Author Topic: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis  (Read 1796 times)

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Offline AshimotoK0

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750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« on: May 10, 2009, 02:10:00 AM »
My '69 framed UK K0 has a severely cracked Airbox  and I am trying to do a strong repair on it. The rubbers were so hard that you can see deep rub marks in the plastic 'intersection' from where the hard rubbers have abraded the plastic. I am going to obviously get a new set from David Silvers. I had the old ones analysed and was told that they are in fact made prom plasticized PVC material which really surprises me as I thought they would be made from a petrol resistant rubber mateial. Does anyone know what the new Honda Genuine Part ones are made from? The styrene plastic the airbox is made from is also a rubbish material to use but there again I suppose the CB750 was 'rushed' into production in a short time. I know I should really use a repro K0 airbox or fit a K2 type but I want to keep as standard as possible. Better get the painter to keep a bit of paint spare!!
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2009, 05:17:24 AM »
That's good information, thanks!

I've long suspected that the airbox boots were made of a different material from the carb boots, they decay in slightly different ways and the airbox boots shrink considerably more with age.

Sorry, no idea what the new OEM ones are made of but this post has me thinking that a list of which parts are made of which materials would make a nice addition to the FAQ.

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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2009, 06:37:40 AM »
I can get the analysis done on any rubber/plastic parts done and when I get a new airbox 'rubber' from David Silver I will havea sliver off it analysed.
BTW I think the LPM repros are made from polyurethane. Again I have I  have a lower airbox repro part which I can have analysed.
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Offline Johnie

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2009, 07:58:36 AM »
I put new Honda brand air box rubbers on my KO & K1 and both just appear and feel like a soft rubber to me.  They all fit very nice.
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Offline 754

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2009, 08:07:02 AM »
I dont have an early airbox in front of me, but have wondered why, nobody has made the airboxes of metal. Seems to me that even if just cut and welded together (as opposed to stamped) they might be worth doing, especially if you knew they would not crack.. ever..

 They would look pretty cool in Polished Aluminum..
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 08:35:14 AM by 754 »
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Offline mystic_1

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2009, 08:29:59 AM »
I've been toying with the idea of using aluminum velocity stacks in place of the rubber intake boots with a stock air box.  Just need a good sealing ring between the stack and the box, which I think I can make out of some old intake boots.

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Offline HondaMan

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2009, 08:48:43 AM »
I dont have an early airbox in front of me, but have wondered why, nobody has made the airboxes of metal. Seems to me that even if just cut and welded together (as opposed to stamped) they might be worth doing, especially if you knew they would not crack.. ever..

 They would look pretty cool in Polished Aluminum..

Particularly in the case of the K0 type of box, with its smooth sides, sheet metal would be a great idea, if pricey. The originals were made of plastic, I think it was just styrene plastic, and cracking was quite common. When a Vetter fairing with lowers was fitted (which concentrates the heat right back onto the box), they warped and cracked in a single summer of touring, back in the day. The 'fix' back then was to fit the K1 box instead, because it was a better plastic material. For example, my K2 (actually made with a K1 engine and K1 airbox, mid-production stuff) has the OEM airbox on it still, and a Vetter with lowers for most of its life: the forward side of this box is slightly warped forward, and that's all.

But, the K0 boxes are SO handsome, with those smooth sides. Hmmm...I know a good machine shop and welders, and a good sheet metal shop, and have access to a sheet metal brake and punch....anyone have an old K0 airbox to loan, so I could CAD up the parts? Aluminum might be too soft and not crack-resistant, which would also be the original reason for not using metal, BTW (vibration cracks). But, if someone wanted to pay the $$, a nice stainless resto-shaped box could be built, parting in the same fasion, etc. Are the Honda rubber boots to the carbs still available K0 style? That velocity stack inside of them is very important to the bike's performance (on ALL of the 750/500/550 engines).

To avoid cracking, the upper hanger mounts much be grommeted in a soft-durometer rubber. This would prevent the cracks. On a production bike that sold for $1695, this cost would have been prohibitive for Japan back then, who must import every drop of oil and every pound of steel.
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Offline 754

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2009, 08:55:35 AM »
6061 Al in ) temper is pretty formable, can be heat treated after welding and be roughly same strength or higher that mild steel.

Seems to work for a few thousand hours on highly stressed parts on aircraft..
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Offline Don R

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2009, 09:14:45 AM »
I was thinking along the same lines. With the new cad sheetmetal equipment and plasma cutters it would seem to be a simple project. After one was made more would be easy.
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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2009, 09:21:51 AM »
Nice thought everyone but I reckon the LPM K0 repro airbox looks like it could take some hammer too. Will have to check on the chemical resistance though. And I hear rumours that it is slightly too narrow C/W stock airbox.
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Offline 736cc

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2009, 09:30:44 AM »
K0 repop smooth airboxes and sidecovers are same pliable material as K1 and up airboxes, they can flex w/o cracking

Offline GammaFlat

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2009, 10:03:37 AM »

Hmmm...I know a good machine shop and welders, and a good sheet metal shop, and have access to a sheet metal brake and punch....anyone have an old K0 airbox to loan, so I could CAD up the parts?

I have a complete lower section and part of the upper section (K0 airbox).  I'd be happy to ship it to you if you like.

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Offline AshimotoK0

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 12:53:52 PM »
Fed up with K0 originality, standard airbox and it's cracks. Bought a repro one from LPM (the guys who run it are John and Martyn - very pleasant to deal with)
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Offline markb

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Re: 750K0 Airbox 'Rubber' Chemical Analysis
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 01:23:22 PM »
I've gotten two of the LPM's.  They're plenty durable.  I like them, no issues with either one.
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