Author Topic: Flying J CB550 Cafe Racer Magazine.  (Read 181828 times)

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Offline Tintop

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #225 on: December 28, 2010, 04:10:03 PM »
Can't answer that one.  Haven't delved into them that far.  PM the member here who makes them.

When it comes time to do the race bike's electrics, I'm going to take a serious look.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline TwoTired

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #226 on: December 28, 2010, 07:19:47 PM »
TwoTired doesnt totally convince me because he is a textbook kinda guy and anything besides stock setup rubs him the wrong way.

Not true.  I simply recognize that there was WAY WAY more thought, engineering, and attention paid to the stock configuration and components in their final product than nearly all the home brewers in this forum.  "Stock" has been proven by the many many original sales and miles driven by the marque.  Even the few engineers in this forum admit that their changes were often emotionally driven rather than fact or science driven.

90 + % of the forum members base "upgrades"/changes upon external looks, and disregard any test parameters or specifications. (If they even bother to test the final assemblage in any way.)  These are often the same members who get their hackles up when I question the technical merit of such changes.  I suspect it is because they have no quantifiable data or reason for these changes other than "I wanna", and only hear a "nay-sayer" against their desires.  Others have their goals deeply rooted on what is perceived as being "popular" or acceptable by the latest "in thing".
Many customizers often shun causal and predictive engineering 'cause it doesn't naturally look eye pleasing, or they simply can't comprehend how things actually work with regard to physics.

I am an afficionado of well engineered and proven performance machines.  Certainly, "Stock" qualifies, as it's operational and functional envelope is fairly well known/understood. 
Simply copying a style, fad, or a facade of a race machine (without performance credentials), does not qualify as an "improvement" it's just change for change sake.

I can appreciate the skill it may take to weld a graceful shaped shark fin into the middle of a stainless steel water slide.  But, unless you only plan to run water down the slide, without people, its final functional benefit is in serious doubt.

You are not the first to call me a "stock purist".  You are all wrong about that.  I simply see very few examples of actual functional or performance improvements made to these bikes.  Certainly it is rare to see actual proof that a change is beneficial.  Most are simply "changed", with no other "benefit" other than personal aesthetics and it's clearly about how the machine looks when parked.  (Seems like a waste of a functional machine, to me.  ;D )  I am, of course, speaking about the end product of the project.  What makes any change to the bike more valuable than the bike itself is the knowledge gained during the project.  For that, I forgive the loss of the host machine, even though it is lamentable.  But, how else can you measure success without quantifiable test data?  How much of that have you seen in this forum?  Is simply "changing, rearranging parts" an admirable skill that counts greatly toward knowledge gained?  Certainly "hobbies" can have goals other than "improvement".  That's ok by me, too.  Just don't proclaim that anything done by a hobbyist is automatically an improvement to be copied universally.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #227 on: December 28, 2010, 08:06:11 PM »
 ;D
I love it. I agree with you TT that most if not all changes from stock do not produce a better performing bike. But some people (not you ) do make changes based not on performance but on looks. The aesthetics of a bike is important to a lot of people. Here are the 2 extremes, Best all around performing bike but ugly, or Supper cool looking bike that doesnt even roll! We have seen those on here. I myself am somewhere in between. The way my bike looks is important to me. I have looked at lots of bikes over the past 3 years since i started riding. From those bikes i have come up with an idea in my head as to what MY bike should look like. Seeing that nobody sells that bike i will build it. As for performance, I want it to roll.  :D  No, more then that. I want my bike to perform well. My end goal TT, is to build my bike the way i want while making those changes as best possible to loose as little performance as possible. I guess you could say that stock performance would be my benchmark, as far as performance goes. That is kind of my philosophy on it. I meant no offense to you and i understand your point of view. I think what we place value on are two very different things. But i do have a few questions for you.
A) Are you following my thread despite the facade of a race machine im building?
or
B)Do you do a search every day for "TwoTired" to see if anybody has referenced you?
or
C) Do you read every post on this forum?
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline TwoTired

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #228 on: December 29, 2010, 01:09:29 AM »
When you post in a thread, you see any thread changes when you push the "Show new replies to your posts" button at the top of page.  Some time ago, you asked me to look at your thread and provide some information.  I did.  And now, whenever your threads changes, I see the update.

Anyway, that is how I saw your proclamation of my beliefs, and felt it necessary to correct them.

I hope you enjoy your bike, whatever it becomes.

Cheers,
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #229 on: December 29, 2010, 07:57:20 AM »
So i have done a little looking around and sent out a few emails and recieved a few replies. I am still trying to figure these things out but Here is the gist of what i learned,and to put it in understandable terms, it sounds like to run the A123 batteries correctly they need proper charging. They work well with the R/C community because they run the battery down and then put it on a charger that provides the correct "charging algorithm". The a123 batteries pack a lot of punch for a small battery so to get that energy back into a cell requires the same "punch". So trickle charging does not work on these, they need a higher voltage until they are full and then the power needs to be shut off, something along those lines. One website said that the optimum charge voltage was 3.8v. Multiply that by the 4 batteries and your looking at 15.2 volts. If our bikes can charge at 15.2 volts then we can charge the batteries. If you have a voltage less then that the cell wont fully charge. Anyway if you want to try and figure it out go ahead but basicly what i was told was that if you want to run 4 batteries on our bikes you need a Battery Management System (BMS). What that does is it acts like the charger that the R/C guys use at home, charging the battery and then shutting off when they are full. So far thats what i got. these 4 cell packs work great on drag bikes because you use it and then charge it at home on a charger not using the bikes system. Im sure you can run them on a daily rider bike but i question the longevity of the battery using the incorrect charging system. And to me these batteries are still to expensive to just throw away after a little while.
I still like the idea, the power in such a small battery, but i will keep looking for one with a BMS system before i buy.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #230 on: December 29, 2010, 08:07:18 AM »
Need something like this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/PCB-6-Cells-LiFePO4-Battery-Pack-/260390761883?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ca07fb59b#ht_2310wt_901

Would it work for my batteries run in series? Im not sure but i think i need one that works not like its charging a 3.3v volt battery but a 13.2v battery.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #231 on: December 29, 2010, 08:16:49 AM »
Ok found the 4 cell one. Im going to call when they open and find out if this will work for our application.
http://www.all-battery.com/protectioncircuitmodulefor3cellslifepo4batterypack-2.aspx
What is the charging output of our bikes? TT said in his post that it was 14.5 max. That is enough to charge them. I wonder if i can get more voltage out of it with my after market Regulator.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2010, 08:19:32 AM by ffjmoore »

Offline HalfFastMoto

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #232 on: December 29, 2010, 08:49:33 AM »
Wow, nice and small. 

Unfortunately with a "Charging balancing current (mA)" of only 60mA I'm not sure the charge rate will be sufficient to cover the discharge of a start cycle.  Do you have a link to the batteries you plan on using?  There should be something in the spec for the battery regarding min & max charge current & voltages.
-brad

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The appropriate number of bikes is "1" more!

Offline JAG

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #233 on: December 29, 2010, 03:11:38 PM »
Better late than never...

Subscribed.
Cafe Racing is mainly a matter of taste. It is an atavistic mentality, a peculiar mix of low style, high speed, pure dumbness, and overweening commitment to the Cafe Life and all its dangerous pleasures. I am a Cafe Racer myself, on some days - and it is one of my finest addictions. ~H. S. Thompson~

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #234 on: January 02, 2011, 07:16:34 PM »
So after a 45 min chat with a tech from tenergy im getting closer to figuring out how to correctly run the LiFePO4 batteries. The optimum charging rate of the batteries is 14.5v so that works out perfect. The only issue im running into is that the board only has a 30A discharge capacity. The starter takes 120A so the board wont work for that. My idea is to run the starter direct off the battery pack ,since its only a temporary ciruit, and then run the rest of the bike through the BMS to control charging and protect of the batteries. I need to find out what battery will be able to support the 120A starter and not damage the Cells.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #235 on: January 03, 2011, 09:11:39 AM »
Anybody watching, what are your thoughts on front fenders and fork braces? Im not sure what im going to do for a front tire cover. Im pretty sure im going to have a fork brace made but not sure if ill run a front fender or not.

Im getting frustrated not having my seat. It puts a huge hold on almost everything, so im going to try and focus on the front end and get the brakes and front end wiring squared away. i think im going to run all my iring through this kind of sleve to keep it clean. How about Pink?

Offline Tintop

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #236 on: January 03, 2011, 09:39:13 AM »
Kind of liked the Tartan. ;) :)
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Roach

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #237 on: January 03, 2011, 10:12:13 AM »
that Tartan is bad ass but it takes a true man to rock the pink
1978 CB550K Cafe Racer

Offline Zaipai

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #238 on: January 05, 2011, 05:35:27 AM »
Anybody watching, what are your thoughts on front fenders and fork braces? Im not sure what im going to do for a front tire cover. Im pretty sure im going to have a fork brace made but not sure if ill run a front fender or not.

Im getting frustrated not having my seat. It puts a huge hold on almost everything, so im going to try and focus on the front end and get the brakes and front end wiring squared away. i think im going to run all my iring through this kind of sleve to keep it clean. How about Pink?


It would depend on frame color and tank and side cover colors..

.: Scott :.
Its my Avatar..

75 CB550F  | 


Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #239 on: January 07, 2011, 11:14:24 AM »
Recieved some news today from my tank guy. Hes feeling better and had made progress on my seat. Unfortunately we had a miscommunication. When i said i wanted the seat to match the tank they did exactly that. Including the knee dents.  :( so i emailed him and hopefully he can bang those out.

The picture is not my frame so that why it doesnt fit right.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #240 on: January 08, 2011, 01:54:20 PM »
Well i chopped the front rubber mounts off the frame. Im going to move the tank back an inch and down about an inch. Thats as low as i can get the tank. It will have about 2mm between the tank and the front down tubes. Seat builder said he will talk to the guy working on my seat and see if they can bang out the dents or if they will have to start over. >:( Ill find out monday.

Offline tweakin

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #241 on: January 08, 2011, 02:27:35 PM »
Yes!  I am so happy to hear this, it will look great with the tank re positioned.  Looking forward to seeing it.

Well i chopped the front rubber mounts off the frame. Im going to move the tank back an inch and down about an inch. Thats as low as i can get the tank. It will have about 2mm between the tank and the front down tubes. Seat builder said he will talk to the guy working on my seat and see if they can bang out the dents or if they will have to start over. >:( Ill find out monday.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #242 on: January 08, 2011, 02:28:41 PM »
Im not sure its going to help much but ill take what i can get. It wont be as low as i would like.

Offline Tintop

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #243 on: January 08, 2011, 04:39:15 PM »
Im not sure its going to help much but ill take what i can get. It wont be as low as i would like.

Sounds like a good move.  Look forward to seeing the result.
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Bluegreen

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #244 on: January 16, 2011, 02:44:33 AM »
Eager to see how this turns out.

Side note. I have been using the 4 cell A123 batteries for about four months now and haven't had any problems.

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #245 on: January 16, 2011, 02:47:52 AM »
Which batterie are you using? how many amps?

Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #246 on: January 16, 2011, 01:10:37 PM »
Have one of the mounts welded on. Looks a little better but thats as low as i can get it.


Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #247 on: January 16, 2011, 02:59:33 PM »
Look what i got!

Offline Zaipai

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #248 on: January 16, 2011, 05:40:33 PM »
Nice.. another cafe project, or going for stock rebuild or some where in between..?

.: Scott :.
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75 CB550F  | 


Offline Flying J

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Re: FFJMOORE 76CB550 Atomic #13
« Reply #249 on: January 16, 2011, 10:59:34 PM »
I wanted my next build to be a hard tail but the 350 is not a good candidate for that so it will be another cafe but a different style then the one i am currently building. I have plans to build my own tank. We will see how that goes.

I was messing with the tank on the 550 today and realized its not sitting correctly on the frame. If you look at the last pictures i posted you can see that the gap between the tank and frame at the back of the tank is different on each side. Also the distance between the motor and the bottom of the tank is different. So i have to re-do my forward mounts after i tweek the rear mount so that the tank is sitting level.