Topic: My CB400F oil change faux pas: advice needed

[Henry Dorset Case]

So i am happily cleaning up my garage and workbench tonight, whistling as I worked even, but my happy mood was darkened somewhat when I found the spring thats supposed to go between the outer oil filter cover, and the filter itself.  Its function seems to be so the filter is held against the front of the motor to ensure the oil goes through the filter.

I am looking for an alternative to pulling the filter cover to replace it because it would cost me ~$40 in new oil, plus its a hassle....

can I just leave it out till next oil/filter change or should I drain the oil, pull the cover and put the spring in.   My thinking is I probably should, because if Mr Honda didnt think it needed a spring, it wouldnt have had a spring...

any thoughts?

[Dennis]

can I just leave it out till next oil/filter change

any thoughts?

No!!

And where is the spring seat (the flat washer which is supposed to be between the spring and the filter element)?

[Henry Dorset Case]

thats a really good question.  I am going now to fossick through the rubbish bin in the garage.  Its a thin, steel washer, right, about 20mm OD, with an ID of about 15 mm



I was so happy tonight, until I realised what a dummy I had been.  arrrrghhh!!!

[paulages]

that's okay. i've changed my oil, only to find out i left off the o-ring, and it just started dripping everywhere.

[kyre]

why would you spend money on new oil. didn't you just change it? if you drain, put the spring/washer back on then put the oil back in, it's still new oil.

[Henry Dorset Case]

why would you spend money on new oil. didn't you just change it? if you drain, put the spring/washer back on then put the oil back in, it's still new oil.

when I first posted I wasnt sure that I could get the oil out and into a clean container for re-use.  I have since found something in the kitchen cupboard garage (you gave that to me ages ago, dont you remember) which will be perfect... big steel mixing bowl..

not doing it tonight will leave for tomorrow.


thanks for the responses.
 

[Jim Shea]

I do not remember seeing a 'spring seat' when I did my oil change(750 F1).
Does it tend to attach itself to the top of the old filter? if so I have thrown it in the bin! I do not have any leaks anywhere, what problem would losing the spring seat washer create?

[Bob Wessner]

I do not remember seeing a 'spring seat' when I did my oil change(750 F1).
Does it tend to attach itself to the top of the old filter? if so I have thrown it in the bin!

Happens often. It is a very thin washer and can either adhere to the old filter you are removing, or easily fall into whatever drain pan you might be using for your oil changes. Might not be a bad idea to copy yourself a pic of the oil filter assembly and put it somewhere in the garage so you can reference and account for all parts and their correct order at each oil change.

[Jim Shea]

Bob,
Good advice for future reference, thanks. So, I assume there should have been one on mine?
It may have been attached to the spring, but I don't think so! Can I wait until next oil change? Will I do any damage? I have ridden the bike several times since the oil change and everything seems fine.
Jim.

[Bob Wessner]

Can I wait until next oil change?

I'm with the "It's there for a reason crowd" so..

I have a number of PO modifications to my own bike along the way, most of the time it has been minor parts omissions and, even though the bike functioned properly many years ago (I rode it for several years as second owner prior to storage) I replace them as I encounter them. Maybe someone else can give you a better idea of the consequences of waiting.

[Jim Shea]

Bob,
I agree, it normally is there for a reason. I would hate to take the filter out and find it was there all along!!
Jim.

[SteveD CB500F]

why would you spend money on new oil. didn't you just change it? if you drain, put the spring/washer back on then put the oil back in, it's still new oil.

Jim.  As Kyre says.  Nothing wrong with taking out the oil, checking the springs/washers etc and then putting it back in again.

Peace of mind, mate.

[ofreen]

Can I wait until next oil change?

I'm with the "It's there for a reason crowd" so..

 Maybe someone else can give you a better idea of the consequences of waiting.

I lost the washer many years ago, myself.  The 750 had been in storage over 6 years, and I'd forgotten about the washer.  It sticks to the old filter and is obscured by oil, so is easy to miss.  I put it all back together without the washer and ran it that way until the next oil change.  When I took it apart next time, I found the end of the spring had dug into the center grommet of the oil filter.  The purpose of the washer is to keep that from happening.

Greg
'75 CB750F

[Jim Shea]

Thanks chaps.
Anyone know the dimension of the washer in question? (20mm OD, with an ID of about 15 mm)was mentioned? but what thickness?
Could I buy any washer of the correct size? I assume if I wait a while, I will need to fit a new filter as I would have damaged the previous one?

[SteveD CB500F]

Just ordered a 17mm bolt and 5 filters from DSS for my autumn oil change (both bikes - the 550 already has a 17mm bolt).

If you like, Jim, you can come on over and measure the washer when I take it out (assuming there is one in there of course...)

[Terry in Australia]

I like screw on filters. No springs, washers, (20mm ID, about 25 mm OD) "O" rings etc to lose, and when it's time to do an oil change, no nasty frozen oil filter bolts with cheesy 12mm heads! Screw on filters are good. Did I mention that I like screw on filters? Cheers, Terry.

[Jim Shea]

Right it's time for me to ask.. what is a screw on filter? what mod is needed to fit one?

[Bob Wessner]

They are like your standard can design filter similar to those used on autos, just screw on rather than a separate housing, pass-thru bolt and internal paper element. Terry in Australia sells the necessary mod.

[Jim Shea]

Sounds like a great idea! but is the mod something a novice(incompetent) mechanic can do?

[SteveD CB500F]

Go here.

www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=2760.msg28023#msg28023

[Bob Wessner]

Jim,

I've never done it, but I would think it is pretty straight forward. I also think, if you do a search on oil coolers here on the site, you would see some pics of the adapters he sells for both coolers and spin-on filters, and no, I'm not a shill for Terry.  

[nashvegas]

And where is the spring seat (the flat washer which is supposed to be between the spring and the filter element)?

Uh, there is a washer in there?  Um...I have changed the oil filter on my 400F as few times and needless to say I never noticed this part.  Suggestions?

Matthew

[bryanj]

WHY are you draining the oil to take the filter off? just remove the filter housing and a small amount of oil comes out. The washer is part number 15414-300-000 and the spring 15415-300-000 each part is less than £2 in the UK and when i put in an "order" to DSS it usually has 5 of each on there as although i dont service many anymore On the ones i do the washers are nearly always missing and whats wrong with replacing a 30 yr old spring at £2

[Jim Shea]

Hi Bryan,
Useful to know that I can take the filter off and it only drops a little bit of oil. Is it best to do this when the engine is cold(apart from burning yourself, obvioulsy)?
Thanks for the part #s I will order a new spring as well, cheap insurance really!
Cheers,
Jim.

[Dennis]

Useful to know that I can take the filter off and it only drops a little bit of oil. Is it best to do this when the engine is cold(apart from burning yourself, obvioulsy)?

 

Doesn't really matter when you do it. As you mentioned, cold is obviously safer. Personally I would do it cold. And the oil has settled into the sump at that point. I wouldn't run that engine for anything other than a short time without the spring anyway.
I certainly wouldn't ride it, but that's just me!