAR BRAKES:

if you have rear shoes (like i do) install EBC rear shoes and scuff up the drum with some course sand paper and work the paper in a swirl pattern.

use a LITTLE amount of grease on the PIVOT points of the shoes and the brake inside hardware to make movements smooooth

install and adjust to spec..... I can burn rubber with the rear tire @ 90mph with little to no effort on the peddal


as far as front brakes are concerned:

the EBC rotor will apearently fit ALL years of CB750's just the early ones you will have to trim some of the bottom of the pad off no big deal there is still PLENTY to stop with and this rotor is supior to any vintage front end (Gl1000 or others) that fit the cb750 as far as single or dual disks are concerned... Floating disks are way better than standard solid like disks for flex heating up... and non warping... and these brake VERY quite (no sqeaks   )

if your concerned about ruining the "look" of your bike they make steel braided lines in "black" so you dont see that "silver" color though the clear sheath on the line... http://www.z1enterprises.com/ carries brake lines for our bikes..


NOTE:

again this is what i did on my bike to keep the STOCK look of the bike and still make it handle and stop like a modern bike... i have NO problem in the corners shedding speed to make a turn or make a emergency stop... like ALL bikes even new ones you will need GOOD quality tires and proper infation to make your brake upgrades effective i worked very very hard to make sure that my brakes and suspension were upto modern standards BEFORE i added any power to the bike... also i like the STOCK look so i didnt want to make the bike look to radical or have someone not like the bike because it was a frankenstine...  i'm not here to debate dual disk VS single disk.... i'm simply stating that for COST vs. effort VS. complexity.... i always go by K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid) and the stock setup is simple, effective if done right, its cheap to fix and maintain. and i dont have to right down what calipers i got off this bike and what bolt that bike came from ect.... 

ON a side note i have GREAT lever feel now that those upgrades were made to the brakes no more "wooden" feel to the lever anymore!!!

Happy braking

[stephan]

where i can buy these ebc rotors??

i did not find any rotors four cb 750 k6 at EBC brakes.

[Soos]

Any clue if that EBC rotor will fit anything besides a 750?



l8r

[MCRider]

where i can buy these ebc rotors??

i did not find any rotors four cb 750 k6 at EBC brakes.

http://www.dynoman.net/brakes/ebc-apps.html

Scroll down about halfway.

I was told by another braking outfit that they sourced these from EBC. So its true.

I'm also looking into cryogenics for brake rotors.  Hints of reasonable pricing, but nothing firm yet.  http://www.cryogenicsofindiana.com/prod01.htm

[sandcastcb750]

Best bet, add a second disc brake

[MCRider]

Best bet, add a second disc brake

I've already done that several times. My avatar was one of the first do it yourself dual disc setups done back in 1971.

What we're talking about here is the efficacy and elegance of the single disc. Dual discs do not add absolute braking power, unless you change out the MC.

A perfectly setup single disc has a lot to be said for it, for our street applications.

[MCRider]

A follow up on EVOs list of things. re: the rear brake shoes can be "arc" ed.

http://www.race-tech.com/HTML_FILES/BrakeArcing.html

I've done the poor man's version by spinning the wheel, actuate the brake, disassemble, see where the high spots of the shoe are and file sand them down. Over and over till you get the bulk of the shoe touching the drum. Makes a difference often less than 20% of the shoe is touching.

Also, when insalling the drum wheel. Actuate the brake before tightening the axle. This centers the backing plate for maximum shoe/drum touch.

[ev0lution7]

IF YOU REALLY READ my post you will see that i'm trying to keep a STOCK!!! look to the bike and keep DOWN un-sprung weight...

IF you add DUAL disk you add weight and complexity to the bike and it no longer looks stock... and it can be ALOT of work...

what i posted was simple stuff you can do on a budget to make your bike stop faster without going though alot of trouble... and the parts are off the shelf parts you can BUY ANYWHERE!!!! that was always my idea when building this bike....

NOT a frankenstine bike... IE Cb550 spedo drive... parts from a early 750 parts from a VFR, GL, ect.....

this bike maintains CB750K7 funtions and also parts but has modern stoppping i just did OVER 300miles yesterday i had to to make a sudden stop with the front brake and WOW!!!! i almost went over the tank it stopped sooooo FAST!

[MCRider]

IF YOU REALLY READ my post you will see that i'm trying to keep a STOCK!!! look to the bike and keep DOWN un-sprung weight...

IF you add DUAL disk you add weight and complexity to the bike and it no longer looks stock... and it can be ALOT of work...

what i posted was simple stuff you can do on a budget to make your bike stop faster without going though alot of trouble... and the parts are off the shelf parts you can BUY ANYWHERE!!!! that was always my idea when building this bike....

NOT a frankenstine bike... IE Cb550 spedo drive... parts from a early 750 parts from a VFR, GL, ect.....

this bike maintains CB750K7 funtions and also parts but has modern stoppping i just did OVER 300miles yesterday i had to to make a sudden stop with the front brake and WOW!!!! i almost went over the tank it stopped sooooo FAST!

Does that performance include the EBC rotor or is that still on the wish list?  I'm wondering if the Cryo treatment on a stock disc for $20 is equivalent to the EBC, which I assume is a different material hence the improvement.

I had called them looking for a larger diameter rotor and they told me of their EBC rotor, in stock diameter, it is gaining popularity fast, I think for the reasons you suggest, keeping the stock look but improving performance.

[ev0lution7]

no the rotor is on the wish list....

but i base the extra proformance off of guys here and another CB750 i just helped a guy finish in town with one and his actually LOCKS the front tire @ speed... (same bake setup as mine)

but w/o the EBC rotor it still will scratch the tire and you really have to hang on the feel in the lever is noticable diffinetly NOT WODDEN! i made the emergency stop and my heart almost had an emergency! it was great for a 30+yr old bike.... and that EBC rotor on that cb750 was killer it was scarry specially with stock saggy springs i ordered the guy some progressive springs.. now that i got mine and he road my bike... (i actually chose springs over rotor i had really BAD front end dive!)

[MCRider]

no the rotor is on the wish list....

but i base the extra proformance off of guys here and another CB750 i just helped a guy finish in town with one and his actually LOCKS the front tire @ speed... (same bake setup as mine)

but w/o the EBC rotor it still will scratch the tire and you really have to hang on the feel in the lever is noticable diffinetly NOT WODDEN! i made the emergency stop and my heart almost had an emergency! it was great for a 30+yr old bike.... and that EBC rotor on that cb750 was killer it was scarry specially with stock saggy springs i ordered the guy some progressive springs.. now that i got mine and he road my bike... (i actually chose springs over rotor i had really BAD front end dive!)

That's all cool!  Gotta have good front end control. Springs for sure, emulators when you get a chance.

It was actually here http://cyclebrakes.com/ that I first learned of the EBC rotor. I had asked them about getting a larger diameter disc for my single disc "Rat Cafe" project. They said use the EBC rotor and pads and I'd have all the brake i want.

On a track bike where each lap is 10 panic stops, duals are probably necessary fopr  anti-fade and longevity. But on a street bike, with high tech materials, one should be fine. When I ride the twisties in S Indiana, we try to stay off the brakes and just motor through. But you need em when Bambi jumps out or Farmer john backs a tractor into the road.

[Frankenkit]

Soos, here, man.
http://www.cyclepages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=4021088
I'm interested, too.  I love the speed my 650 has, but stopping is kind of scary.  I'm glad I didn't even try to go w/o stainless steel lines or I mighta killed myself on my first ride.

If pple are saying there's not much benefit from rotor drilling/turning-down, this certainly piques my interest.

[MCRider]

Soos, here, man.
http://www.cyclepages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=4021088
I'm interested, too.  I love the speed my 650 has, but stopping is kind of scary.  I'm glad I didn't even try to go w/o stainless steel lines or I mighta killed myself on my first ride.

If pple are saying there's not much benefit from rotor drilling/turning-down, this certainly piques my interest.

Hello! Drilling and turning down has its purposes: cooling (multi-use) and lightening the wheel for handling. I don't think they contribute anything to the one-time stopping power. And of course the holes may look cool. Mine do I think.

Curious is the CB650 stock with dual discs?

[ev0lve]

NOT a frankenstine bike... IE Cb550 spedo drive...

A CB550 speedo drive is still not required. They are the same 550/750. Stop the madness 

[Frankenkit]

Soos, here, man.
http://www.cyclepages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=4021088
I'm interested, too.  I love the speed my 650 has, but stopping is kind of scary.  I'm glad I didn't even try to go w/o stainless steel lines or I mighta killed myself on my first ride.

If pple are saying there's not much benefit from rotor drilling/turning-down, this certainly piques my interest.

Hello! Drilling and turning down has its purposes: cooling (multi-use) and lightening the wheel for handling. I don't think they contribute anything to the one-time stopping power. And of course the holes may look cool. Mine do I think.

Curious is the CB650 stock with dual discs?

I believe the '81 and '82 customs were... but I could be wrong.  I think the nighthawks, at least the '83 ones were.  the 'standard' 79-82 CB650s and the '80 customs were single disc, however.

Sorry MCRider, I was JUST thinking in terms of one-time stopping power.  I'm no racer/twistyrider so the other stuff doesn't even show up as a blip on my radar.

[Soos]

Soos, here, man.
http://www.cyclepages.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=4021088
I'm interested, too.  I love the speed my 650 has, but stopping is kind of scary.  I'm glad I didn't even try to go w/o stainless steel lines or I mighta killed myself on my first ride.

If pple are saying there's not much benefit from rotor drilling/turning-down, this certainly piques my interest.

Well for a single disk, thats good, but the dual disk riders?
I have dual disks on my '79, and they were from a cb650c.
The dual disks for the 650 are thinner.
I wonder if two of those would work with a dual disk setup.(ie fit in the caliper)

I have (barely) fit a single disk in a dual caliper, but the clearance is almost nil.
It stopped well, but seemed to drag the brakes(no room to retract the puck??)




l8r

[ev0lution7]

i didnt relize that my topic would start so big geez i was just trying to give some tips for first timmmers to read and goooo AHH i want to stop better so i should do these things....

[Frankenkit]

soos, on one of the sites that came up under Cyclepages, they had '82-'83 cb650 dual disc discs, too.

here:
http://www.cyclewareables.com/pages/brake_rotor_ebs_honda/honda_brake_rotors_standard.htm
for the'81 650c front end, scroll down.  $199 a pop, though.

[Soos]

Looks like the same # as the single disk ones.

Mabey they are just a bit thinner than the single disk.


good to know, but at 400 for a dual setup.
ouch.
Although not being able to stop causes an ouch of another kind!!



l8r

[1974blaze]

yes!  this is perfect and i'm doing the lot of it! i'm going to pass on the ebc rotor for now and go with drilling and cryo-treating the stock rotor.  i assume that this takes care of the resurfacing needs right? and will this help with the yelp?  i'm tired of the sqeallingggggg!

[fishhead]

good to know, but at 400 for a dual setup.
ouch.

 Add another $100 to that and a GL 1000 front end and you could have a "Frankenbike" CB 750 that will stop like a modern bike, with modern brakes.
  This set up pictured shaved about 8-9 Lbs of unsprung weight off the front end and the loss of all that weight (old heavy calipers and discs) also improved handling .
 No, it aint everybodys "cup of tea" and if your a purist, you definetly wont like the looks of it.
 Me? I would rather stop than look original, but thats my "cup of tea".
 Too much is just enough.

[ev0lution7]

BUT you loose the stock TOP tripple tree that AND the stock fork headlight holder and gauge mounts and turn signal mounts

if you read the 1st page i said STOCK bike without modd'n the crud out of it these are SIMPLE things most guys can do with simple tools without fab'n something up....

and talk about handleing mine handles like never b4 check out my post on that in the tips and tricks i dont NEED the GL1000 front end to handle better i can drag pegs going 95+ on both sides and feel confident that the bike will stay on course!

[cb650]

As far as the 650's go the 81 custom and 82 nitehawk was dual disks. There was no 82 custom.   I always liked the look of the duals but when I started drag racing went to the single disk for lightness.  All I run now is single disk.  I can make the front plant so hard the rear gets to light. Unless I was on a track with sticky tires,no unexpected #$%* in the road and more balls I'm happy.

[fishhead]

BUT you loose the stock TOP tripple tree that AND the stock fork headlight holder and gauge mounts and turn signal mounts

Use the GL fork ears/headlight and modify the CB gauge mount to fit the GL forks. The CB idiot light cluster bolts to the GL forks. The average person who is "looking at an old Honda", won't know the difference between the GL front end and the CB front end. The purist will know the difference.

if you read the 1st page i said STOCK bike without modd'n the crud out of it these are SIMPLE things most guys can do with simple tools without fab'n something up....

My "Franken-biking" usually requires alot of fabbing and NO off the shelf parts (other than brake pads).
  Different strokes for different folks.

and talk about handleing mine handles like never b4 check out my post on that in the tips and tricks i dont NEED the GL1000 front end to handle better i can drag pegs going 95+ on both sides and feel confident that the bike will stay on course!

 I glad that you are happy with the handling and performance of your STOCK bike, that's what it is all about. My opinion (or anyone elses) should have no bearing on your satisfaction with your bike with what you have done to it.
 I prefer something different and that's why I make my brakes far better than stock could ever be.
 Of course, with the better front brakes I also needed better back brakes, so it was changed to a disc set up (also made with newer Sportbike components and NO off the shelf parts- other than brake pads).

[manjisann]

What makes the ebc rotor different from a drilled stock rotor?

Thanks,

Brandon