Topic: Fried Electrical w/ 12 Volt Jumper: HELP

[rowdybraude]

Hi - just need some quick help from someone knowledgeable. 1976 CB550K. I hooked up a 12 volt jumper to it (don't ask - confusion with neighbor) and smoke began billowing from the electrical.

I'm planning a weekend to do replacements: what parts should I plan on replacing?

Any help would be appreciated.

RowdyBraude
Maplewood, NJ

[martino1972]

do you mean you hooked up jumper cables from a car to your bike or a jumper wire somewhere on your bike..

[rowdybraude]

do you mean you hooked up jumper cables from a car to your bike or a jumper wire somewhere on your bike..

Well...basically. It was a portable jumper. I thought the guy was giving me one for bikes and had enough sense to know that one for cars wouldn't work (since he has a bike). So, my fault for not checking.

I've done stupider things.

[GammaFlat]

Jumping a bike where the voltage spikes up (above 15 volts) can burn up some or all of your rectifier.  The smoke probably came from wiring.  Take a close look at your wiring to see if you have any burned through insulation. 

You might get lucky on that but you likely burned up your rectifier.  With a soldering iron, 2 rectifiers, some kind of heat sink and a little "know how" you can build a replacement for dirt (under $10).  There are threads on how to test your rectifier (perform a search). 

Come back with your results and you'll get plenty of help on options. 

[TwoTired]

Hooking up those jumpers with reverse polarity will kill the rectifier/wiring every time.

Wires in a bundle that that melt, often take out wires laying next to it, too.

[rowdybraude]

Hooking up those jumpers with reverse polarity will kill the rectifier/wiring every time.

Wires in a bundle that that melt, often take out wires laying next to it, too.

There was definite melting of wires. I was hoping: a) the damage might be isolated to a few components that would be effected and b) I would be able to buy new / used versions of those components and do a swap.

What I don't have time to do is hunt for and replace pieces of damaged components.

What do you guys think: can I do a buy and swap? Other than the rectifier, what would I be swapping?

[fuzzybutt]

plan on getting a new/good used harness and a regulator/rectifier.

[Spanner 1]

Really hard to ans. your questions...was the jump connected in reverse polarity?, was the ignition 'on' ?.....
If ign. off ( hopefully) you will need to un-wrap the loom between solenoid/ fuses/rectifier and check for meltedness of the Red/White/Green and Black ( if is one ) wires.......
plus change rectifier.......

[TwoTired]

When the rectifier is connected with reverse polarity the energy flows through the stator windings from the battery terminals.  All wires between battery and stator can be damaged, along with the rectifier in the pathway.  It's possible the stator can be damaged, as well, but usually the bike wiring behaves as a fuse and parts, before the stator wiring insulation melts.  The stock regulator is usually undamaged, as it is not subject to over current under these conditions.  However, if you have an electronic version replacement, it can be internally damaged.

I bought 76 CB550 F from the bone yard with the electrical fried.  I suspect it was jumped with the wrong polarity.   Worst burned part was the green wire that goes from rectifier through the main harness up to the the point at the coils where it connects to frame.  The rectifier actually was good (may have been replaced in an attempt to fix it before it was abandoned).
Anyway, the block connectors in the path were also melted and I had to replace them along with several wires in the main harness (which I had to unwrap to access).  Anything with melted insulation was replaced.  I had a spares bike that robbed the needed parts from.  Then the harness a was re-taped after the repair, and all has been well since then.  I think most would be hard pressed to find what was repaired.
Anyway, it works fine now, and has for quite some time (10 years-ish).

Funny you don't have time to fix it.  Hurried for time is often what smokes these bikes in the first place.  Time is all it cost me to fix my 550.  I suppose you could pay someone else to do the repair.  It was a long time ago, but, I'd estimate it took between 4-8 hrs.  I wasn't in much of hurry, being a hobby, and all.

Cheers,

[GammaFlat]

Dang dude.  You have some of the finest on the forum (self excluded) giving you the "skinny".  You don't know how good you have it.  Follow their advice. 

[vames]

Original poster hasn't yet admitted that he reversed the polarity (which he must have because those jumper boxes are basically auxilliary batteries), says he's not willing to take the time properly needed to fix it, and wants a super easy answer of plug and play parts that he should change. None of those things bode well for someone who wants to maintain a 33-year old bike.

[rowdybraude]

When the rectifier is connected with reverse polarity the energy flows through the stator windings from the battery terminals.  All wires between battery and stator can be damaged, along with the rectifier in the pathway.  It's possible the stator can be damaged, as well, but usually the bike wiring behaves as a fuse and parts, before the stator wiring insulation melts.  The stock regulator is usually undamaged, as it is not subject to over current under these conditions.  However, if you have an electronic version replacement, it can be internally damaged.

I bought 76 CB550 F from the bone yard with the electrical fried.  I suspect it was jumped with the wrong polarity.   Worst burned part was the green wire that goes from rectifier through the main harness up to the the point at the coils where it connects to frame.  The rectifier actually was good (may have been replaced in an attempt to fix it before it was abandoned).
Anyway, the block connectors in the path were also melted and I had to replace them along with several wires in the main harness (which I had to unwrap to access).  Anything with melted insulation was replaced.  I had a spares bike that robbed the needed parts from.  Then the harness a was re-taped after the repair, and all has been well since then.  I think most would be hard pressed to find what was repaired.
Anyway, it works fine now, and has for quite some time (10 years-ish).

Funny you don't have time to fix it.  Hurried for time is often what smokes these bikes in the first place.  Time is all it cost me to fix my 550.  I suppose you could pay someone else to do the repair.  It was a long time ago, but, I'd estimate it took between 4-8 hrs.  I wasn't in much of hurry, being a hobby, and all.

Cheers,

Thanks - I really appreciate the detailed response. A newborn and a four year old eat up all of my time these days, but I've got an open weekend coming up when they'll be out of town and I'm hoping to use that time to fix my mistake.

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks if I was successful.

[rowdybraude]

Original poster hasn't yet admitted that he reversed the polarity (which he must have because those jumper boxes are basically auxilliary batteries), says he's not willing to take the time properly needed to fix it, and wants a super easy answer of plug and play parts that he should change. None of those things bode well for someone who wants to maintain a 33-year old bike.

Wow.

[GammaFlat]

Original poster hasn't yet admitted that he reversed the polarity (which he must have because those jumper boxes are basically auxilliary batteries), says he's not willing to take the time properly needed to fix it, and wants a super easy answer of plug and play parts that he should change. None of those things bode well for someone who wants to maintain a 33-year old bike.

Wow.

Understand there might be some sensitivity.  This forum is a goldmine.  There is no better place to get unbelievable support from folks who have a passion for these bikes.  When a new member happens along and asks for something, they'll likely get it whether it's information, advice, parts... whatever.  Any "pre-declaration" of terms like "just need some quick help from someone knowledgeable." or "What I don't have time to do is..." will possibly rub some the wrong way.  You very well might not have time but whether you do or don't does not change how "broke" your bike is. 

I assume your "Wow." remark is pushback from the Vames post.  You can do a lot worse and still get (some) help here but you're better off paying attention to the message and being humble.  Maybe I took it wrong.   

Regards,

John

[vames]

Didn't mean to upset. Just wanted to point out that fixes for these bikes (or any old vehicles) usually come with some iterative trouble-shooting process and a bit of time. I've jumped these bikes with car jumper boxes and car batteries -- your neighbor didn't make a mistake -- the same thing works for a bike or a car. If stuff started melting and burning, you hooked it up backward or you had a big electrical problem to begin with (short? maybe that's why the battery was dead in the first place). Keep in mind that most of the people on the forum come right out and admit even the possibility that they made mistakes, which helps others greatly to diagnose their problems.

It's important to know exactly what happened. You hooked up the jumper -- how long? Did it start smoking immediately? did you try starting the bike? Where'd the smoke come from? If you weren't hooked up too long on the jumper, you may get by with just a new rectifier (ask me how I know). Otherwise, you should follow TT's advice and track all the places that could have gotten fried.

If you need a rectifier, I have an old working one in a box of parts that you can have for the price of postage or coming to midtown Manhattan during the day to pick it up.

[rowdybraude]

Didn't mean to upset. Just wanted to point out that fixes for these bikes (or any old vehicles) usually come with some iterative trouble-shooting process and a bit of time. I've jumped these bikes with car jumper boxes and car batteries -- your neighbor didn't make a mistake -- the same thing works for a bike or a car. If stuff started melting and burning, you hooked it up backward or you had a big electrical problem to begin with (short? maybe that's why the battery was dead in the first place). Keep in mind that most of the people on the forum come right out and admit even the possibility that they made mistakes, which helps others greatly to diagnose their problems.

It's important to know exactly what happened. You hooked up the jumper -- how long? Did it start smoking immediately? did you try starting the bike? Where'd the smoke come from? If you weren't hooked up too long on the jumper, you may get by with just a new rectifier (ask me how I know). Otherwise, you should follow TT's advice and track all the places that could have gotten fried.

If you need a rectifier, I have an old working one in a box of parts that you can have for the price of postage or coming to midtown Manhattan during the day to pick it up.

Hi - thanks for the note. I feel even dumber now that I know I hooked it up backwards. That part of folks' reply I missed, but I never underestimate my ability to make dumb mistakes that have prolonged consequences.

Smoke came from rider's left side under the side cover. I saw melted wires and need to look more closely. It was hooked up maybe 5-8 seconds.

Does anyone know if a 1978 CB550k wiring harness would go into a '76? They have slightly different part numbers (last two digits) but all of the years seem to have those two digits as different.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[TwoTired]

For a direct swap, you need a harness from a 76 K model only.  Others can be made to fit with modifications.  But, those modifications are likely more extensive than repairing what you have.
The 77-78 K models used a single block connector for each bar control group, for example.  You would have to change those for old on the 78 harness, or update the connector for your existing bar controls.

[rowdybraude]

For a direct swap, you need a harness from a 76 K model only.  Others can be made to fit with modifications.  But, those modifications are likely more extensive than repairing what you have.
The 77-78 K models used a single block connector for each bar control group, for example.  You would have to change those for old on the 78 harness, or update the connector for your existing bar controls.

Thanks TT - I'll keep shopping for a '76.

[danielcgordon]

I'm new to the forum, bikes and mechanics...I'm pretty sure I screwed up!!!

I had my battery hooked up to a running car. It was hooked up with the correct polarity that I know for sure. It started smoking really bad and I had no clue as to why or where it was coming from. I re hooked it up and saw that it came from the same place that started this thread.

I know it melted the red wire, it was all I looked at since I just got my very first bike home for the very first time and tried to start it like it did yesterday when I purchased it!!

It was probably on there 30 seconds the first time and less than 10 the second.

I ordered a repair manual today from ebay (not only for this mistake).

Any advice as to where I should start to look?

Completely clueless but eager to learn and take well to instructions!!!

Dan

74 550

ps thats a 74k correct?

[GammaFlat]

Manuals online here: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=426.0

Go see the rectifier test as well (TwoTired): http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=2229.0

[danielcgordon]

What next?

The battery is charged, I put in a new sub harness, new rectifier...still nothing. I was wondering about the solenoid because the battery leads right to it? All of the other wires seem fine and in tact.

Thank you in advance for any insight.

Dan

[TwoTired]

You should expand on   "...nothing".

Not much we can about an entire bike that has vanished.

Not charging?
Won't start?
Lights won't come on?
Won't stir your coffee?
You can't find your multimeter to report voltages?


As a (WA) guess, follow the Green wires to where it attaches to the frame.

[danielcgordon]

It doesn't start. There are no lights, no clicking. Like I said the battery is charged. I don't evn know what to begin to look at.

It will still stir my coffee which is a plus!! : D

[TwoTired]

Find the fuse box under the left side cover and replace the main fuse?

On the solenoid where the two big cables go, you should also find a small wire and ring lug (Red).  This is where the rest of the bike gets power from the battery.  Check that wire (goes to key switch after going through the fuse).

I still think you should check the Green wire connection to frame.

You do have the wire diagram from the Honda Shop Manual, right?

[danielcgordon]

Yes I do, I will do that when I get home tonight. Thank you. Pardon my novice level. What am I looking for with the wire? It isn't melted, no corrosion, nothing bare or loose. How do I check it?

Thanks again for your response.